Hey Farsight, Take a Break!

[Tabe]

I'm curious about the pink hue problem that's been discussed so much lately. I've seen that pinkness in the upcoming table screenshots which FS posts to Facebook since the beginning of this year. I'm just wondering why I'm just reading about it here now? I don't frequent the PS3 subforum (because I don't play TPA on that platform) so I'm sure it's been discussed there but why is everybody talking about it now? I'm not saying that people shouldn't be upset about it, just wondering why it took so long.

If you're just reading it now, it's because you missed it every other time it was brought up. Seriously, it's been discussed dozens of times and not just in the PS3 forums. I've mentioned it in other screenshot threads and it has been discussed all over the place beyond those.

 

[Nightwing]

You know what? The PS3 people at least have tables to play. The 360 users have next to nothing,along with most of the PS3 complaints on what few tables that they might have.

I want the bugs in TPA fixed just as much as the next person. Yeah,the console people have gotten the short end of the stick in regards to updates,new tables & fixes - but the majority of that blame falls to Microsoft & Sony for their online policies regarding updates & DLC for the current systems. If they stick with the policy changes that they have talked about for the Xbox One & PS4 - then those systems should see bug fixes & newer content a lot faster then the current ones.

That wasn't a matter of misuse, it was a matter of stupidity. When you need to sell 3 million copies of your first game just to break even, that tells you something.

It was both. It's too bad,really - KOS is a decent game. It even sold pretty well,all things considered.
My point is it doesn't take long for things to turn sour if you don't plan or anticipate problems down the road. Just look at Zygna now compared to just two years ago...

 

[Samandor]

Fine idea as long as having the Pro menus doesn't become a necessity to be competitive on leaderboards or GC, like the +2 ball option on Zaccaria pinball is.

Agreed, and maybe this warrants discussion. Adding functions for backglass clearly have no more than a possible psychological advantage. Adding control functions gets into the area of aftermarket and third-party control devices, which have become a given in the rest of the gaming industry. Functions unique to pinball mainly have to do with using the accelerometers in certain devices to effect a nudge, instead of a button or touch zone on a tablet. So, for example - if functionality was added in Pro mode that would allow me to use my iPad to shake nudge on the Mac, would that give me an unfair advantage over those who hate the shake nudge anyway, and prefer buttons?

I don't really care about the competitive ramifications; just know how I prefer to play.

 

[Echeos]

You've got to assume that anyone who's registered here actually cares about the game. If they didn't, they wouldn't be here. So when they ask for bugs to be fixed it's because they enjoy the game and intend on playing it in the future, not just because they want to get their way. If this were a buggy and bad game I wouldn't be here. But the sad thing is I'm here not just because I love TPA but because hitting some pretty big bugs (none of the tables loading, my local backup not restoring, Cirqus Voltaire) forced me to Google solutions.

People defend FarSight with the "it's a business" line, which is right and proper, but "I'm their customer" is the counter to that. I paid for a product and it should be fit for its purpose. As it stands, it's the buggiest game I've played, probably on any platform ever (and I played Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines). It's certainly the buggiest I've played on iOS; the only ones that came close are Mirror's Edge and Geometry Wars and they aren't even in the same league, revolving mostly around high scores issues.

Given that all we know about FarSight's business model is speculation it's only fair that people question the seemingly punishing release schedule they work to. Again, the defense is that they have to focus on new revenue streams (in the form of new platforms and new tables). But what happens when the game hits these new formats and the reviewers encounter the kind of game ending bugs so many of us have? Won't potentially poor reviews result in a loss of sales? People talk about how this topic has been done to death here, and you can pretty much assume that as long as the issues remain the topic will continue to be flogged; won't that result in more search results which have something negative to say about the game until these issues are fixed?

As for new tables, the only people buying them are existing fans. If they become disheartened won't that revenue stream also dry up? If it's a mistake to cater to "hardcore" fans by fixing bugs then why alienate the very customer base that provides you with revenue for new tables? Of course, the fact is, FarSight are sitting pretty because they're the only game in town when it comes to emulating real tables. Just because their model has worked for them so far does not mean it is a good or sustainable one. Eventually it will meet with the law of diminishing returns and fans are right to be concerned that when it does so some of the major bugs will remain unresolved.

 

[Gorgar]

Absolutely not!!! Quantity over quality. But then again, this is my biased ps3-talking ass talking.

 

[canuck]

As for new tables, the only people buying them are existing fans. If they become disheartened won't that revenue stream also dry up? If it's a mistake to cater to "hardcore" fans by fixing bugs then why alienate the very customer base that provides you with revenue for new tables? Of course, the fact is, FarSight are sitting pretty because they're the only game in town when it comes to emulating real tables. Just because their model has worked for them so far does not mean it is a good or sustainable one. Eventually it will meet with the law of diminishing returns and fans are right to be concerned that when it does so some of the major bugs will remain unresolved.

How is it you figure that only existing fans are buying new tables? When T2 comes out I bet they'll get a WHOLE lot of new players, just for that single high profile game. The same happened with Star Trek. When Adams Family finally gets the go ahead, there will be a whole other group of new players.

Adding new tables, tweaking the physics, adding new features here and there incrementally, it all adds up. On the whole, I think FS is doing as well as they can --- which is pretty damn good!

 

[Echeos]

How is it you figure that only existing fans are buying new tables?

It's speculation on my part but my logic is that the only people aware that new tables are being released are people who are already interested in TPA i.e. existing players. Are there really people out there keeping an eye on the table releases who don't have the game?

When T2 comes out I bet they'll get a WHOLE lot of new players, just for that single high profile game. The same happened with Star Trek. When Adams Family finally gets the go ahead, there will be a whole other group of new players.

I don't know for sure but would it not be the case that back then Star Trek was a tipping point? That is, there were now enough good tables emulated and so it brought in a new wave of players? Are there really people out there waiting for a specific table to be released before diving into the game? Maybe so, but I would question the decision to focus on them again, as they represent a once off gain to revenues (they only want that specific table, no others) rather than the repeat revenues of people who are interested in pinball generally.

 

[canuck]

Well, its all speculation, only FS with their access to sales data would know the answer to that.
However, I'd bet their audience size continues to grow.

 

[Samandor]

However you slice it, releasing two new tables every month is unsustainable over the long haul. Sounds like there's something of a consensus amongst the faithful that releasing tables at, say, half that rate would be OK, in order to fix bugs and add functionality, and there are possibilities in the latter that could generate new revenue.

 

[Lord Boron]

I'm not in that consensus, or am I not among "the faithfull"? They're addressing issues on mobile, and the consoles have issues with patching that are beyond thier control.

Another thing to consider is that thier licensing with the table manufacture is not indefinite. If they release half as many tables and the license runs out, then that's it. We get half as many tables, and they get half as much profit, perhaps not enough to renew the license. I think two a month is a good balance.

 

[Samandor]

Good points; hadn't considered the convoluted licensing issues. Anyway, a balance has to be achieved between the various demands, and not all possibilities for new revenue have to be dependent on new tables. Meanwhile, for all its faults, this is a pretty danged cool gaming system, and a great value - would you be willing to pay more for new games, if your concerns were addressed?

 

[superballs]

The point is that bugs are being taken care of. One large one that comes to mind is the ball through the flippers bug, that was finally addressed. They have to be able to recreate the bug and they have to ensure as well as they can fix the bugs without introducing new ones. Regression testing is extremely important.

Problem is, everyone has that one bug that they want fixed now. FS can not cater to everyone at once, so the few that are left happy leave a lot that aren't because their bug didn't get fixed right away. You need to think of the larger picture here.

 

[clembo2021]

The point is that bugs are being taken care of. One large one that comes to mind is the ball through the flippers bug, that was finally addressed.

Why do people keep saying this? It was NOT fixed. I still get ball through the flipper all the time off the Insanity Falls shot when I try to hold the left flipper up to let it roll over to the right flipper.

 

[sotie]

Sounds like there's something of a consensus amongst the faithful that releasing tables at, say, half that rate would be OK, in order to fix bugs and add functionality

I don't agree that it's a consensus. I think you can consider everyone here in this forum "the faithful" otherwise we wouldn't take the time to be here. If you're taking count then count my vote for 2 tables per month.

 

[Ark Malmeida]

As someone that's been patiently waiting for the 360 version to make it's triumphant return (although I do play some on my Android tablet), I also vote for them to keep up the 2 tables per month pace. That way when they DO finally get to return on 360, I'll have lots of already built tables to enjoy. As someone that's done software development for years, I fully accept the way that Farsight is running their releases, balancing monthly releases, new platform development and bug fixes. Of course I would love for the tables to be 100% bug-free, but the realities of business make them prioritize only the major bugs and then trickle out fixes and improvements as their schedule allows. Besides, none of the bugs really affect my enjoyment of the tables as of right now so when the fixes do arrive it will just be gravy.

 

[Clawhammer]

I don't agree that it's a consensus. I think you can consider everyone here in this forum "the faithful" otherwise we wouldn't take the time to be here. If you're taking count then count my vote for 2 tables per month.

Same.

 

[gooche77]

Me too

 

[drdrey]

Me also.

 

[jaredmorgs]

Two tables. Keep then coming.

 

[DeeEff]

Me too

I disagree with gooche's agreement - no argument here.

waitaminit...