How much would an Addams Family pinball kickstarter be?

[sotie]

So what happened to this table coming out in December? was that the usual baseless speculation?

Who said that?

Since FS ran two kickstarter's last year people were speculating there would be a 2nd this year also. FS mentioned that they're trying to make Addams Family happen as the next kickstarter in the T2 kickstarter comments.

I have a feeling we're at least a couple months away from a new kickstarter because there have been a lot of pinball related kickstarter projects lately.

 

[brakel]

Since FS ran two kickstarter's last year people were speculating there would be a 2nd this year also. FS mentioned that they're trying to make Addams Family happen as the next kickstarter in the T2 kickstarter comments.

I have a feeling we're at least a couple months away from a new kickstarter because there have been a lot of pinball related kickstarter projects lately.

That's what I was thinking. No one said it.

 

[Mark W**a]

I hear you guys.

We can argue all day "how iconic" or "how successful" all day.

But my question to you guys is: how, exactly, would this Kickstarter be more expensive than Terminator or Star Trek?

I mean can you really argue that it would cost more? Why, and based off what exactly ? Again, the films were not as big as T2 and there are no actors associated with it on the level of Arnold Swarzenegger, so where are the high costs coming from?

Cristopher Loyd is the biggest star on the table, not Raul Julia btw. And I love the Doc but come on, you think he's going to ask for more money than Arnold to use his likeness?

And you guys kind of ignored my point about "ip relevancy".

Terminator, Star Trek, Indiana Jones, Lord of the Rings, Simpsons, Family Guy, Pirates of the Caribean, or Metallica are going to be more expensive to license than Twilight Zone and Addams Family.

I'm not a know it all, this is still just speculation, I just can't imagine where the costs would come from. I feel like it will cost exactly as much as Twilight Zone, maybe a little more, or a little less, but not as much as the mainstream, current, mega licenses I've listed above.

 

[vpalmer]

i wonder: how Zen could obtain such licenses as Star Wars and bunch of Marvel comics without kickstarter and other crowdfunding..

 

[Björn Wessman]

i wonder: how Zen could obtain such licenses as Star Wars and bunch of Marvel comics without kickstarter and other crowdfunding..

Joint venture. Marvel/Disney probably gets >90% of the profits.

 

[vpalmer]

Joint venture. Marvel/Disney probably gets >90% of the profits.

even if your GUESSING is right: it looks like this "joint venture" is still enough profitable for Zen, because they continue to release new Star Wars tables (another bunch of them will realese soon).

 

[netizen]

i wonder: how Zen could obtain such licenses as Star Wars and bunch of Marvel comics without kickstarter and other crowdfunding..

Microsoft is their publisher. Many of the og FX Tables MS owns the rights to, which gives some funny impressions on the way the deal worked out.

 

[vpalmer]

Solitude, just answered what FS has exclusive rights for recreations otherwise they could do few tables.
so its looks like we'll have that bad textured and modeled nightmare until FS's license agreement will go to the end or conscience of FS's artists will awake.

 

[gooche77]

Joint venture. Marvel/Disney probably gets >90% of the profits.

That's a ridiculously high number. Royalty rates normally hover around 10% but can go as high as 20%. (Wife has worked w/ Pro Athletes and Disney for likeness rights)

 

[shutyertrap]

But my question to you guys is: how, exactly, would this Kickstarter be more expensive than Terminator or Star Trek?

I mean can you really argue that it would cost more? Why, and based off what exactly ? Again, the films were not as big as T2 and there are no actors associated with it on the level of Arnold Swarzenegger, so where are the high costs coming from?

And you guys kind of ignored my point about "ip relevancy".

Allow me to give my answer then.

There are 7 actors on the back glass and in the marketing for TAF. In T2, there are only 2 on the table, and only Ah-nold in the marketing flyers. It could be argued, since there was no mention of Robert Patrick getting paid, that certain images of actors on the table are not actual likenesses of them, and therefore do not need pay. With TAF that would leave Raul, Angelica, and Christopher as the actors most clearly recognizable in likeness. However, you look at the flyer, and there's the actual photos of all the actors. Even still, would all 7 combined cost the same as Arnold? Probably not, except for one thing. The Julia estate may not want to deal with licensing, and therefore might have an inflated rate just to scare everyone off. Apart from images, you also have the voice work of Raul and Angelica to pay for. Finally, there is the music, which is the iconic Addams theme, versus the generic T2 music that was created solely for the game.

Comparing the cost of the actual 'name' of the license, Terminator vs Addams, also brings up some interesting things of note. Specifically, the cost of licensing Terminator was ONLY for T2, and no other Terminator property. With Addams, is much like Twilight Zone where it is all encompassing. That means not only Paramount is being dealt with, but the Addams estate. The Addams estate is known to be quite prickly with rights, and there again you enter into an overinflated cost. For the record, FS got the T2 license for a steal, which is part of the reason they needed to rush the kickstarter out the door.

Finally, IP relevancy. I'm not gonna argue that Addams has more cache than Terminator right now. It simply doesn't. There is something to be said for an IP though that has been around for over 60 years and is still recognizable by a sizeable chunk of the populace. Sometimes the most popular IP can actually be cheaper to get, due to them getting so many avenues of income as opposed to a very narrow stream.

Now then, have I made valid arguments as to why a lot of us feel it will cost more? Or can I throw one more at you? Bobby himself told me that they thought Addams would be very expensive, but until they actually got the people on the phone, they wouldn't know for sure. So if even he is speculating as much, I think I stand on solid ground.

 

[xRauLx77]

I think this discussion its just leveling up more value to the license. Since licenses are not "products", but how much "appeal" value it has, this whole topic just got TAF skyrocket.


BUT, I'm just guessing ok? Im no expert on this issue, and even here in Brazil TAF pinball has a huge number of fans who would sell their whole collection for a brand new one(real life machines if its not clear)...

 

[Father Time]

Hey you know what, I can search the internet too! (which was a point I was making to the original OP)

In adjusted inflation dollars, Addams Family made $188 million domestic. There's not a studio around today that wouldn't call that anything but a huge success, a definitely not "mild".

The TV show had ratings that averaged a 23.1! Do you realize how many households that means? Any TV show today would kill for numbers like that.

For a show that is 50+ years old, a movie that is 20+ years, that theme song sure is still ever present. Watch any NBA game, you're bound to hear it. Now, go ahead and hum the theme to the Munsters off the top of your head. Go on, I'll wait

Duh duh duhn duhn duh duh duhn duhn duh duh duhn duhn <strings> doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo dooy doo doo dooy doo doo.

Man this is harder to do in text than I thought but the point is I can do it. I'll concede that the Addams family theme is catchier and more iconic, but I've never seen the Addams Family anything before. I have seen the Munsters on TV without looking for them.

 

[Father Time]

I can prove to you the Addams Family is less iconic than the other Kickstarters.

They're still making Star Trek movies (true it's not TNG but it's still Star Trek) so that crosses that out.

As for the others?

In Disneyworld and California Adventure they have a Twilight Zone ride (The Tower of Terror) that's pretty famous. In Universal Orlando they have a Terminator 2 3D attraction thing (the good 3D where it looks like things are coming out of you instead of just looking like they have depth). Not just the Terminator franchise in general, specifically Terminator 2. Does any other franchise have a ride dedicated to one movie? Didn't think so. They also had that ride in Universal Hollywood but I think it's been replaced by a Transformers ride.


Now does the Addams Family have a ride? No. So the other 3 are more iconic. And following this logic I can conclude that the Addams Family is less iconic than the Mummy movies without a trace of irony.

So there.

Edit: continuing with this train of thought I should point out that in Universal Hollywood the Back to the Future ride got replaced with the Simpsons ride (and IMO the Simpsons ride is a better ride) so maybe that means Back to the Future would be a cheaper license than the Simpsons.

 

[xRauLx77]

I can prove to you the Addams Family is less iconic than the other Kickstarters.

They're still making Star Trek movies (true it's not TNG but it's still Star Trek) so that crosses that out.

As for the others?

In Disneyworld and California Adventure they have a Twilight Zone ride (The Tower of Terror) that's pretty famous. In Universal Orlando they have a Terminator 2 3D attraction thing (the good 3D where it looks like things are coming out of you instead of just looking like they have depth). Not just the Terminator franchise in general, specifically Terminator 2. Does any other franchise have a ride dedicated to one movie? Didn't think so. They also had that ride in Universal Hollywood but I think it's been replaced by a Transformers ride.


Now does the Addams Family have a ride? No. So the other 3 are more iconic. And following this logic I can conclude that the Addams Family is less iconic than the Mummy movies without a trace of irony.

So there.

Edit: continuing with this train of thought I should point out that in Universal Hollywood the Back to the Future ride got replaced with the Simpsons ride (and IMO the Simpsons ride is a better ride) so maybe that means Back to the Future would be a cheaper license than the Simpsons.

THIS!!!!!!

But you must agree that this whole mythology being build under TAF is doing more bad things for it to happen on Pinball Arcade than good right?

We know its a pretty awesome table. We know her numbers. But acting like "OMG BRING ADDAMS FAMILY OR WE'LL DIE" can be used by the owners for pricing the license and f. Farsight(and us) good. A quick search over Facebook and here on the forum can make the owners think twice before selling away such a valuable IP. Am I wrong?

On TZ and STTNG, it was the beginning of KS founding tables. Maybe they(owners) were thinking "oh, just a virtual pinball, cmon..". On T2, things got more promoted, more vision, more appeal. Now, imagine you sitting on your desk, holding your Addams Family license, seeing all of this. There's no fixed price for licenses. What you have is unique. YOU define how much it cost based on how much profit it can bring. Thats how I think licenses products work. You can't say that a Disney product cost the same as a random-whatever cartoon around the globe(well put by Father Time explanation over other licenses).

If TAF were cheapest than we(some of us) tought, things are changing. Thats my opinion...

 

[DrainoBraino]

Now does the Addams Family have a ride? No. So the other 3 are more iconic. And following this logic I can conclude that the Addams Family is less iconic than the Mummy movies without a trace of irony.

So there.

Great logic, Aristotle.

The Addams Family has a Broadway musical that has been touring the World for the past 3 years. Does Twilight Zone, T2, or the Mummy have a currently touring broadway musical? ICONIC FTW

 

[Gorgar]

Great logic, Aristotle.

The Addams Family has a Broadway musical that has been touring the World for the past 3 years. Does Twilight Zone, T2, or the Mummy have a currently touring broadway musical? ICONIC FTW

No, but Creature from the Black Lagoon had one a few years ago.

 

[Father Time]

THIS!!!!!!

But you must agree that this whole mythology being build under TAF is doing more bad things for it to happen on Pinball Arcade than good right?

We know its a pretty awesome table. We know her numbers. But acting like "OMG BRING ADDAMS FAMILY OR WE'LL DIE" can be used by the owners for pricing the license and f. Farsight(and us) good. A quick search over Facebook and here on the forum can make the owners think twice before selling away such a valuable IP. Am I wrong?

Oh yes I agree.

Then again what are the odds they would actually browse this forum.

Still to be on the safe side I will say that I won't contribute anything to the kickstarter (unless me chipping in $5 means the difference between success and failure).

I'm serious though, I've never played the table, don't care about the Addams Family that much and I've been burned by buying games based off everyone's super hype before.

I'd definitely try the free demo though.

 

[Father Time]

How could you make a Twilight Zone musical?

Seriously the story and characters almost never stay the same episode to episode (yes I know they made a movie but that could just be an extra long episode but for a musical you'd need something special). I think you'd have better luck making a musical out of Mystery Science Theater 3000, you could even have "It's Movie Time" be the big number they reprise at the end.

 

[Captain B. Zarre]

Hey, Father Time,

This is why they won't make a MST3K musical. http://youtube.com/watch?v=gaduCx4Dkgg&desktop_uri=/watch?v=gaduCx4Dkgg

 

[brakel]

The reason that an Addams license might be more than a T2 license has nothing to do with popularity or box office or Q rating. It just has to do with that any one of the principles involved in the Addams Family could decide to put a huge sticker price on it because that's the price they want to be bothered with it. Arnold Schwarzenegger has lawyers and people. Arnold probably doesn't even know that he's in a virtual pinball machine game. If he even had a conversation about it then it was a 10 second brief from his manager/lawyer. He has standard rates for his likeness used and since his likeness and voice would be taken straight from the real table he wouldn't need to approve the end product.

Dealing with license holders who aren't used to doing business is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are going to get.