I Hate Drop Catching

[PoSTedUP]

I Hate Trapping/cradling

everyone has their own preference in play style. drop catching is performed a lot amongst pinball players, even the pros. I personally cannot use this method when playing pinball, for many reasons. for one, i like a challenge; catching the ball and having that extra time to think and plan where you are going to flip it, makes it easier, imo. when i step up to bat, i dont want someone to throw under-hand to me, i want their hardest, nastiest curve ball or fast ball. i also like the challenge in learning all of the different ball trajectorys on-the-fly, at all different speeds and angles; there are many of them and it feels like the game never gets old. then there is the speed of the game. i like my game fast with little stoppage, i may even sometimes avoid tables that have too much to say and show, other than play (e.g. circus volitare's long cut scenes etc) dont get me wrong, i love the table, i guess i can be impatient at times. i love fast, non-stop tables like Centaur and ToM. i just feel like having little time to think and hitting the ball on-the-fly is more of a chllenge and also improves my reaction time, over time.

everyone has their own reasons why they prefer a certain play style. there is no right, wrong or better way of playing (is there?) because what works for someone may not work for others, everyone is different. id like to hear your preferred play style and why. or even if you disagree with my opinion on the "easier" front, bc maybe im wrong? just keep it nice, please! )

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

I like to deliberately slow down the pace of the game because I am a methodical thinker. I can definitely see the appeal in on-the-fly play though. It's also more interesting to onlookers.

 

[PoSTedUP]

i see. taking time to plan the best strategy is always a good thing. i try and do that while in motion, but it often makes for harder shots, missed shots and chokes etc. i love that tho . i also use nudge just to line up a shot better, way more often than i use it to just keep the ball in play.

 

[danivempire]

I love drop catch, I just love it ^^

 

[DrainoBraino]

Drop catching is a particular technique. Are you referring to simply trapping or cradling the ball?

check out these techniques:
http://papa.org/play/techniques/intermediate-flipper-techniques/

 

[PoSTedUP]

Drop catching is a particular technique. Are you referring to simply trapping or cradling the ball?

check out these techniques:
http://papa.org/play/techniques/intermediate-flipper-techniques/

yes. trapping/catching in general.

 

[Jeff Strong]

I'm definitely a catch and shoot player. Goes hand-in-hand with my love of drop targets.

 

[PoSTedUP]

I'm definitely a catch and shoot player. Goes hand-in-hand with my love of drop targets.

yeah especially when you have to hit them in a specific order. im just getting the hang of flight 2k's drop targets.

 

[Espy]

If you don't cradle the ball you will not get very good scores, it's as simple as that. It's not cheating and it certainly doesn't make things easier - I have fumbled plenty of balls attempting to cradle them when I should have just redirected them.

 

[PoSTedUP]

If you don't cradle the ball you will not get very good scores, it's as simple as that. It's not cheating and it certainly doesn't make things easier - I have fumbled plenty of balls attempting to cradle them when I should have just redirected them.

i get pretty good scores, imo. 22M centaur, 6.4B ToM etc. and some of the top IFPA players play flow. i feel like cradling makes for slower and easier shots bc you have more time to think and focus, holding two balls in multiball while playing with just one etc. also. and just seems more complex and harder to have to think and hit the ball at the right trajectory and angle in an instant. but it's to each their own, just seems that way in theory i guess. i think the hardest thing in pinball is knowing all the rules for a table tbh, lol.

 

[Espy]

i get pretty good scores, imo. 22M centaur, 6.4B ToM etc. and some of the top IFPA players play flow. i feel like cradling makes for slower and easier shots bc you have more time to think and focus, holding two balls in multiball while playing with just one etc. also. and just seems more complex and harder to have to think and hit the ball at the right trajectory and angle in an instant. but it's to each their own, just seems that way in theory i guess. i think the hardest thing in pinball is knowing all the rules for a table tbh, lol.

Nothing wrong with enjoying a bit of flow. I was playing Monopoly last night and was quite happy hitting the centre ramp over and over, for no reason other than it was satisfying. But I really believe all the best players trap the ball. Not for every shot, of course. But if a ball is out of control you better try and stop it otherwise, chances are, it will drain.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

If you don't cradle the ball you will not get very good scores, it's as simple as that. It's not cheating and it certainly doesn't make things easier - I have fumbled plenty of balls attempting to cradle them when I should have just redirected them.

Not true--there are a few high-ranked PAPA players who, while they CAN cradle the ball, tend to prefer not to. They are rather rare though, and I can't remember whom. I know Andy Rosa can do well without having to do much slowing down of the game because he's very good at predicting ball trajectories and judging accordingly.

That being said, if I had a nickel for every time, between real pinball and virtual pinball, where I hold a flipper up, only to see the ball slowly drift past the tip and fall down the center drain, I'd go get one of those TinyPin scale models.

 

[PoSTedUP]

Nothing wrong with enjoying a bit of flow. I was playing Monopoly last night and was quite happy hitting the centre ramp over and over, for no reason other than it was satisfying. But I really believe all the best players trap the ball. Not for every shot, of course. But if a ball is out of control you better try and stop it otherwise, chances are, it will drain.

ive read some top players that perfer flow, maybe they do occasionally trap the ball, that i wouldnt know. what if you could gain control of the ball without trapping? its harder and more of a challenge . i use the nudge to line up/redirect my shots and gai back control. i do see the point in trapping the ball though, its just not for me, i guess.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

It's already enough of a challenge trying to beat the other players' scores even with trapping. That's the thing. Trapping and catching are easy ways to boost one's score, and by and large, competitive players are not going to pass that up. Deliberately choosing not to keep balls stopped on the flippers while playing competitively is like hitting a baseball and choosing not to let go of the bat as you run to first base: It's a handicap that could cost the best players some otherwise crucial victories.

If you're not playing competitively, anything goes. If you play better without stopping the ball, or you feel uncomfortable if the ball is ever stopped at a flipper, then that's the way you should do it.

Me, I almost never nudge. I have not yet conditioned myself to reflexively nudge, and I can't seem to get the technique right on a real machine, though I know it's a valid playing technique (though one that can sometimes create derision for onlookers). For the latter, that's because I'm a Goofy-level klutz and am afraid of tipping the machine over and crashing it on the floor. I've since learned that pinball machines have very good balance though. A bison could charge at it, and it won't tip over.

 

[PoSTedUP]

It's already enough of a challenge trying to beat the other players' scores even with trapping. That's the thing. Trapping and catching are easy ways to boost one's score, and by and large, competitive players are not going to pass that up. Deliberately choosing not to keep balls stopped on the flippers while playing competitively is like hitting a baseball and choosing not to let go of the bat as you run to first base: It's a handicap that could cost the best players some otherwise crucial victories.

If you're not playing competitively, anything goes. If you play better without stopping the ball, or you feel uncomfortable if the ball is ever stopped at a flipper, then that's the way you should do it.

Me, I almost never nudge. I have not yet conditioned myself to reflexively nudge, and I can't seem to get the technique right on a real machine, though I know it's a valid playing technique (though one that can sometimes create derision for onlookers). For the latter, that's because I'm a Goofy-level klutz and am afraid of tipping the machine over and crashing it on the floor. I've since learned that pinball machines have very good balance though. A bison could charge at it, and it won't tip over.

ROFL @ running to first base with the bat, haha. yeah, true. people are good at trapping and it definitely boosts their score. i always like to play harder, i guess, in everything. i still play competitively, and i dont complain if i lose bc it is my choice to play like that. i dont take anything away from anyone, or myself, due to a play style or their choice in how they play. if i cant beat them with my perferred style, even tho i feel it may be harder to master, its still an even match bc we both learned to master that style and it is what we are good at. anything goes, exactly. especially when you are playing in a league, it is best to be as careful as possible bc the pride in that sweet victory is worth more than w/e pride one may have in another sense (except for cheating).

ive gotting quick at nudging. its a lot easier in TPA than in real life, and if i nudged as much as i did in real life as i do in TPA, id probably get arthritis in my wrists, lol. ive learned to instinctively nudge the ball back into the inlane in Centaur in a split second while i have to worry about hitting 4 other balls. i dont do it all the time bc it is painstakingly hard to worrie about, and a lot of the time i jus say "**** it" and let the ball drain. lol. but yeah i had to learn to nudge well bc it is the only way for me to save a ball/gain back control, plus ive learned the trajectory pretty well to know where to put it most of the time to line up a shot. im no pro, by any means. but im always striving to get better and love a challenge. im the type of guy to bring a knife to a gun fight, hah.

 

[shutyertrap]

To me, denying yourself the opportunity to catch and cradle the ball is akin to a pool player not measuring angles this his cue, or a golfer not looking at the green before putting. Sure it can be done, but why would you avoid it?

I'm a camera assistant for TV and Film. The 1st AC (assistant camera) is responsible for "pulling" focus. What that means is, he is turning a knob that affects the distance of where the lens is focusing. Actor is 10 feet away, the 1st turns the know to 10'. Actor walks away to 20', the 1st must change the focus as they walk, always keeping them tack sharp. The trick is, we do this without actually looking through the eyepiece, as that's where the camera operator is. Prior to digital shoots, you'd see AC's with onboard monitors used as a reference, to see who the camera is actually pointing at. The prevalence of digital cameras though has made for a much tougher job of pulling focus (for reasons I won't go into here), and there are many who now look at a monitor and pull focus staring at that instead of where the actor is actually standing in relation to the distance from the camera.

It is a huge debate among old school and new school AC's, but a common thread that can be heard is, so long as the shot is in focus, who cares what method I use to get it? There is certainly a macho bravado that goes with going sans monitor, but I've seen those same people lose the job because of it. That being said, I think people that don't learn how to pull focus the old school way are also doing themselves a great disservice.

My point is, you have a tool box. Why limit yourself to using only half the tools? Because you like to make the job hard? I say, don't work hard, work smart. Otherwise why not play with only one hand, or use your feet, or cross your arms so the left is on the right flipper and the right is on the left?

BTW...did our podcast by any chance inspire this thread? We had a nice discussion about it there.

 

[PoSTedUP]

To me, denying yourself the opportunity to catch and cradle the ball is akin to a pool player not measuring angles this his cue, or a golfer not looking at the green before putting. Sure it can be done, but why would you avoid it?

I'm a camera assistant for TV and Film. The 1st AC (assistant camera) is responsible for "pulling" focus. What that means is, he is turning a knob that affects the distance of where the lens is focusing. Actor is 10 feet away, the 1st turns the know to 10'. Actor walks away to 20', the 1st must change the focus as they walk, always keeping them tack sharp. The trick is, we do this without actually looking through the eyepiece, as that's where the camera operator is. Prior to digital shoots, you'd see AC's with onboard monitors used as a reference, to see who the camera is actually pointing at. The prevalence of digital cameras though has made for a much tougher job of pulling focus (for reasons I won't go into here), and there are many who now look at a monitor and pull focus staring at that instead of where the actor is actually standing in relation to the distance from the camera.

It is a huge debate among old school and new school AC's, but a common thread that can be heard is, so long as the shot is in focus, who cares what method I use to get it? There is certainly a macho bravado that goes with going sans monitor, but I've seen those same people lose the job because of it. That being said, I think people that don't learn how to pull focus the old school way are also doing themselves a great disservice.

My point is, you have a tool box. Why limit yourself to using only half the tools? Because you like to make the job hard? I say, don't work hard, work smart. Otherwise why not play with only one hand, or use your feet, or cross your arms so the left is on the right flipper and the right is on the left?

BTW...did our podcast by any chance inspire this thread? We had a nice discussion about it there.

no it didnt, i havent listened to the podcast. and your comparisons are way off, no offense. youre comparing blind luck shots compared to a skillful shot off of a flipper; speed, timing and trajectory are all acounted for to make the shot actually go where you want it to. and like i said, its more of a challenge, imo, and i have a better time playing when i am challenged. im also a hardcore gamer so it may also come with the territory. i also personally feel more accomplished when i get a high score playing in what i feel is the more difficult scenario. also it has improved my reaction time, accuracy and nudging almost 10-fold from when i first started. so for me, it seems like it is doing myself a service than a disservice. a better comparison would be using a ghost ring sight or standard sights shooting a shotgun slug long range, opposed to using a rifle with a scope; which i can hit a doorknob with a slug at 70 yards. i just perfer the challenged. but shooting guns in general is fun as hell, so is playing pinball, so i just go with what i like the best for me personal preference.

 

[Squid]

I think the shotgun analogy is a little flawed. If you are hitting a doorknob at 70yds, I bet you are taking time to place your shot unless you're just poppin' off shots until you hit your target. This kind of stuff is my milieu. I don't wanna talk shop though.

Anyways, for the life or death situation as it pertains to pinball, I don't see why you wouldn't wanna be able to have an all around set of skills to deal with various situations as they arise.

 

[PoSTedUP]

I think the shotgun analogy is a little flawed. If you are hitting a doorknob at 70yds, I bet you are taking time to place your shot unless you're just poppin' off shots until you hit your target. This kind of stuff is my milieu. I don't wanna talk shop though.

Anyways, for the life or death situation as it pertains to pinball, I don't see why you wouldn't wanna be able to have an all around set of skills to deal with various situations as they arise.

i see what youre saying, and that is a good point. but i was only referring to the difficulty part and it being more of a challenge compared to a rifle with a scope, and i like challenges. and not just popping off shots, not to sound arrogant (but now that you mentioned it), ive grouped 3 slugs only an inch apart with one almost directly on top of the other at 65-70 yards, 3 in a row. mossbergh500 with ghost-ring sights. pictures and wittnesses. i didnt sight-in the gun tho, someone else did, and did a damn good job tbh. idk, we thought it was pretty impressive at the time.

it is always good to have different skills, but for games/pinball/sports, i like a challenge and would rather do it the hard way in this case, and not only bc it may be harder, its just more fun to have the balls going non-stop. i can cradle and have no problem doing so, its just not for me. its deff good to know both, imo. actually, right now Black Rose has a slight delay in the ball or flippers on the Vita and it is near impossible to get the trajectory right bc it throws me off big time. so if i do play it id have no other choice but to cradle more than i flow. so yeah in different situations it is definitely good to have different skills and know both.

do you shoot? im down to talk shop, i love guns, ive been shooting since i was 5-6.

 

[pin pin]

If you want to fight with it and "overpower" it with your reflexes, by all means do. But if you want to slow dance and "score"...