For the love of God! (bug frustrations)

[Tron]

As much as I like this game I think it was solely intended for the IOS market. The casual pick up and play sort of person who wouldn't be hammering it long enough to come across the minor flaws and bugs. And with the transfer to consoles they just cannot produce the title polished enough to play good and look good on the big screen.

As for the developers do they actually post on the PS3 side of these forums?

 

[iCub]

I edited the topic a little bit to make it clearer what the discussion was.

To be honest, I've been extremely frustrated in the past as well. One day I almost tossed my hands in the air and posted a message about shutting down the forums because I was tired of the bugs, and the frustrations with testing. I quickly realized that won't help the problem though, and I want to help FarSight find a solution to fixing these bugs. There certainly have been some "WTF" moments in the history of this game; I had one just the other day when I opened NGG and couldn't see the plunger when it was pulled back. How is that missed? I have no idea, but sometimes I wonder if testing only occurs on one system per table pack.

I'll let the topic stand because I do feel the OP has a point; the continual bugginess of the game WILL lose them customers. People will slowly stop buying table packs after they've experienced one bug too many, and whose to say they'll return? It's frustrating when bugs are introduced to tables that didn't have them before - it's almost like we have to hold our breath every time a new pack is released because it may wreck an old table, and that shouldn't be how it is.

I couldn't agree more... You know there is a serious problem when even the most ardent supporters are starting to question the status quo. You only have to take a look at the thread hit count to see what an important topic this has become.

To the poster saying that it doesn't hurt sales and that this community is only growing; take a look around and you will see that the general growth comes from the ever growing list of complaints. I don't see the love of pinball as a hobby being the main topic here at the moment.

I can provide a real world example of bugs affecting sales. I've trumpeted this game to numerous friends on my PSN list in an effort to spread the word and sent a link to download the demo from the store. It's proved to be counter productive as the response was that the game feels "laggy" and off. Thus, the buggy demo with flipper lag has actually dissuaded people from buying the full game. This is without them getting to the point of discovering DLC that won't restart after one game without quitting, or the ever growing list of other bugs listed on here.

To my mind a Community Manager is sorely needed at the moment. Many of the issues raised on here come down to lack of communication with the customer. Problems are always easier to tolerate when you know that they are being looked at and your voice has been heard. Case in point is the Android section of this website. There the chief (only?) android developer at Farsight is actively engaged with the community.

Cries of "it's only a small company" aren't good enough. With social media, communication is easier and cheaper than ever. Small companies build big reputations in part, from good community interaction that fosters positive support. Take a look at another SMALL pinball company called Zen Studios... they have a superb Community Manager that regularly provides feedback and answers questions on the forums. They are also heavily engaged in Twitter and Facebook. The consequence of this being that though their forums are a quieter space than here, the topics are allowed to move away from complaints to more positive topics. Often these people don't actually work at the company but are paid to be a liaison.

I love the concept of Pinball Arcade and I would guess that is why we are all here ultimately. Whether praising or complaining, it's all down to a passion for the subject. This in itself is a valuable thing for anyone trying to market something, where the biggest pitfall can often be consumer indifference. This passion is slowing being eroded with each buggy update.

My stance, while not as furious as some, has led me to take a pause. I'm up to Monster Bash DLC and now its time to sit back and see what happens next. Much as I would dearly love a virtual Elvira table, I will resist the temptation. Anyway, at this time of year we are hardly short of gaming choice in the stores.

Ultimately, the biggest protest we can make is not by shouting, but by taking our cash elsewhere. It is for Farsight to convince it's customers that the loyalty is well deserved. Personally, I hope they do.

 

[Mike Reitmeyer]

I agree with you 100% that Black Knight on the PS3 is an oversaturated mess. Mike Reitmeyer has started a few threads acknowledging issues they are addressing on a few tables, but hasn't done so for all tables. I would also like to see more communication from FarSight acknowledging bugs that have been reported and possibly giving us time frames for updates that will fix them.

I haven't done more with the bugs compilations because we now have Stephen who goes through all the bug posts and puts them in our database.

I'm sorry about the frustration, but we are working to improve the game. In between tables I sometimes have a day or two of time to work on some bugs so I try to do that. Some bugs are really hard to reproduce consistantly enough to easily fix, so bug fixing is a balance of time, severity and risk.

I would suggest any issues you are having you email to support@pinballarcade.com, and even post in the bug threads so that if others see the same issue they can give thier information on it as well. The more details we have the easier it is to fix, and the less time it takes, which means more time to fix other issues.

 

[ROTTEN]

I haven't done more with the bugs compilations because we now have Stephen who goes through all the bug posts and puts them in our database.

I'm sorry about the frustration, but we are working to improve the game. In between tables I sometimes have a day or two of time to work on some bugs so I try to do that. Some bugs are really hard to reproduce consistantly enough to easily fix, so bug fixing is a balance of time, severity and risk.

I would suggest any issues you are having you email to support@pinballarcade.com, and even post in the bug threads so that if others see the same issue they can give thier information on it as well. The more details we have the easier it is to fix, and the less time it takes, which means more time to fix other issues.

Thank you for responding. Many of us are curious about an update on the input lag. Anything you can tell us?

 

[Mike Reitmeyer]

Thank you for responding. Many of us are curious about an update on the input lag. Anything you can tell us?

I believe our engine guy was able to improve it but not remove it completely. I think they are still trying to figure out how to fix it.

 

[Jeff Strong]

I haven't done more with the bugs compilations because we now have Stephen who goes through all the bug posts and puts them in our database.

I'm sorry about the frustration, but we are working to improve the game. In between tables I sometimes have a day or two of time to work on some bugs so I try to do that. Some bugs are really hard to reproduce consistantly enough to easily fix, so bug fixing is a balance of time, severity and risk.

I would suggest any issues you are having you email to support@pinballarcade.com, and even post in the bug threads so that if others see the same issue they can give thier information on it as well. The more details we have the easier it is to fix, and the less time it takes, which means more time to fix other issues.

Thanks for the reply, Mike. You're doing awesome work, and we really appreciate it. It is a bit concerning that you "sometimes" have a day or two in between new tables to work on bugs (but I know this isn't your fault). As the tables keep piling up, the bugs are as well...it already seems that there are more bugs than you have time to deal with and it will probably only get worse as time goes on. I have to think it would be for the best to schedule at least a couple more days for bug fixing in between table releases. I know that's not your decision, but I wish management would realize that it's only for the best in the long run, and in the short term as well.

 

[grashopper]

Like Jeff said I think you need more time between releases. A good solid week of pure bug and art fixes after you finish the newer tables. Repeat until caught up. I'm really bummed out that one of my favorite tables Black Knight to me is absolutely unplayable. That is by far the most glitchy and rough looking table. I was really looking forward to it and I can't even bring myself to play it. Just looking at the faded blotchy play field upsets me.

 

[iCub]

I couldn't agree more... You know there is a serious problem when even the most ardent supporters are starting to question the status quo. You only have to take a look at the thread hit count to see what an important topic this has become.

To the poster saying that it doesn't hurt sales and that this community is only growing; take a look around and you will see that the general growth comes from the ever growing list of complaints. I don't see the love of pinball as a hobby being the main topic here at the moment.

I can provide a real world example of bugs affecting sales. I've trumpeted this game to numerous friends on my PSN list in an effort to spread the word and sent a link to download the demo from the store. It's proved to be counter productive as the response was that the game feels "laggy" and off. Thus, the buggy demo with flipper lag has actually dissuaded people from buying the full game. This is without them getting to the point of discovering DLC that won't restart after one game without quitting, or the ever growing list of other bugs listed on here.

To my mind a Community Manager is sorely needed at the moment. Many of the issues raised on here come down to lack of communication with the customer. Problems are always easier to tolerate when you know that they are being looked at and your voice has been heard. Case in point is the Android section of this website. There the chief (only?) android developer at Farsight is actively engaged with the community.

Cries of "it's only a small company" aren't good enough. With social media, communication is easier and cheaper than ever. Small companies build big reputations in part, from good community interaction that fosters positive support. Take a look at another SMALL pinball company called Zen Studios... they have a superb Community Manager that regularly provides feedback and answers questions on the forums. They are also heavily engaged in Twitter and Facebook. The consequence of this being that though their forums are a quieter space than here, the topics are allowed to move away from complaints to more positive topics. Often these people don't actually work at the company but are paid to be a liaison.

I love the concept of Pinball Arcade and I would guess that is why we are all here ultimately. Whether praising or complaining, it's all down to a passion for the subject. This in itself is a valuable thing for anyone trying to market something, where the biggest pitfall can often be consumer indifference. This passion is slowing being eroded with each buggy update.

My stance, while not as furious as some, has led me to take a pause. I'm up to Monster Bash DLC and now its time to sit back and see what happens next. Much as I would dearly love a virtual Elvira table, I will resist the temptation. Anyway, at this time of year we are hardly short of gaming choice in the stores.

Ultimately, the biggest protest we can make is not by shouting, but by taking our cash elsewhere. It is for Farsight to convince it's customers that the loyalty is well deserved. Personally, I hope they do.

Well according to the General Game Discussion thread, Farsight DOES have a Community Manager called Rob Mann. It beggars belief that he has never come on to the forums here to respond to customers. Other Farsight employees are well aware of this site, so his absence cannot be down to not knowing!

 

[Brandon Debes]

For those following this thread who may not have seen the other mentions of this news, FarSight Community Manager Rob Mann is here.

 

[J2fold]

Farsight please stop putting out bugged out tables and fix the ones that are. We deserve bug-free tables. And TZ had better be perfect for 9.99. Keep doing this and you will continually lose customers across the board. I am tired of things not getting fixed or when it does it breaks something else. Pathetic. Please try to do better as I want to support you but I may be on my way out.

Hold up and back up the horse who said TZ was going to be $9.99? That's too much!

 

[Sinistar]

Hold up and back up the horse who said TZ was going to be $9.99? That's too much!

Unless someone has a source? This is just speculation from the critics , and unless someone has the source quoting this pricepoint, I think we can ignore that.
We still dont know anything more than it's coming out late November and possibly on all regions in the same week on all platforms (excluding the X 360 )

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

Hold up and back up the horse who said TZ was going to be $9.99? That's too much!

I am not aware that any official source has revealed the price for Twilight Zone. So please keep calm and carry on.

 

[rehtroboi40]

They get enough ranting on FaceBook don't you think?? These forums is where common sense and reason are to be found. If you want to troll FarSight go to Facebook and do it , no one here will know it's you unless your avatar and forum names are similiar . Do you know why we get more feedback from the devs? here on this forum? It's because we believe these guys will eventually work out the bugs and they will work hard to make the game better and better .It's not going to happen the speed we would like it to , but every patch with fixes proves they keep trying . It's a small independent studio , small staff , limited resources . They have their limitations about what they can do , without it affecting the entire game , so they are limited in what they can fix without causing other problems .
If you think they prefer the "whip over the sugar cube " then you're wrong, FarSight will not improve their game because of threats , they WILL however bust their ass for their fans and supporters .

Good points! On FB, I've seen at least two instances where the FS moderator has had to step in because the rhetoric had gotten so out of hand. But in order to get our most important support (meaning our money), they need to get their product out there. It's been tougher than expected to do that on the PC and the 360. In the meantime, I'll continue buying tables on iOS-warts and all to support FarSight.

 

[spoonman]

I agree with most of this, but I think what gets players riled up is seeing the flood of new tables and Pro-Mode, while bugs end up slipping through the cracks.

I also think they shouldn't let the visuals go unfixed because they don't feel it's as important. Most real life pin fans will agree these are works of art and
we tend to notice when something looks "low res" or has a "muddy" or "doesn't pop". We only say this stuff because we love them so much (at least that's why I do).

From what I could tell these visual fixes are less dangerous to fix as well. IE: You aren't liable to break two more things while fixing one.
I'd at least like to see the PS3 tables looking as vivid as the 360.

I have bought all of the DLC and Kickstarted so I feel we do deserve to voice our opinions,
but again, it can be done with respect for the developers and everyone involved.

 

[Dont Troll Me]

I haven't done more with the bugs compilations because we now have Stephen who goes through all the bug posts and puts them in our database.

I'm sorry about the frustration, but we are working to improve the game. In between tables I sometimes have a day or two of time to work on some bugs so I try to do that. Some bugs are really hard to reproduce consistantly enough to easily fix, so bug fixing is a balance of time, severity and risk.

I would suggest any issues you are having you email to support@pinballarcade.com, and even post in the bug threads so that if others see the same issue they can give thier information on it as well. The more details we have the easier it is to fix, and the less time it takes, which means more time to fix other issues.

thank you for talking to us mike i really hope that you guys put more time into polshing and bug fixing and i really really want to love medieval madness but just cant right now.
until then i guess ill kick the crap out of some more Gofers XD

 

[Kaoru]

I'm starting to find myself playing the games less than I once used to. It's just that I'm getting bored with all the bugs that end your game prematurely, especially when you were just about to beat your high score. (And it seems that they always occur once your score starts to get a little higher than usual... but I guess that's because by then you've been playing for a while and you're just bound to run into a bug sooner or later.)

You know... I'd really like to love this game a bit more (than I once used to?), but it's more exhausting than enjoyable if things like these are still happening:
- Two balls in a plunger
- Table goals not being detected
- Balls getting stuck with the attendent thinking that it isn't. He just never thinks it's stuck.
- Balls going through the flipper, especially the extra one(s).
- Balls accelerating to light speed in return lanes.

And seeing these bugs carrying over from one table pack to another is just... disheartening. It just makes you wonder what's the point in playing at all... because achieving a high score apparently has not that much to do with skill. It's more a case of luck that you didn't run into one of those bugs.

Well, I contributed to the TZ- and ST-kickstarters... but if the quality control doesn't finally step up a bit I don't see myself pledging for the future ones, let alone even buying table packs.

 

[Startyde]

Seems to me that the easiest solution here is just to post patch notes. It was stated that the reported bugs are logged in a DB. I imgaine the fix is also logged. How hard could it be to export notes?

That way, the community can actually direct their anger over what isn't being addressed, while also giving praise to what is. Informatioin High for the Win!

 

[Mmmbacon]

Ya'll can stop requesting patch notes, cause it ain't gonna happen. With the passion displayed here on the forum and the ignorance on the facebook page, there is no way in heck they are going to set themselves up to have people micromanage each patch. Example. Hypothetical patch note says "fixed low res backglass on psn black knight". Then something happens at the last minute and they pull the fix but don't update the patch notes. Now along with cries of missed release date, add the cacophony of every psn TPA're posting. "yo the backglass isn't fixed". Now they've been perceived as making a mistake. Without patch notes, the psn'ers weren't let down, and I quite frankly would do the same thing. Farsight has too many irons in the fire right now, I surely wouldn't add that kindling to the blaze. Does that make it right? I don't know. I do know that some companies post detailed patch notes. Others don't. Just remember the above is just one silverballer's little opinion

 

[Sinistar]

Ya'll can stop requesting patch notes, cause it ain't gonna happen. With the passion displayed here on the forum and the ignorance on the facebook page, there is no way in heck they are going to set themselves up to have people micromanage each patch. Example. Hypothetical patch note says "fixed low res backglass on psn black knight". Then something happens at the last minute and they pull the fix but don't update the patch notes. Now along with cries of missed release date, add the cacophony of every psn TPA're posting. "yo the backglass isn't fixed". Now they've been perceived as making a mistake. Without patch notes, the psn'ers weren't let down, and I quite frankly would do the same thing. Farsight has too many irons in the fire right now, I surely wouldn't add that kindling to the blaze. Does that make it right? I don't know. I do know that some companies post detailed patch notes. Others don't. Just remember the above is just one silverballer's little opinion

Oh I do agree , once they say anything in forums , it's held hostage or treated as a promise . Am I upset that Twilight Zone got postponed until December for my console of choice? Sure, but I know FarSight really hoped to fulfill the delivery time they predicted. If you check the beta tester thread here , you can see they are working hand in hand with the testers chasing down bugs on what is a very complex table . Since I have only $4.99 to my PSn account , i'm skipping Scared Stiff and Big Shot anyways. By the time new tables are released I'll be ready to play rhe game again , Im a bit bored of them for now .

 

[Startyde]

Hypothetical patch note says "fixed low res backglass on psn black knight". Then something happens at the last minute and they pull the fix but don't update the patch notes.

Again, in this scenario, this would be their problem to continue to release things without verification. I love FS for the effort they do, but keep in mind, this isn't a fan community or non profit we're talking about. We're talking about a company that lives and breathes by how much they can sell digital pinball, in a battlefield that has at least one other major competitor. The current strategy of keeping all fans in the dark always might stop from brush fires in the short term, but as a long term strategy, makes the whole operation look a bit child's play. Also just the opinion of a one silverballer.