farsite vp and fp

[unclewilly]

just curious about anyones thoughts or opinions.

i know most of you feel vp and fp are faitly sucky programs.

this has been a topic for some friends of mine for a while.

how long do you think it will be before farsite decides to force the closing of the vp and fp communities.

as i see it im predicting about 6 months after the pc release.

as i see it these are the only 2 programs providing any competition for farsite as they are the only other programs offering recreations of real tables, and as they are free and havent paid for any licenses or copyrights farsite would have every right to have c&d orders for offering tables which fs has acquired licenses for

just curious of anyones opinion on this

 

[PiN WiZ]

just curious about anyones thoughts or opinions.

i know most of you feel vp and fp are faitly sucky programs.

this has been a topic for some friends of mine for a while.

how long do you think it will be before farsite decides to force the closing of the vp and fp communities.

as i see it im predicting about 6 months after the pc release.

as i see it these are the only 2 programs providing any competition for farsite as they are the only other programs offering recreations of real tables, and as they are free and havent paid for any licenses or copyrights farsite would have every right to have c&d orders for offering tables which fs has acquired licenses for

just curious of anyones opinion on this

I agree with you that the issue may come up after the release of the PC version of The Pinball Arcade. FarSight won't be able to shut those sites down completely, but they may ask that all tables containing licensed material that they have acquired rights to be removed from those sites.

 

[Kaoru]

Isn't it a bit hypothetical? You're asking the question as if the lawsuit is already set in stone and it's already on its way no matter what.

My advice? If the worry that something might happen really is that big then just take down the tables that are already sold or at least announced off the websites. Even without them there are still plenty of tables than can be recreated (and more than enough that FarSight most probably never will), and apart from that there's more that you can do with VP and FP than just recreating existing tables. Actually I played many original tables on FP, and quite a few of them were really awesome, beating even some of the recreations.

 

[unclewilly]

ashame as they will never be able to license all pinball tables for preservation
and between those 2 communities pretty much all pinball tables have a version

there goes my monster bash pinbot bride of pinbot tables.

 

[SpiffyRob]

VP and FP, and any grey area they might run into between licenses and roms, aren't exactly a valuable target.

The only reason FarSight would go after them is if they think they could get more money out of "gained" sales (people who were/would have been using VP and FP in lieu of TPA) than the lawsuit itself would cost.

Lawsuits are expensive, TPA ain't made of money, and I don't think there's a big enough pie in gained sales.

I think the communities are safe. If FarSight were to do anything, I think you might see them go for the removal of tables they've released, but even that seems like a stretch.

I say all of this as a big VP fan currently in the midst of building a tabletop minipin.

 

[PiN WiZ]

The license holders would be the ones bringing the lawsuit against the site owners, not FarSight.

 

[Gord Lacey]

My hope is that FarSight (and the pinball companies) would see value in VP and FP, and wouldn't try to shut them down, but would look at forming a bond with the community.

A few years ago I was a consultant on the Kids in the Hall DVD release. We came across a site that had all the episodes of the show (recorded from broadcasts) available to download. Broadway Video (owners of the show) wanted to send their lawyers after them. I proposed a different idea; send them a polite email letting them know that the show was coming out on DVD, and ask them if they wouldn't mind removing the episodes they had for download once the season sets were out. The response from the site was one of shock; they couldn't believe that a company would send them a reasonable request instead of sending lawyers after them. They removed all the episodes, and put a post asking people to buy the DVD sets up instead. By taking a soft approach, Broadway Video got the episodes removed AND got promotion of their product.

I think some in the VP and FP community think that the success of The Pinball Arcade will mean the destruction of their groups. I think if FarSight tries to form some kind of bond with those communities, then they'll be more likely to gain allies (and customers).

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

I don't think that FarSight itself would go after VP/FP. There's not much gain there for FarSight (many players of VP/FP would purchase TPA anyway) and there's considerable downside risk in the form of negative publicity.

What could happen is that FarSight's licensors could notice that "hey, FarSight got a license from us and is making us money, so why aren't these other people?". So you wouldn't have FarSight involved at all, just the licenseholders going after VP/FP for unauthorized use of their properties. But that could happen at any time; it's not dependent on the release or even the existence of TPA at all.

 

[SpiffyRob]

Totally agree, Serenseven. I know that VP/FP are actually pretty well-known by a lot of pinball creators, and in many cases, the efforts of those communities are very much encouraged (even if it's only in the "turn a blind eye" sense.)

If a table on TPA was a runaway success, I could see rights-holder eyeing any rule-breaking competition as taking profits away, but I think there's a pretty big chain of events that would need to happen in order for that to get to the point of a C&D. It would be awesome, if the winds blew that way, to see them take the approach that Gord describes.

 

[Dutch Pinball ball]

But will there be a single VP player in the world that does not play pinball arcade?

 

[SpiffyRob]

Have you read the boards at vpforums? There are many people who don't like TPA at all.

 

[Richard B]

All this speculation is moot. This might not be a bad question for Bobby King in the next round.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

I doubt this is a question he would be able to answer, since it would involve FarSight speaking on behalf of its licensors on their potential future actions, which generally isn't a good idea.

 

[Jeff Strong]

i know most of you feel vp and fp are faitly sucky programs.

I wouldn't say "most"....I know a few have made negative comments, but definitely not most.

 

[Ark Malmeida]

I've dabbled in VP before to try out a few tables from my youth that before Farsight and TPA I never thought had a chance of seeing any kind of commercial digital reproduction. I pretty much play games exclusively on the 360 now, but the idea of a cabinet running a pinball simulator definitely appeals to me. I think the key to Farsight and TPA when it comes to the PC is for them to eventually have a PC version out that has a very robust cabinet mode. If they did that, the only VP or FP community members that you would think wouldn't be interested would be those who are against paying for a licensed product.

 

[Dutch Pinball ball]

Have you read the boards at vpforums? There are many people who don't like TPA at all.

No not yet. But why dont they like it?

edit

http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=16705&st=420&start=420

I am reading now, started last page that topic and the first comments i read are ''farsight are genius and the ios version is the best thing after real pinball''

so, its not only negative.

Android version is not as good, but that we already know, its not a negative comment, but a realistic.

I think those guys will love this game as the pinballfans they are.

But maybe i am wrong. Obviously, they want a pc version with full cabinet support.

 

[Heretic]

Farsight going after a community project with no direct income? Id burn my pompoms.

I really enjoy trying out obscure tables still but as far as playability i reckon tpa just wins.

Id say most of farsight have been vp users at one point or another.

I doubt farsight is your new big bad guys

Enough room for everybody right?

Farsight sell offical recreations for money, vp is a passionate hobbyist project, both have a place i say.

As others have said they are a very small company that wouldnt gain from the shut down. I dont believe the userbase entirely overlaps really.

Tpa is an easy offical commerical project

Vp is a somewhat clunky software but with passionate group of pinballers.

If it came to blows like that.

I can see why some people would be worried but i think your jumping at shadows.

I really dont like the idea of the two sides sniping each other lol.

If anything ever did come of this itd leave a bad taste in my mouth n probably money in pocket

 

[Richard B]

I doubt this is a question he would be able to answer, since it would involve FarSight speaking on behalf of its licensors on their potential future actions, which generally isn't a good idea.

Yeah, that would be a wasted question.

 

[Shockman]

Pinball Arcade for the PC will most likely be a Visual Pinball Killer on a table by table basis anyway. However, a license must mean something but if it doesn't, it doesn't, And by doesn't it means for someone else. The tables at VPF may be free, but they are not licensed, downloading is limited, there is an obvious exclusive involved in uploading there, you must pay money to take restrictions off downloads, and members are banned for no good reason. The bulk of the tables there were not even uploaded by the table builders, but by the site without permissions. The Visual Pinball program there is a niche build for cabinets being sold there and no work on bringing back the desktop function Visual Pinball has always had until vpforums.org has ever happened and seems to be taboo. vpforums.org is a commericial business.

 

[DrainoBraino]

VP sucky? Only a few here think that. Personally, I prefer VP to TPA. Ever since I started playing cabinet tables I haven't touched TPA. I would like to, but TPA is so buggy I can't stand it. The VP recreations seem more realistic and less buggy. With VP, I can actually tweak the physics and change the game settings. Also, unclewilly I love your recreations. Thanks.