Feedback and issues on FX3 Williams Pinball Vol. 1 - Release version

[Gorgar]

When playing in Arcade mode, 1 ball, 5 min mode, and the mode where you have to get a certain score in a minute to refresh the time, if you turn off the animations, they turn back on when you start the next game. I can understand it not saving for the next time you open the game, but why do I have to turn it off every time I start a new game in one sitting. Very annoying.

Also, I have the fx turned off on all tables (ball trails and scores), but for some reason on Williams tables (not the regular ones), the scores still pop up whenever you hit a target.

I’m on PS4 btw.

 

[p6800]

I feel nudging is unusable for me with the xbox gamepad. Even if you take it slower, tilting is very close. Double nudging is a no no. And the effect nudging has on the ball is insignificant compared to TPA. Add to that that the ball goes in the wrong direction when nudging, and the fun turns into a long rewiring of the brain...

I think a "Tilt sensitivity - low, normal, high" would be perfect. Plus an "Invert nudge - On/Off", obviously.

 

[shutyertrap]

I feel nudging is unusable for me with the xbox gamepad. Even if you take it slower, tilting is very close. Double nudging is a no no. And the effect nudging has on the ball is insignificant compared to TPA. Add to that that the ball goes in the wrong direction when nudging, and the fun turns into a long rewiring of the brain...

I think a "Tilt sensitivity - low, normal, high" would be perfect. Plus an "Invert nudge - On/Off", obviously.

That's kinda funny, because I always felt the nudging in TPA moved opposite of what I intended! I wound up inverting the nudge there to match Zen. As for the nudge effect, TPA was always way too powerful. Nudge a ball that hard on a real table and you'll tilt. Not to mention the fact you could do the impossible by nudging a ball while it rolled in an open playfield, which was totally unrealistic. Unfortunately TPA wired your brain wrong, so now's the time to "unlearn what you have learned"!

 

[AcadDude]

That's kinda funny, because I always felt the nudging in TPA moved opposite of what I intended! I wound up inverting the nudge there to match Zen. As for the nudge effect, TPA was always way too powerful. Nudge a ball that hard on a real table and you'll tilt. Not to mention the fact you could do the impossible by nudging a ball while it rolled in an open playfield, which was totally unrealistic. Unfortunately TPA wired your brain wrong, so now's the time to "unlearn what you have learned"!

OR, stay with me now. Maybe don't nudge?

 

[shutyertrap]

OR, stay with me now. Maybe don't nudge?

Oh believe me, I’m right there. Especially on an actual machine.

 

[xAzatothx]

Agree about the nudging. On MM I find nudge behaves differently depending where the ball is on the table, up top not much happens but round by the slingshots it's moves too much. Sometimes you can completely change direction of ball which is unnatural. Sometimes the ball appears to bend in the air like there are magnets on the table. Not sure whether just my low FPS causing this or whether others seeing it too.
To hit the castle gate you have to release the ball off the very start of the flipper which doesn't match the last RL table I played.
Overall though really enjoying it but not enjoying the anti TPA ranting that is going on. Hopefully the dust will soon settle and we will be able to make less emotional comparisons.

 

[Jeff Strong]

- Is the nudging the other way around? In TPA, i push the right stick left, the table moves left and the ball goes right. In FX3 it's set as "Invert Nudge ON" from TPA. Have i missed this option somehow?

Just tested on PC and it behaves as it should. If I push the stick left, the table moves to the left and the ball moves right.

Not sure if it's different on consoles. Seems weird if it is.

EDIT:

After testing in practice mode with tilt off, it does actually seem to be backwards

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Just tested on PC and it behaves as it should. If I push the stick left, the table moves to the left and the ball moves right.

Not sure if it's different on consoles. Seems weird if it is.

That's what I'd expect as well and is what feels "natural" to me: I'm pushing on the right edge of the stick (i.e. with my "right hand") and pushing it to the left, so I'd expect both the stick and the "physical object" (i.e. the pinball table) to move to the left. And vice versa. The other way around is just weird.

 

[shutyertrap]

That's what I'd expect as well and is what feels "natural" to me: I'm pushing on the right edge of the stick (i.e. with my "right hand") and pushing it to the left, so I'd expect both the stick and the "physical object" (i.e. the pinball table) to move to the left. And vice versa. The other way around is just weird.

And yet isn't it in TPA that if you push the stick to the left, the it's as if you pushed the left side of the table with your left hand? I think that's why I had to inverse it in TPA because it made no sense, whereas in Zen it behaves exactly as I would think.

 

[Citizen]

TPA had it correct, directionally speaking. Pushing left moved the table left (which means using your right hand to push the right side of the machine to move it left), which moved the ball to the right.

It was you inversion guys who were doing it backwards. Monsters, the lot of you.

Unfortunately as of right now FX3's (and Zaccaria's) nudging also feels inverted by default on Switch. I hope they add the option to reverse it to the way it should be.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Interesting.

So the table visually moves the wrong direction as well?

 

[Citizen]

Not visually, no. So it's like the table is moving left but the ball is also moving left. Which is messing with my brain.

Or maybe my orientation is just messed up. I probably shouldn't try figuring stuff like this out right after waking up.

 

[Kolchak357]

An invert nudge option would make everyone happy. I actually like it ass backward on digital. I know it’s not like the real thing, but I just like it. Invert nudge toggle switch would be great.

 

[p6800]

How is the real thing? When the ball comes down the middle and you gently nudge the table towards left, the ball should go slightly right. Right?!

https://www.ipdb.org/playing/advanced.html

The basic concept is that you want to move the machine to change the direction of the ball, and you must move the machine in the opposite direction as you want the ball to move.

 

[FunktionJCB]

It's a minor thing, but I wish the DMD display would be slightly bigger on FX3.
I know there is a setting to change the size, but on my display (I'm using a 1680x1050 resolution on my PC) the default (medium) size seems too small, and the next size is too big, and it gets superimposed over the actual table.

On TPA, the size was pretty much perfect, not too big, not too small.

 

[Jeff Strong]

How is the real thing? When the ball comes down the middle and you gently nudge the table towards left, the ball should go slightly right. Right?!

https://www.ipdb.org/playing/advanced.html

Yes, that is correct, but it's sometimes hard to tell for a number of reasons:

1.) It's much more subtle than TPA (which is good because it was way overdone in TPA)
2.) when it's out on the open playfield, the ball barely moves or doesn't move at all (again also a good thing)
3.) when the ball is near a playfield object(s), your nudge can actually send it in the opposite direction you want because of the collision and bounce off the object, which makes it hard to tell sometimes. You'll notice this if you try to nudge when the ball is resting on a raised left flipper for example. If you nudge the table to the right, the ball will bounce against the side of the left inlane and actually move more right instead of left. If you nudge to the left, the ball will bounce off the flipper and actually move left instead of right. This can screw you sometimes if you're nudging to save an outlane drain and the ball nips a post or the top of the sling and goes in the opposite direction you intended.

 

[p6800]

3.) when the ball is near a playfield object, your nudge can actually send it in the opposite direction you want because of the collision and bounce off the object, which makes it hard to tell sometimes. You'll notice this if you try to nudge when the ball is resting on a raised left flipper for example. If you nudge the table to the right, the ball will bounce against the side of the left inlane and actually move more right instead of left.

That's something covered in the earlier link.

The only times that you move the machine in the same direction as you want the ball to go is when the ball is stuck against something or when you want to send the ball through the Narrow Escape gate in Indiana Jones.

The thing is, nudging is a huuuge part of the experience. Have we seen how pros play at tournaments? It's a non-stop shake, nudge, slap-fest. That's something i got used to in TPA. I constantly use slight nudging to make the ball do what i want, as we all do. The way things are now, nudging is unusable in FX3. Slight double nudge? 1st warning. And the nudge has a way too small of an impact on the ball to make you feel in control using this technique. I tried practice mode, where tilting is disabled. I don't fell like i'm doing anything to be where i would like to be. Invert nudge=ON probably has something to do with it after years of TPA having the nudging the right direction at least, even if overdone.

This could be another option in the future: "Nudging effect: normal, high, overdone"

 

[crazyflipperfingers]

TPA had it correct, directionally speaking. Pushing left moved the table left (which means using your right hand to push the right side of the machine to move it left), which moved the ball to the right.

It was you inversion guys who were doing it backwards. Monsters, the lot of you.

Unfortunately as of right now FX3's (and Zaccaria's) nudging also feels inverted by default on Switch. I hope they add the option to reverse it to the way it should be.

It seemed backwards to me on PC too. Of course it's impossible to tell when the ball is on the open field because it seems to have no effect at all. I was trying nudging with the ball trapped on a flipper though, and as far as I could tell it feels backwards.

I played for an hour or so last night and honestly I was a bit disappointed in the physics. I was super hyped for the release after seeing their video on the flipper "tricks", but once I started playing I found myself not really enjoying the game. I'm using the classic physics and my main gripes are:

1. Aiming just seems off. I can't seem to hit anything. I've never had a problem IRL, on TPA, or using Zen's old physics. I'm normally shooting from a trap and it just doesn't feel right. My shots almost always end up too far too either side of what I'm shooting for. I thought maybe I had some sort of input lag going on but when I switched over to "Zen physics" I had no problems.

2. Backhands are still way too hard to do. I thought the Monster Fish shot on Fish Tales was impossible, but ended up hitting it maybe 5% of the time (I was just trapping the ball on the left flipper and trying the backhand over and over).

3. The table seems way too steep (ball is so fast). There is "realistic" and there is just hard, and I think this is too far to the hard side. Off the plunge on Fish Tales - if you hold the left flipper up the ball will bounce up a full third of the playfield. This also makes it extremely difficult to pull off live catches. I do them all the time IRL and I just can't do it consistently at all in Zen's recreation.

I really hope they spend a bit more time tuning things up.

 

[Jeff Strong]

OK, playing in practice mode with the tilt off and going ham reveals that nudging is indeed backwards. I guess I couldn't really tell before since it's so subtle otherwise so I haven't really been nudging all that much.

So yeah, it's a problem. Keyboard users can at least remap the controls, but everyone else is out of luck, for now anyway. :/

 

[Dok5555555]

OK, playing in practice mode with the tilt off and going ham reveals that nudging is indeed backwards. I guess I couldn't really tell before since it's so subtle otherwise so I haven't really been nudging all that much.

So yeah, it's a problem. Keyboard users can at least remap the controls, but everyone else is out of luck, for now anyway. :/

Speaking of practice mode, is there anyway to do practice mode with classic physics? Only seems to use single player physics.