Feedback on new UI

[AnvilCloud]

Ah-ha! Thanks. That is interesting. And pretty damn disappointing. The step down UI was actually shocking to me as I've never seen one that bad intentionally - I mean somebody actually designed this and OK'd it is beyond shocking. Especially for a game that isn't a simple $0.99 one time fee to play. Maybe some of the Play store comments have a point when it comes to boycotting. I don't know. Wish I could say I still enjoy the tables but somehow they've added bugs instead of removing them.

The Xbox One UI is cumbersome but usable... Maybe it hasn't been updated? Wish they'd allow custom input for that as I'd rather use the trigger buttons instead of L and R shoulder buttons.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Here's an idea. Sign up to be a beta tester. It's free and there are minimal if any restrictions.

So instead of venting in a forum that Farsight aren't obliged to read, reply to, or take any notice of whatsoever, you can make comments in a constructive manner that are seen by Farsight developers and testers who do respond.

 

[AnvilCloud]

Good idea.... Just seems a bit late now. Was any anything related to beta-testing ever in a newsletter? And I don't get the impression that they would've merely tweaked the old UI either. They seem stubborn and stuck on this garbage

 

[Shardz]

Here's an idea. Sign up to be a beta tester. It's free and there are minimal if any restrictions.

So instead of venting in a forum that Farsight aren't obliged to read, reply to, or take any notice of whatsoever, you can make comments in a constructive manner that are seen by Farsight developers and testers who do respond.

Well, that's a terrific suggestion, but alas, the testers have also mentioned in this very forum many, many times that their requests, observations and reports go completely unchecked with the dev team and fall upon deaf ears. Reports get sent in and things don't get fixed. This is not just a few people coming here to get upset with a couple bugs, this is a failed system that many are tired of that serves them very little.

Now, if we were talking about some cheeseball app for 99 cents that had issues, I certainly wouldn't waste my time typing this right now and would simply move on to a better product. However, as we know very well, the complete Pinball Arcade experience will run hundreds of dollars - tenfold more than any other game in its class, and many have gone that route to be completely disappointed with a lack of response...or even a mere explanation. You cannot fault or expect their 'investors' (for lack of a better word) to be enthralled with the way things are being handled.

There is a staggering list of issues from the new 2.0 version alone, not to mention long term bugs that simply have not been addressed yet over the course of time. Checking the forums will adequately demonstrate this point rather easily. The fact that no word trickles down to those who have forked out so much money and given their complete support in trade of deafening silence is not a practice I consider to be ethical or even logical. Let's put the ball in the proper court since the customers have withstood quite enough already with all that has and hasn't transpired.

 

[Kolchak357]

There are not a lot of options.
Point out issues in a constructive way and try and help make it better
Or
Stop buying
Or
Wait for things to get fixed and then buy

The fact that we are in this forum shows we want it to be as good as possible. So let's do all we can and assume Farsight will do the same and get this game full of great pins to where it should be.

 

[Shardz]

Agreed. Nobody is trying to create unnecessary static or warfare, or even shoot for the year's Top Troll Award. However, the outstanding bugs from 2.0 have not only not been fixed in three patches, but seemingly ignored as well. Head over to the Android section here and check out the six pages of posts. In what proper manner does it need to be reported exactly? That thread has existed since the first day 2.0 went live, yet no acknowledgement they are even reading it. How are they being constructive in aiding us doing their job exactly? See how complicated this gets when a company simply doesn't interact with the fan base? The latest patch, number three since 2.0...no changelog. What did they do exactly cause I saw no difference at all. Zero transparency. Is there a changelog thread here I'm not aware of? How about posting the changes to Google Play if there is, or post a link.

The forum is bogged down with old bug reports still awaiting fixes on multiple platforms ad infinitum. How constructive do those need to be exactly? Would multi-language translations help? Google is our friend, right? Perhaps chalkboard diagrams and illustrations on graph paper might be more suitable? This right here is not a bug report; those have been sitting idle throughout the forum. This is amazement of seeing the customers denied of input as they take the time to stream issues, bugs and suggestions to the forum in what appears to be a complete lack of regard for their efforts, including their financial support as well. Never have I seen the likes of this anywhere else before, and I'm old.

Let's also throw into the mix the fact that the PC users had to opt in to this beta thing with total consent, while the mobile platforms were bombed with this update with no warning. Ask most if they would have opted in and most would would tell you no, or at least not until it's perfected. This was not our choice, it was forced and it broke a normally pleasant experience for lots of people. Google Play also has a beta test program to keep it out of the public until it is done....why wasn't that method used?

Second item on your list; stop buying. Okay, so what you are suggesting is mass refunds for those who already have invested balls deep into the project who are completely unhappy with the mysterious direction they are taking? It's quite obvious that Season 6 will financially bomb like the Hindenburg, that's a given, and touché, I agree. But what about the issue of good faith on their part to existing customers? We did our part, now we wait again for theirs...and wait. It's like buying a car, having the engine fall out down the road, then returning to the dealer to discover the windows and doors are boarded up. How is that fair exactly?

Maybe a poll would have been in order to suggest a new UI, get it fully running and perfected first, then take more suggestions on how to streamline it further? Just check out the flood of comments on Google Play and ratings that flipped from 5 stars to 1 over this whole ordeal. Steam isn't much better from what I've seen on the product landing page. Are the browsers blocked at Farsight? They can't see the dismay and disapproval from their collective communities or what? Hell, I'm aware if someone gives me a -1 on a Reddit post, how can you miss 500 angry customers posting comments in every retail channel they are part of?

I simply just don't get it and it's not a business model that I'm accustomed to in my experience. I exchange emails with game devs on Google Play that have free products and love feedback, encouraging it as well. They aren't making dime one, but are making quality products with not a single ad and writing me back solid pages of responses to my suggestions and ideas. Here we have just the opposite effect and I'm completely baffled at the entire scenario.

 

[bigfatbass]

Finally got it running on Steam, and was excited to play full screen etc. I had my credit card IN MY HAND ready to buy multiple seasons during this sale period. Season one is not available for Mac Steam players. What the (expletive withheld) kind of nonsense is that?

FarSight is clearly a company with no foresight. Don't even get me started on the obfuscated/crippleware nightmare that is attempting to run it through the App Store.

From 2 separate moments of about to send them $40-50 bucks, they have provided an end user experience so unsatisfactory that I will now just play Arabian Nights, and whatever the table of the month is.

From positive cash flow, to negative cash flow just like that.

Psychitzo releases/platform conflicts, and untested, bug-saturated "updates", are the death of ANY content company, and almost universally why small game companies like this have such a massive fail rate, despite a rabid and growing user base.

 

[invitro]

Psychitzo releases/platform conflicts, and untested, bug-saturated "updates", are the death of ANY content company, and almost universally why small game companies like this have such a massive fail rate, despite a rabid and growing user base.

Farsight has been a company for 28 years. Clearly they have mastered the art of being a small game company.

 

[Spork98765]

2.01.2:

The custom balls tiles are overlapping. The ball images overflow the tiles.

Why is the sound menu now just on/off instead of the 3 sliders for menu music, game music, and table effects?

When you exit a game, the table select menu always resets to the top and doesn't remember the last position. Yes it stays sorted by the selected sorting filter, but it doesn't remember position in the list. If you have to scroll 4 pages down to select a table, you will have to scroll 4 pages down to select that table, or the one beside it, each time in the same session.

The Gorgar score display doesn't look anything like the score display from the game, and there is no ball in play display.

Big Shot Plunge Cam 1 in portrait doesn't show the plunger.

When bringing the app back from the list of recent apps, or if you put the device in standby with TPA open, the UI will be shown slid to the left and the old UI running behind it.

Y axis in nudge is still inverted.

Achievement notification banners take up way too much space. Can there be an option to disable them?

Table exploration still has the table name banner, the HUD DMD, and the upper part of the UI in portrait. Whereas in Landscape there is no table name banner. This inconsistency in what is shown continues over to the open coin door as well.

Turning on Pro Mode erases local HSTD (High Score To Date) data. Both Pro Mode and "regular" mode are supposed to store local HSTD data as separate sets of data. When it works right "regular" mode will have a set of local high scores, and Pro Mode will have a set of high scores. Enabling Pro Mode should not overwrite, nor erase the "regular" mode high scores. This works for a while, then gets broke, then doesn;t get fixed for months, then gets fixed, but the Pro Mode settings won't save, then that gets fixed and the scores are broke ... ad infinitum

Playing with Tilt Meter on should not disable leaderboards, nor HoF points; it didn't on the previous UI.

 

[jaredmorgs]

2.01.2:

Why is the sound menu now just on/off instead of the 3 sliders for menu music, game music, and table effects?

I asked that in the beta (released yesterday).

Apparently there are bugs with the volume sliders affecting in game audio as well as menu volume.

So they have made the vol levels un-changeable and will likely add volume levels back in after they resolve the issue.

 

[kinggo]

2.01.2:
Turning on Pro Mode erases local HSTD (High Score To Date) data. Both Pro Mode and "regular" mode are supposed to store local HSTD data as separate sets of data. When it works right "regular" mode will have a set of local high scores, and Pro Mode will have a set of high scores. Enabling Pro Mode should not overwrite, nor erase the "regular" mode high scores. This works for a while, then gets broke, then doesn;t get fixed for months, then gets fixed, but the Pro Mode settings won't save, then that gets fixed and the scores are broke ... ad infinitum

When did it actually worked? Not that I tried after once realizing that my local scores are gone for good. This makes pro mode totally worthless.

 

[francis247uk]

Playing on a Galaxy S5, cannot get High Speed to run at the correct speed after the Indy 500 table update, for some reason it's running very very fast. Also not happy that it appears you have to be connected to the internet to play the game? You never had to - used to enjoy playing this on trains, planes etc. What was the logic behind this move? Thought I hated the old menu music, now I want it back!

 

[Spork98765]

When did it actually worked? Not that I tried after once realizing that my local scores are gone for good. This makes pro mode totally worthless.

It has worked, around when SS was released there were a lot of posts indicating correct behaviour.

I would speculate that for most of 2013 it was working correctly, and post 2013 that it hasn't.

This incorrect behaviour has become a semi-permanent(?) bug that either cannot be fixed, or is too complicated now that the people who knew how to maintain the feature are gone from the company.

 

[kinggo]

hmmmmmm..... SS is the one I lost my local scores on.
Regading the new UI........ man, it is fugly. And I'm not sure that it's more functional also. The only thing I found so far that is better is that one cannot press back so easily while in table exploration.
What I would like to see is standard/wizard goals status and HoF point on those table thumbnails.

 

[Bravewall]

Playing on an Asus Zenpad. UI dimensions are off. (Very easy to tell, when pictures of balls are squished.) Not a problem on my moto G phone, or Galaxy Tab 4.

 

[bigfatbass]

Predatory adclick garbage still happening, and it's still bugs the game when it forces you out of pinball arcade. I can't believe a company would release an update this unbelievably awful. It virtually ruins their game, and yet here we are.

 

[jaredmorgs]

Playing on an Asus Zenpad. UI dimensions are off. (Very easy to tell, when pictures of balls are squished.) Not a problem on my moto G phone, or Galaxy Tab 4.

Shield Tab suffers from this as well.

 

[rhester72]

tbh, going slightly off topic, I think it's a bit much to assume that these folks (who have indeed been doing games for many consoles over many years quite successfully) are too stupid to realize they should take their fan base into account.

The real issue, near as I can tell, is that it was/is an unsustainable business model. Unlike most gaming platforms, "real" digital pinball comes with a built-in expiration date - once you've built all the tables there ever were, it's over. There's no further source of significant revenue stream, except from straggler purchases. As a result, you a) have to price your tables incredibly high (owing to development obsolescence combined with astronomical licensing fees) and b) conserve your profits from early efforts to see you through for a while as revenue continues to necessarily decline. Yes, they hawk on new platforms as they become available, but a) how many will buy for those new platforms that didn't before, and b) how many are willing to spend that kind of money on more than one platform? You also have to hire on additional staff to develop for and support these additional platforms, because while core technical knowledge about PA may not change, it's unrealistic to think that dev and QA staff will be able to handle both the technical divergence across platforms and the additional workload...and employee salaries are the #1 expense of any company. Not only that, consoles in particular have continued to extend their lifetimes, not shrink them, so the concept of a new console every other year is a historical relic.

We are long past the 'salad days' of Pinball Arcade now, where those who were going to purchase tables and Season Passes already have and there aren't many tables left to (viably) build and sell. Revenues have dried up, and thus key developers, testers, and designers that were in it from the beginning can see the writing on the wall and are departing for greener pastures. Given the same conditions, what would YOU do? I, for one, like to eat, and I'm sure they do as well.

As a result of this unsustainable model, the end is nigh. There's just no money coming in to sustain it, and what cash-on-hand they did have was apparently tragically wasted on a new UI (in development for THREE YEARS?!?) that nobody wants, with no way back *and* no way forward.

I don't know what I might have done differently - perhaps they could have considered a pay-to-play annual subscription model, but that would likely have driven most customers away prior to even an initial purchase (paying $30 for a season is one thing, but would you pay it year over year, if it offered you better support, communication, and timely bug fixes? You may think 'yes'...but would you REALLY?).

Whatever the case, it's too late now - there's no money in the coffers, the product is irreparably broken, and they have managed to forge an incredibly bad reputation that will continue to haunt them...which sucks, because there was REAL talent in the company marketing a very engaging product that I for one quite enjoyed while it lasted.

tl;dr they are listening, there's just nothing they can realistically do

Rodney

 

[Kolchak357]

Glad they didn't go play to pay. Hate that kind of system.

 

[Shardz]

Those are interesting statements regarding the longevity of the project, but their actions don't seem to match what you are driving at, or at least in no logical form. Let's say sales are drying up a bit and they are considering the future down the line from now. Why trash a perfectly functioning interface and replace it with something half-baked right before the payday of season 6? Why change it at all, really? Old customers can't even access the videos they purchased, let alone play the five seasons they invested in within a reasonable comfort factor. If they are pinching pennies to extend their financial horizons, why tackle something so enormous when the gains are so minute and the risk runs so high?

Looking ahead, they have relied on Kickstarter for a number of tables with great success. The licensing is obviously expensive, as are the salaries, lease, utilities and other factors in the mix; we get it. As they have created over 70 replicas and have that down to a science, they could always create original tables with the experience thus gained and try that route for an experiment instead of tearing apart components that already work. I would be interested to see what they could design with all that knowledge with a series of hypothetical tables that 'could have been'. Cutting out the licensing fees from that series would increase profits to help bolster the coffers for the future. If Zen can do it, I know for a fact Farsight can design old-school tables that would fit into their philosophy. Just an example of other options that would have left a better taste in the mouth than sabotaging what they already had.

Secondly, the product will remain no matter what they decide to do internally. There are hundreds more tables that can be considered for creation...and launching these single-table products with IAP (Android) was a huge waste of time as people obviously rejected them (Ghostbusters) as they don't want to pay per play. These are pit stops that shouldn't have transpired. It's like things are going so well as is, but they stay up all night thinking of clever ways to veer off course simply to mix things up out of boredom. Their production schedule has been solid for a long time now, why mess with something that works?

Now they have a PR problem that has spiraled out of control and there's no easy way to fix that except wait for new users to come in to replace the old. That isn't bolstering the fan base any, that is a transfusion of customers. I have read quite a few times in Android reviews so far, and it applies so well here; if it ain't broken, don't fix it. It's not so much that the UI killed functionality and charm, there are lots of bugs left behind with the tables and other things we probably aren't even aware of yet. It was a huge stack of chips on the table that didn't pay off too well, and the customers got the short end of the stick due to whatever highly secretive motives they had.

And as for transparency and community interaction, I'm not seeing any. When a company seeks investors to pull in funds, not answering the phone and ignoring that crowd isn't the best business model, either. I really don't understand what's going on over there, but one thing remains clear; a long road lies ahead that will require great patience on both sides to persevere. With this lack of consideration and communication, which side will collapse first? With very little grasp of the logic involved here, and with no explanations given, the users are left in the dark like mushrooms with no clue as to what the future holds for them as customers.