Farsight comes clean on issues with 360 platform

[Mike Reitmeyer]

http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/2189-Farsight-comes-clean-on-issues-with-360-platform

From Facebook:

There are unfortunately some unique challenges with the Xbox 360 platform. First, Microsoft is the only 1st party who charges for each game patch (even if the purpose of the patch is to add additional DLC that will make money for them). That means we have no choice but to wait and submit several table packs in the same patch. Second, Microsoft refuses to have a direct relationship with XBLA developers- they insist that we go through a publisher. This makes it more difficult for us to make money on 360, but also makes it harder to have a dialog with Microsoft about anything. We understand your frustration, and we are even more frustrated than you are. We've made a large investment in licenses and development so when we can't make money on a platform by selling tables it hurts us a lot more than it hurts our customers. The 360 is one of our favorite platforms to play pinball on- it's a shame things have to be so complicated!

We are working out the above issues. As soon as we get that solved DLC should be out.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

If FarSight can get the PC version released, I for one will no longer care what the frequency of the 360 DLC releases is. I think a lot of people will feel the same way, either abandoning the 360 altogether for the PC or playing both, preferring the console but jumping on the PC to get their new table fix. At the moment, Greenlight appears to be the fastest way of getting there.

So if you have problems with the 360 release schedule, and if you want to have the option to play on PC instead either permanently or temporarily until the 360 mess gets sorted, the rational response would be to encourage everyone you know to vote up TPA on Greenlight, even if you don't feel FarSight "deserves" it for whatever reason.

 

[Richard B]

Us 360 users are just going to have to get used to getting everything later than everyone else. That's the way it's always been anyway. At least there's a good reason for it this time.

 

[Brandon Debes]

getting everything later than everyone else

I don't care about this at all. We're talking about decades old pinball tables. Who cares when we get them, as long as we eventually get them and they work well. That's all I care about. I will be so bummed if FarSight throw their hands up and stop bothering to battle with Microsoft.

 

[Richard B]

I don't care about this at all. We're talking about decades old pinball tables. Who cares when we get them, as long as we eventually get them and they work well. That's all I care about. I will be so bummed if FarSight throw their hands up and stop bothering to battle with Microsoft.

Agreed. If people keep complaining, and boycott 360 content until they're released more frequently, that will help guarantee that FS will abandon support.

 

[xNiCeGuYx]

I am sure FS will find a solution for the problem in the near future. That's what I hope at least.
Maybe greedy MS can lower the costs for them?!

 

[Nik Barbour]

If FarSight can get the PC version released, I for one will no longer care what the frequency of the 360 DLC releases is. I think a lot of people will feel the same way, either abandoning the 360 altogether for the PC or playing both, preferring the console but jumping on the PC to get their new table fix. At the moment, Greenlight appears to be the fastest way of getting there.

So if you have problems with the 360 release schedule, and if you want to have the option to play on PC instead either permanently or temporarily until the 360 mess gets sorted, the rational response would be to encourage everyone you know to vote up TPA on Greenlight, even if you don't feel FarSight "deserves" it for whatever reason.

I'd love to have the option to jump to PC, but my 6 yr old laptop, probably couldn't take it. (Athlon dual core 1.7ghz / graphics card would be OK though).

Even if it could, I wouldn't. I want to play TPA on the Xbox I shelled out £150 for, purely to play pinball on, this being because, at the time my Older Android was struggling (Ryan has since extracted Android performance miracles).
My problem isn't with MS. Although greedy, their policies have stood for years and (to my limited MS knowledge) apply to everyone. Its disappointment that Farsight are guilty of either Incompetence (in not seeing this coming), or worse, pure greed in deliberately making as many sales as they could before they had to come clean about this issue.
Don't get me wrong, I don't have any issue with the Dev's who post here, Ryan's efforts on the Android Forum are amazing and much appreciated.
I simply have reduced respect and trust for Farsight - I won't support or assist further until they outline their xbox dlc proposal clearly and officially.

 

[Heretic]

If one single platform with its costs over heads and delays starts to threaten the entire project i say burn it at the stake!

I highly doubt farsight is gonna drop their "falgship" version of tpa anytime soon, if this 40k bugger bo is realaisticfor each and every update surely you can understand the delay?

Its your choice nik...but surely your not gonna resist some scared stiff at halloween? Heh

One thing im alittle weary of is the fix a bug break it again stuff mainly on bh for me.

Tis 40k stuff is ****ing insane for any small dev

 

[Nik Barbour]

If one single platform with its costs over heads and delays starts to threaten the entire project i say burn it at the stake!

I highly doubt farsight is gonna drop their "falgship" version of tpa anytime soon, if this 40k bugger bo is realaisticfor each and every update surely you can understand the delay?

Its your choice nik...but surely your not gonna resist some scared stiff at halloween? Heh

One thing im alittle weary of is the fix a bug break it again stuff mainly on bh for me.

Tis 40k stuff is ****ing insane for any small dev

Got Scared Stiff on VP the other day, and a cr@ppy skeleton costume from Asda - so I'm all set mate!

 

[Rudy]

Maybe greedy MS can lower the costs for them?!

No chance, this is the same problem that every developer has to put up with and if Microsoft lowers the amount for a single developper then all hell would break loose.

The most annoying thing about the 40k charge is knowing that deep down, it is a pretty good idea to have. It gives developers two chances to produce a worthy title on their platform before sinking into a solution which will cost more to fix than what they can expect to earn from the entire Xbox Arcade service. We've seen games like Fez with horrific game ending glitches which cannot be fixed because they've already used up their free patches without testing them. If by the end of the two patches the game is still broken then it's a choice of keeping it up (and possibly destroying the studio's reputation when it comes to future games) or removing it from the service.

Unfortunately, the patches with TPA aren't to FIX the game, but to add extra content. But to Microsoft there is no real difference, it's still a significant patch and unless Farsight thinks of a plan that pleases everyone then there's going to be a stalemate.

 

[shutyertrap]

Its disappointment that Farsight are guilty of either Incompetence (in not seeing this coming), or worse, pure greed in deliberately making as many sales as they could before they had to come clean about this issue.

How can you say FarSight is greedy? They offered a game, you bought it. You made the choice to buy an Xbox specifically for their title, not them. Sales could have been horrible with the first release, the game could have gone kaput, and you'd still have exactly what they offered for the price. Don't lay the blame of your Xbox purchase at FarSight's feet. Greed would be asking for your money first so they could make tables for you at a future date. Greed would be saying, buy the tables, without offering you the option to demo the table first. True greed, and we all know game companies like this, would be offering you a basic table and then charging .99 cent micro fees so you could have ambient lighting or improved physics.

And I don't wanna hear that what you did pay for is broken. There is not a single table out right now that is borked to the point of being unplayable. Are there bugs? Yes. Are the vast majority of players able to play around them? You betcha. Do people exploit certain things for ridonkulous scores? Sure do, but who's saying you can't to? Adapt and play what's presented before you. Or don't. Fixes will be, and have already been, put into place. But see, you've pretty much told FarSight you are no longer a customer of theirs. On any format. Or at least until they make official declarations? That is what got them in hot water in the first place! And what, you'll believe them? No, you'll wait until the proof is in the pudding, so you'll still not be a customer of theirs for quite a while. So why should they kowtow to you exactly?

 

[Jeff Strong]

Moved a bunch of posts here from the news thread. Thanks for the heads up, Serenseven.

 

[Nik Barbour]

How can you say FarSight is greedy? They offered a game, you bought it. You made the choice to buy an Xbox specifically for their title, not them. Sales could have been horrible with the first release, the game could have gone kaput, and you'd still have exactly what they offered for the price. Don't lay the blame of your Xbox purchase at FarSight's feet. Greed would be asking for your money first so they could make tables for you at a future date. Greed would be saying, buy the tables, without offering you the option to demo the table first. True greed, and we all know game companies like this, would be offering you a basic table and then charging .99 cent micro fees so you could have ambient lighting or improved physics.

And I don't wanna hear that what you did pay for is broken. There is not a single table out right now that is borked to the point of being unplayable. Are there bugs? Yes. Are the vast majority of players able to play around them? You betcha. Do people exploit certain things for ridonkulous scores? Sure do, but who's saying you can't to? Adapt and play what's presented before you. Or don't. Fixes will be, and have already been, put into place. But see, you've pretty much told FarSight you are no longer a customer of theirs. On any format. Or at least until they make official declarations? That is what got them in hot water in the first place! And what, you'll believe them? No, you'll wait until the proof is in the pudding, so you'll still not be a customer of theirs for quite a while. So why should they kowtow to you exactly?

I didn't say they were greedy.
I said they were either incompetent, or greedy.
I don't know which one it is. And I can't think of another reason to explain how the handling of xbox dlc has been done (and I would welcome other suggestions, if you can clear Farsight in this - I'd love to forgive them personally).

The incompetence route pretty much explains itself.

The greed route (just to define this) would be Farsight, using the Xbox as the lead development platform as we know they do (I believe Xbox is easier or more friendly to develop on, its in their interest to use this platform - correct me if this is wrong). Then realising they couldn't comply with MS's strict rules and patching policy pre release, but despite having promised regular dlc, they would think.... Sack it, release the initial tables, use our free patch after 2 or 3 months, avoid all questions for a further 2-3 months, then finally come clean at the last minute before another dlc was expected to be released, having made as many sales as they could before they would have to start laying out 40k lumps. Sound Familiar?
I meant greed (or maybe dishonesty is a more accurate term) from a point of, knowingly releasing TPA with regular update promises, knowing it couldn't be achieved, then pulling out or coming clean before you have to start laying out the 40K charges. Not from personally exploiting me individually.

Either way, unless another explanation can be made for their handling of this, the 2 explanations I can think of don't enamour me to Farsight, Hence the pulling of support. (again not that my single support will matter to them - before someone points this out)

I don't want to get into a written battle, I'm done on this - and I expect to be out-voiced 10 fold (I'm on a fan forum). But I've spoken my mind (and satisfied the Northerner in me).

I am genuinely pleased you are all still getting as much pleasure out of this as you appear to be.
I hope this will be sorted satisfactorily, but, until it is, no more support from me. I wasn't sure if Mike was hinting at some kind of solution in his above post - damn non-disclosure!

I do in its current state, and even if I walk away, will continue to enjoy the TPA tables on Xbox and won't delete all Software out of spite.

I still like the game, despite the bugs, and un-realistic level of difficulty compared to the real thing, otherwise I wouldn't still be here asking for their resolution plans - its just seriously dented my faith in supporting Farsight. The "Please Vote now, to show your support" post tipped me over the edge this morning.

 

[bugged1]

Agreed. If people keep complaining, and boycott 360 content until they're released more frequently, that will help guarantee that FS will abandon support.

im happy to wait as long as the content is before xmas, im sure they will want it out before then too, also the delays are gonna improve the game.
it seems microsoft have issues with the quality of the content so im sure farsight are battling away to sort the bugs and niggles which can only be good, ultimatly xbox is gonna have the best version! im dying to play the new tables myself so i understand peoples frustration but farsight employees are coming on here saying its not far away so whats the problem??,
happy pinballing!

 

[PiN WiZ]

I didn't say they were greedy.
I said they were either incompetent, or greedy.
I don't know which one it is. And I can't think of another reason to explain how the handling of xbox dlc has been done (and I would welcome other suggestions, if you can clear Farsight in this - I'd love to forgive them personally).

The incompetence route pretty much explains itself.

The greed route (just to define this) would be Farsight, using the Xbox as the lead development platform as we know they do (I believe Xbox is easier or more friendly to develop on, its in their interest to use this platform - correct me if this is wrong). Then realising they couldn't comply with MS's strict rules and patching policy pre release, but despite having promised regular dlc, they would think.... Sack it, release the initial tables, use our free patch after 2 or 3 months, avoid all questions for a further 2-3 months, then finally come clean at the last minute before another dlc was expected to be released, having made as many sales as they could before they would have to start laying out 40k lumps. Sound Familiar?
I meant greed (or maybe dishonesty is a more accurate term) from a point of, knowingly releasing TPA with regular update promises, knowing it couldn't be achieved, then pulling out or coming clean before you have to start laying out the 40K charges. Not from personally exploiting me individually.

Either way, unless another explanation can be made for their handling of this, the 2 explanations I can think of don't enamour me to Farsight, Hence the pulling of support. (again not that my single support will matter to them - before someone points this out)

I don't want to get into a written battle, I'm done on this - and I expect to be out-voiced 10 fold (I'm on a fan forum). But I've spoken my mind (and satisfied the Northerner in me).

I am genuinely pleased you are all still getting as much pleasure out of this as you appear to be.
I hope this will be sorted satisfactorily, but, until it is, no more support from me. I wasn't sure if Mike was hinting at some kind of solution in his above post - damn non-disclosure!

I do in its current state, and even if I walk away, will continue to enjoy the TPA tables on Xbox and won't delete all Software out of spite.

I still like the game, despite the bugs, and un-realistic level of difficulty compared to the real thing, otherwise I wouldn't still be here asking for their resolution plans - its just seriously dented my faith in supporting Farsight. The "Please Vote now, to show your support" post tipped me over the edge this morning.

I completely understand your frustration Nik as the Xbox 360 is my main platform of choice and I truley believe this is the overall best version of The Pinball Arcade bar none. Hang in there Nik, all will be fine on the Xbox 360 sooner than you think...trust me!

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

FS has a gun to your head BUY IT! or try this thing called LIFE! No delays just dissatisfaction repeatedly. BEST GAME EVER!! My quarters up. NEXTIES!

 

[Heretic]

FS has a gun to your head BUY IT! or try this thing called LIFE! No delays just dissatisfaction repeatedly. BEST GAME EVER!! My quarters up. NEXTIES!

Yer whats itchy?

 

[shutyertrap]

God I miss lining up corners on the glass, whether it be a pin table or video game. Nothing like putting pressure on the guy playing! 'Course I also hated the a-hole who would line up 8 quarters so he could own the machine for the foreseeable future.

 

[Jeff Strong]

God I miss lining up corners on the glass, whether it be a pin table or video game. Nothing like putting pressure on the guy playing! 'Course I also hated the a-hole who would line up 8 quarters so he could own the machine for the foreseeable future.

Ahhh, the good 'ol days, eh?

 

[Nik Barbour]

God I miss lining up corners on the glass, whether it be a pin table or video game. Nothing like putting pressure on the guy playing! 'Course I also hated the a-hole who would line up 8 quarters so he could own the machine for the foreseeable future.

Was playing some tables on Saturday which were all on free play.
Lots of people playing, and someone at each machine.
So the unspoken rule generally seemed to be, play as much as you want till someone started cueing behind you, then you play the end of your go and it's theirs.
Always some tool though, who'd seen you cueing for 5 mins who would guiltily press start again without making eye contact.