Has anyone done a genuine side by side comparison?

[1adam12]

I did a search in the forums, and may have missed it

I've seen through one or two video clips the mobile and console experiences for TPA and Zen are very different from mobile. I tried to find a video to compare the two games when it comes to the physics. On mobile, to me, Zen is simply not pinball. It's very Pinball-like, but the physics are what I'm used to with Zen. They're weird and usually predictable.

I was hoping to find a video where someone did a side by side comparison with the Zen extras turned off. Is anyone aware of one?

Is it possible that the mobile market is just a way for them to pick up a quick buck anymore?

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[wilbers]

Haven't seen videos of the mobile versions (nor have I looked for them), but there is comparison of the different physics options and with TPA in Billy Crow's Williams FX3 videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/Croooow111/videos

 

[1adam12]

Haven't seen videos of the mobile versions (nor have I looked for them), but there is comparison of the different physics options and with TPA in Billy Crow's Williams FX3 videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/Croooow111/videos

Thanks. I saw his stuff come up before. I detest videos where the host has to insert themselves into a corner of the screen. I don't want a show. I don't want to see you. I just want to watch a video about this thing I'm interested in.

Now get off my lawn!

I appreciate everyone wanting their 15 minutes, but if vanity could take a back seat, that would be awesome.

Yes. I'm old and cranky. Why do you ask?

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[msilcommand]

I did a search in the forums, and may have missed it

I've seen through one or two video clips the mobile and console experiences for TPA and Zen are very different from mobile. I tried to find a video to compare the two games when it comes to the physics. On mobile, to me, Zen is simply not pinball. It's very Pinball-like, but the physics are what I'm used to with Zen. They're weird and usually predictable.

I was hoping to find a video where someone did a side by side comparison with the Zen extras turned off. Is anyone aware of one?

Is it possible that the mobile market is just a way for them to pick up a quick buck anymore?

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

The Williams game on Android has extra visuals and pro physics as something you need to earn on the tables, even tables you bought (I believe). In the upper half of the menu when choosing practice or play, there are options to turn on/off affects, such as pro physics.

The default physics are definitely Zen's original style physics (light alloy metal-ish ball, vacuums making shots more scripted, sort of leather-soft feel to walls, flipper magnet affects, ball trails, less bounce), but tuned to be a little tougher (more bounce, less flipper magnet affect, little heavier feel to the ball, harder walls).

I believe, as usual, their challenge modes or dailies are always in their normal physics. I am not sure on this, but I believe that is their norm.

Once you unlock the ability to turn on pro physics, it is notably harder, faster, and less forgiving. There is very little magnet affect or back spin to keep the ball on the flippers, flippers are a touch hotter, the table seems to be at a steeper angle, no vacuum affects to help your shots (you'll t throw bricks), and the slingshots seem hotter. Honestly I always play classic on PS4 or PC, but I rarely put on pro physics on my Android, because touch screen controls for flippers is not a great experience as it is, and I just use the Android mainly for practice and planning. If I got a controller to pop my android in, and it had a solid reaction time, I would play pro physics.

The only note I would have about Zen's physics on Android, PC, and PS4 is that the ball still feels like a chromed-alloy weight, rather than a solid steel ball. That seems to be their overall choice of style, and it makes the game faster, which I believe was their intention, and something they are probably going to stand by. I support it, because it gives me a variation on play from Farisght to Zen styles. Farsight definitely got closer to a solid steel ball feel, but they fell short in other areas with ball physics (notably that it sometimes feels like I am just knocking around a JPG of a ball).

 

[msilcommand]

https://giphy.com/gifs/Vbms1ieaDhY0HRSLPM

See image above for where the options are located in Williams Pinball on Android.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Zen have really dropped the ball when it comes to labeling their different physics options, whether it be on PC/Console or mobile.

"Single Player", "Classic Single Player", "Arcade", "Pro",.... it's all very confusing.

Why not just two (or three?) levels, with some consistency:

Easy (or some other name - I'm struggling) - this would be original "Zen"-style physics. The least forgiving settings.

Arcade - exactly how the table plays out of the box, with the recommended settings from the manual; in other words, how I'd reasonably expect the table to behave if I walked up to it in an arcade.

Pro - tournament set up: higher table rake, tournament rules, etc.

 

[msilcommand]

Zen have really dropped the ball when it comes to labeling their different physics options, whether it be on PC/Console or mobile.

"Single Player", "Classic Single Player", "Arcade", "Pro",.... it's all very confusing.

Why not just two (or three?) levels, with some consistency:

Easy (or some other name - I'm struggling) - this would be original "Zen"-style physics. The least forgiving settings.

Arcade - exactly how the table plays out of the box, with the recommended settings from the manual; in other words, how I'd reasonably expect the table to behave if I walked up to it in an arcade.

Pro - tournament set up: higher table rake, tournament rules, etc.

Well, it's a video game, and Zen is trying to make pinball accessible while making the purists at least somewhat happy. Zen is flourishing, while just about all digital pinball companies before them have faded away.

Sure, I would have loved for the Call of Duty games to have realistic physics for JUMPING, running, pulling out weapons or exchanging weapons, reloading, recoil, affects of being hit, etc. But the few games that tried to flirt with that never made it out alive. You have to have a strong entry point for newbs, along with a high "fun factor" right off the bat. Honestly, Zen's practice mode on the Williams tables, almost doubled my high score on all of the tables, except Black Rose, because I just don't like playing that table much. I went back to TPA and blasted my old high scores on those tables. That right there is what it is all about. Having practice mode, with or without their normal Zen physics, I was able to just play non-stop and practice my game planning, which has massively affected my overall skill on those tables digitally and, I am betting, in real life.

Zen pretty much has a normalized approach to how they do their physics for Fx3. They experiment with different approaches on mobile. For example, I liked Zen's alien pinball economy best, but I never put in money, and deleted it after I earned the tables, making Zen no money...so that's not a good economy for them. So, they tried something different in Williams, and so on. I am guessing that moving fwd they will have Zen physics by default on everything, and pro physics or "classic" as a hard-mode option.

They seem to be smartly following the style of normal - hard - expert modes in gaming

 

[1adam12]

Zen have really dropped the ball when it comes to labeling their different physics options, whether it be on PC/Console or mobile.

"Single Player", "Classic Single Player", "Arcade", "Pro",.... it's all very confusing.

Why not just two (or three?) levels, with some consistency:

Easy (or some other name - I'm struggling) - this would be original "Zen"-style physics. The least forgiving settings.

Arcade - exactly how the table plays out of the box, with the recommended settings from the manual; in other words, how I'd reasonably expect the table to behave if I walked up to it in an arcade.

Pro - tournament set up: higher table rake, tournament rules, etc.

THIS.

I've noticed the changes in play between the challenge mode and arcade mode. I have no idea why that should even be a thing.

Even in arcade mode it seems as though their games operate with slightly different rule sets than TPA.

I think Cosmic Diner is the table I chose on Android. I played once on here and then on TPA. The TPA table just flowed so much better.

I think people have successfully explained the differences in the physics in Zen from one type to another, but just the fact that's even a thing removes it even further from being a pinball sim for me.

The graphics are awesome, and it has its place. Having tried it both on Android and iPad, I've definitely forgiven TPA for many of their sins. Not all, but many.

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[Kolchak357]

Zen have really dropped the ball when it comes to labeling their different physics options, whether it be on PC/Console or mobile.

"Single Player", "Classic Single Player", "Arcade", "Pro",.... it's all very confusing.

Why not just two (or three?) levels, with some consistency:

Easy (or some other name - I'm struggling) - this would be original "Zen"-style physics. The least forgiving settings.

Arcade - exactly how the table plays out of the box, with the recommended settings from the manual; in other words, how I'd reasonably expect the table to behave if I walked up to it in an arcade.

Pro - tournament set up: higher table rake, tournament rules, etc.

Yes, somethng like - Novice, Normal, Pro would be great. Love your idea. It is confusing.

 

[msilcommand]

Yes, somethng like - Novice, Normal, Pro would be great. Love your idea. It is confusing.

I can agree their naming could be updated. Since they default to a novice mode (necessarily so), they should just call it Normal | Hard | Brutal, even though to purists it will be annoying.

I say this, because gamers are generally massive toolbags, and they'll think "novice" is for chumps, so they'll up it to "normal", get frustrated that THEY suck, say the game sucks, and then dump the game. That's bad for Zen. This is a reality that game makers have to adjust to. It's not an option.

Edit: TPA didn't make room for newbs and the masses of gamer chodes that put money in the bank for game makers, so they have always struggled.

 

[trash80]

Zen have really dropped the ball when it comes to labeling their different physics options, whether it be on PC/Console or mobile.

"Single Player", "Classic Single Player", "Arcade", "Pro",.... it's all very confusing.

Why not just two (or three?) levels, with some consistency:

Easy (or some other name - I'm struggling) - this would be original "Zen"-style physics. The least forgiving settings.

Arcade - exactly how the table plays out of the box, with the recommended settings from the manual; in other words, how I'd reasonably expect the table to behave if I walked up to it in an arcade.

Pro - tournament set up: higher table rake, tournament rules, etc.

The reason it is set up the way it is has been covered elsewhere, but basically Zen already had specific labels in place for playing with enhancements like power ups and passive bonuses which is your standard Single Player experience and the "classic" single player setting is play without any sort of these enhancements. This same vernacular then carried over to the WMS tables. Single Player is with these enhancements, and Classic Single Player is without, with an additional option to use Arcade (new Williams real physics) or Tournament (new Williams real physics with steeper slope and a modified ruleset).

Could it be labeled differently? Sure, but it has been this way for years and once you know what the menu selections are, it makes perfect sense.

 

[msilcommand]

TBH I rarely play FX3 in Single Player (novice) mode. I only do it in quick games or matchups. It's too easy and silly for me that way thinking of it as a pinball game experience. However, I understand that they have to default to this mode so they can make money and keep making us awesome **** to play.

If there is a board somewhere that reports the numbers of players on FX3 playing in single player vs classic mode, I would be willing to bet the masses are playing in single player, by far.

 

[trash80]

THIS.

I've noticed the changes in play between the challenge mode and arcade mode. I have no idea why that should even be a thing.

Even in arcade mode it seems as though their games operate with slightly different rule sets than TPA.

I think Cosmic Diner is the table I chose on Android. I played once on here and then on TPA. The TPA table just flowed so much better.

I think people have successfully explained the differences in the physics in Zen from one type to another, but just the fact that's even a thing removes it even further from being a pinball sim for me.

The graphics are awesome, and it has its place. Having tried it both on Android and iPad, I've definitely forgiven TPA for many of their sins. Not all, but many.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

I'm not even sure what game you are playing.

On the mobile version of Williams Pinball, the physics do not change unless you have purchased (or unlocked) the PRO physics package and then use that setting to play. It requires your tables to be fully unlocked (4 stars).

Also, anyone thinking that the mobile version of any pinball game is going to be representative of an honest to goodness realistic pinball simulation is expecting way too much, and it just isn't there (mainly to due the user interface and form factor).

 

[msilcommand]

I'm not even sure what game you are playing.

On the mobile version of Williams Pinball, the physics do not change unless you have purchased (or unlocked) the PRO physics package and then use that setting to play. It requires your tables to be fully unlocked (4 stars).

Also, anyone thinking that the mobile version of any pinball game is going to be representative of an honest to goodness realistic pinball simulation is expecting way too much, and it just isn't there (mainly to due the user interface and form factor).

Exactly my feeling. It's a mobile game, even with a controller attached, it is still going to be lacking even on the best phones and with the best game development.

 

[shutyertrap]

The flippers in 'zen' mode have the same angle as what is used in TPA (yes I did screen shots and compared when first released)

But if you play in 'Arcade' mode or on mobile 'Pro physics', the flipper bats have a shallower angle that matches what you'd typically find in an arcade machine. And then of course there's all those other aspects of physics to make things tougher. On PC I play using Arcade, but on mobile I prefer easy because yeah, it's hard enough seeing a bb sized ball on a small screen with your thumbs in the way, now throw in brutal physics?

Oh, and to anyone that prefers the lighting in TPA, I'll point out that the above image is how FarSight presents the table straight out of the box, no adjustments. Just yuck. And no amount of tweaking of the lighting is going to fix the colors and lack of contrast.

Here's a shot showing the difference of flipper angle...

 

[Citizen]

If only Zen would take the incorrect lightning flippers off Black Rose.

 

[msilcommand]

If only Zen would take the incorrect lightning flippers off Black Rose.

I didn't know the flippers were wrong. Makes a lot of sense. I really don't like that table in any of Zen's games. I haven't played it elsewhere though, so maybe I just don't like the table. The auto plunge on Android sails right down the center drain half the time.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Well, I just upgraded AFM to 4* on Android, and, wow, the Pro Physics are brutal. I didn't even clear a billion points and I was playing for about half an hour. It really sucks when the kickout from Stroke Of Luck can go STDM about 20% of the time.

Then switched back to the Daily Challenges (I got the last part I needed for AFM on the Basic), and drew ToM for the Advanced challenge. The ball was all floaty by comparison.

I didn't think there was a way to use the "Zen"-style physics on mobile. There's only "Arcade" (aka "Classic Single Player") and "Pro".

 

[trash80]

If only Zen would take the incorrect lightning flippers off Black Rose.

Many European (where Zen is located) bound pins would get lightning flippers as that is what the owner/operators requested.

Black Rose was designed for and included lightning flippers from the factory. There are a few others, like Fish Tales that were designed for them too.

You can find more detailed info on Pinside.

 

[trash80]

Well, I just upgraded AFM to 4* on Android, and, wow, the Pro Physics are brutal. I didn't even clear a billion points and I was playing for about half an hour. It really sucks when the kickout from Stroke Of Luck can go STDM about 20% of the time.

Then switched back to the Daily Challenges (I got the last part I needed for AFM on the Basic), and drew ToM for the Advanced challenge. The ball was all floaty by comparison.

I didn't think there was a way to use the "Zen"-style physics on mobile. There's only "Arcade" (aka "Classic Single Player") and "Pro".

Mobile Arcade mode is just not "Challenge" mode and uses the updated WMS 'Zen' physics. It has nothing in common with the classic single player WMS Arcade physics setting in the console and PC version.