Flipper lag theory

[ER777]

Besides flipper lag switching from 1080p to 720p makes the table selection alot faster...

Definitely, its very noticeable for me there too. On the CRT TV its silky smooth, just flowing between tables with no delay. At 720p its fairly smooth too, but at 1080p its really clunky.

 

[Tann]

It's a TV issue, too. I bet on an ASUS monitor, it doesn't lag.

My TV is a CRT "HD prepared" (HDCP compatible) with an HDMI output. > http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?ctn=32PW9551/12&slg=eng&scy=eng

And I have huge lag in 1080i, and still a little lag in 720p (but it's playable though).

I didn't try 576p because what's the point to display TPA in this resolution.

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

Like your avatar Tann

 

[Tann]

Like your avatar Tann

Thanks. I still own the original cartridge! So many hours on this game!

A very polished work from Rare (the great idea to split the screen), with very funny additions (the "blue blob", trianble and square ball , etc.). And the 8-bit sound I could spend hours to listen the original main theme :

 

[Kemetman72]

I do not have a gaming mode on my TV. I wish FS also made a limited editor like VP has so we could adjust the strength of flippers etc..I do notice lag on the PS3 sometimes but it's nothing really bad. All I have is a Westingouse 1080p TV. Also I refuse to run a game below or above it's native resolution. That's just the way I roll. I have always had a problem with HAREM multiball...the physics don't feel right compared to other recreations I have played. My personal opinion is that any flipper lag is a physics problem or not properly using the real potential of the PS3.

 

[Gord Lacey]

Take a look at this site: http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/

They have a database of TVs with lag ratings. Very neat.

 

[smbhax]

Well I'll be darned. Great link, Gord!

 

[mikepaul]

I bought TPA so I could play ST:TNG again after YEARS of thinking I'd never get another chance. I had to buy it on the PS3, and have run into this lag issue.

Or, if not 'lag', a phenomenon where I squeeze the trigger when the ball is on the flipper and by the time the flipper flips, the ball has rolled off. I've already run into someone who doesn't have this problem and thinks it's all in my head. And I shouldn't pick on TPA for being the only PS3 game I have where I see this kind of problem.

Perhaps it is all a ball speed issue, and instead of trying to shoot the ball off the flipper I should just try to keep it in play by ramping the ball back onto a bumper and hoping for a catch once it slows down. There is no real lag when I've caught the ball and I'm trying to hit something with it. It's almost like the animation of the ball rolling quickly is making the PS3 slow in dealing with a trigger pull.

Does using the Pro table configuration stuff help anyone, like by adjusting the table angle so the ball rolls slower? Assuming of course that such an adjustment is allowed. And that it doesn't cancel out any Trophies one could get. One of the last real ST:TNG tables I played had the ball slowed down a LOT this way and it was really lame, so all I'd aim for is enough for the ball to not go so fast that I can't flip it accurately while it's moving rapidly.

I'm using 720p, and I'm using my HDTV's game mode, and frankly I'm already getting tired of the balls that roll off the flipper before the flipper has a chance to move. All the free fixes seem to have been exhausted so I'm left with configuration changes I have to pay extra to access. I'd like this to work out, since getting ST:TNG on the 360 as I'd have preferred in the first place is still a big maybe.

Thanks...

 

[shutyertrap]

Buying PRO mode is not going to solve anything for you. Are you using the R1/L1 triggers, or the R2/L2 shoulder buttons? I find the shoulder buttons to be much more responsive, just sayin'. Is ST:TNG the only table you are having a problem with, or is it also affecting other tables? If it's only ST:TNG, it very well might all be in your head! Finally, just sticking your TV into game mode may not be enough. You need to turn off all post processing, period.

 

[brakel]

You might be having an issue with the two stage flippers where you're initially only activating the upper flipper and then you continue to press harder and you finally activate the lower flipper.

 

[netizen]

You might be having an issue with the two stage flippers where you're initially only activating the upper flipper and then you continue to press harder and you finally activate the lower flipper.

Aren't two stage flippers the other way around? Lower is triggered first with the upper being the one with more "Control" and is triggered later, or further in the stroke of the button

 

[mikepaul]

Buying PRO mode is not going to solve anything for you. Are you using the R1/L1 triggers, or the R2/L2 shoulder buttons? I find the shoulder buttons to be much more responsive, just sayin'. Is ST:TNG the only table you are having a problem with, or is it also affecting other tables? If it's only ST:TNG, it very well might all be in your head! Finally, just sticking your TV into game mode may not be enough. You need to turn off all post processing, period.

It's all the tables, but the only one I WANT to play is ST:TNG.

So there's no Pro adjustment so the ball rolls slower, such as lowering the slope of the table? If it's slower, even the lag I notice might not be as big an issue as it is now.

And if it's all in my head, why does this thread, and several others, exist? Some delusion that makes me think I'm posting and other people are responding? What's the nature of the titular lag elsewhere?...

 

[brakel]

Aren't two stage flippers the other way around? Lower is triggered first with the upper being the one with more "Control" and is triggered later, or further in the stroke of the button

Yes, you're right. I hit my flippers so hard that I can't even do the two stage thing so I forgot how it works!

I was just trying to figure out what the problem might be. The lag he describes is neither the game nor his tv.

 

[superballs]

Try setting your ps3 to 720p and see if it alleviates your issue. If it does, you are experiencing the 1 frame lag caused by the dynamic lighting. This would be compounded at higher ball speeds of course because it will travel further in a single frame at higher speeds, but have much less of an effect at slower speeds.

 

[mikepaul]

Try setting your ps3 to 720p and see if it alleviates your issue. If it does, you are experiencing the 1 frame lag caused by the dynamic lighting. This would be compounded at higher ball speeds of course because it will travel further in a single frame at higher speeds, but have much less of an effect at slower speeds.

I don't see much difference at 720p. There's no huge problem except when the ball is rolling quickly, except I *always* notice that when I pull the triggers the flipper is not flipping instantly. A caught ball is usually easy enough to throw at a specific target. I will just have to remember to always ramp the ball back into play rather than try to shoot it and wait for a chance to catch it. That sucks, but it's all I can do until ST:TNG is available on the 360. Thanks...

 

[brakel]

I don't see much difference at 720p. There's no huge problem except when the ball is rolling quickly, except I *always* notice that when I pull the triggers the flipper is not flipping instantly. A caught ball is usually easy enough to throw at a specific target. I will just have to remember to always ramp the ball back into play rather than try to shoot it and wait for a chance to catch it. That sucks, but it's all I can do until ST:TNG is available on the 360. Thanks...

Try plugging in your controller. It only works for a small percentage of users but its worth trying. My wife has one of the newest gen PS3 controllers available in the new designer colors and they just act different. She has to plug her controller in or she has really bad lag. Lag that my daughter and I don't have.

 

[Daniel Osborne]

I got lag really bad, even in pc mode on my Samsung TV, however before I changed the settings on the console to 720p, I tried playing with the controller plugged in. Lag was gone! Wahey!

 

[Tann]

I noticed one new thing when I played in 1080i: there is still lag of course, but now, there is some kind of tearing!

The screen "splits horizontally" (without the usual shift of a normal tearing), and the ball disappears for half a second.

It happens during single ball play as multiball.

I don't remember seeing this before in 1080 resolution (lag only). Maybe because I'm sticked to set TPA in 720p, in order to have a playable game...

Have you ever encountered this or I'm just in late?

 

[Tann]

Oh my! Lag reduced! (?)

After downloading the new pacth (1.10 for Europe), i can't believe it, but it seems the lag in 1920x1080 have been reduced!

There's still a difference between 1280x720 and 1920x1080, but for the first time, I feel it not like a big deal... I can even say that I prefer now the gameplay in 1080 resolution:

720p: The ball goes faster, ball paths are crazy and erratic, chain ramps is harder, keep the multiball alive is easier, catch the ball is easy, no lag input.
1080i: The ball goes slower, has more weight, chain ramps is easier, "control" the ball path is a lot easier but catch it is harder (the ball bounces a lot on the flip), deal with multiball is harder because there's still a little delay when I flip (stupid drains still happen), but it's far more playable than before.

But, there's still this weird ball "hiccup" time to time in 1080i... I wonder if it is the cause of the lag being reduced...

First, I thought there was a placebo effect. But there's a big clue it's not: the scroll on the table selection menu is faster than before, and react as soon as I press the D-pad buttons. (in 720p, it's still a lot faster compared to 1080i, though)

What's your feeling about this? Have you noticed some changes?

 

[Tann]

OK, something has changed: I beat my highscore on Theatre of Magic. Yes, THEATRE OF MAGIC.

It's the table I've played the most in 720p, two games in 1080i, and I beat my highscore (while it was unplayable before the update).
6.3 billions to 6.9 billions.

The biggest difference is that I have to press much harder L1/R1 in 1080i. Timing is almost the same than in 720p (a little earlier).

For exemple, to get into the Trap Door:
- 720p: a quick press on L1 (while the ball is in the middle of the left flip)
- 1080i: in the middle of the left flip too, but I have to press harder L1 and keep it down.

EDIT: Oh... and ToTAN, what a difference. It was the worst laggy table, and now, it's playable!