If FS is after authenticity, why the rule changes?

[ND3G]

Since FS has to provide the operators menu for TZ to those who pledged $100 (or more) for the kickstarter I suspect this option will be rolled out for most of the tables eventually (That is if it doesn't prove a complete disaster).

This should provide a great deal of table customization though not everything suggested here.

 

[Fungi]

Since FS has to provide the operators menu for TZ to those who pledged $100 (or more) for the kickstarter I suspect this option will be rolled out for most of the tables eventually.

But wouldn't that provide negative feedback from the people who dropped 100 bones for the privilege?

 

[ND3G]

But wouldn't that provide negative feedback from the people who dropped 100 bones for the privilege?

I paid $100 and I definitely don't expect unlimited exclusivity to the feature forever.

Given the headaches with having two versions of TPA on iOS I would just as soon see FS provide the feature to everyone rather than waste time trying to figure out the logistics of providing this feature exclusively to only 248 people.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

I paid $100 and I definitely don't expect unlimited exclusivity to the feature forever.

Given the headaches with having two versions of TPA on iOS I would just as soon see FS provide the feature to everyone rather than waste time trying to figure out the logistics of providing this feature exclusively to only 248 people.

While I can't speak for the other 246 of us, I concur. If the operator's menu feature ends up working great (either immediately or after a bit of struggle), I say open it up to the masses after some suitable interval.

It's just too compelling a feature to confine to a few hundred people - I'd rather see it help sell more tables, so that FS gets more revenue and can recreate more tables for all of us.

 

[PiN WiZ]

While I can't speak for the other 246 of us, I concur. If the operator's menu feature ends up working great (either immediately or after a bit of struggle), I say open it up to the masses after some suitable interval.

It's just too compelling a feature to confine to a few hundred people - I'd rather see it help sell more tables, so that FS gets more revenue and can recreate more tables for all of us.

As a member of the $100 group, I would also like everyone to have a chance at purchasing the operator's menu on every table in the future as long as it doesn't break the tables or cause any major problems when they're made available to the few hundred of us toward the end of the year.

 

[Gord Lacey]

I believe FarSight said that the Operator's Menu is difficult for them to implement because it increases the number of bugs that could exist in the table. The number of variables could be huuuuuge.

 

[Richard B]

I believe FarSight said that the Operator's Menu is difficult for them to implement because it increases the number of bugs that could exist in the table. The number of variables could be huuuuuge.

Couldn't they just limit the options to things that won't screw things up, such as number of balls, difficulty settings, whether or not to allow extra balls, and the like?

 

[Gord Lacey]

I think it would make more sense if they created modes - easy, normal and hard. Easy would have 5 balls, longer ball saver and some other tweeks, normal would be what we have now (and would count towards the high scores), and hard would be no ball saver, 3 balls, and other "friendly" things disabled.

 

[Tuomas Hämäläinen]

I think it would make more sense if they created modes - easy, normal and hard. Easy would have 5 balls, longer ball saver and some other tweeks, normal would be what we have now (and would count towards the high scores), and hard would be no ball saver, 3 balls, and other "friendly" things disabled.

Difficulty presets already exist in the games, at least in WPC systems, though it's a separate adjustment from balls per game, and I think it should be kept that way, to be as faithful to the original as possible.

----

I don't pretend to know the process and technology behind simulating all that pinball hardware, but if the playfield machinery as well as the controller boards are accurately simulated and all the inputs and outputs are there for the ROMs to see and use, I'm wondering why exactly is it difficult to have access to the operator menus... Shouldn't it be as simple as whipping up a UI that has the four switches inside the coin door and wiring those up to the simulated switch matrix? Again, just thinking out loud here.

 

[Matt McIrvin]

I don't pretend to know the process and technology behind simulating all that pinball hardware, but if the playfield machinery as well as the controller boards are accurately simulated and all the inputs and outputs are there for the ROMs to see and use, I'm wondering why exactly is it difficult to have access to the operator menus... Shouldn't it be as simple as whipping up a UI that has the four switches inside the coin door and wiring those up to the simulated switch matrix? Again, just thinking out loud here.

Speaking as a coder, I can actually sympathize with them here.

Implementing the operator settings would be easy; the problem is that once you implement something you have to support it, and there are that many more combinations of settings under which the tables have to be tested and debugged.

It's something Steve Maguire emphasizes in one of my favorite programming books, Writing Solid Code: features that fall "for free" out of the implementation are never really free, because once they're there you have to keep supporting them forever, even when the implementation changes.

Also, they have to figure out how all that interacts with online leaderboards and achievements (the simplest thing would be to only activate them with the default settings, but then that's another thing to make sure you get right).

 

[Matt McIrvin]

Also, they have to figure out how all that interacts with online leaderboards and achievements (the simplest thing would be to only activate them with the default settings, but then that's another thing to make sure you get right).

...Not to mention the high-score lists in the game itself. Do you somehow set up separate high-score lists for separate table settings, disable the high-score list for non-default settings, wipe the list when the settings change, or just let the high scores fall where they may and tell the users they're on their own? The first option adds complexity, and users are certain to complain about all the others.

 

[Brian Clark]

I don't understand the worst case senario constantly coming up. It's true that this is far from a simple thing, but stuff like difficulty modes and number of balls is part of the real machine. I get that it's not easy, but for a collection striving to be as realistic as possible, I would think a much bigger team would be a requirement (I love that a lot of platforms are supported, but I think Farsight is a bit overtaxed here). Zen just disables the high scores for alternate settings, though it's a much harder when dealing with combining a emulation of ROM code with simulations of the table elements. Personally, I just want to see them for completeness and the games that are too easy on the defaults. I know in both arcade machines and pinball the defaults are usually the most balanced settings. I rather not have them at all then the tease of a kickstarter bonus, though.

One thing I would like to see, since it was already done is the option for the alternate rules of Black Hole. Having the gates close on the bottom when a bumper or drop target is hit after being opened is interesting.

 

[Richard B]

One thing I would like to see, since it was already done is the option for the alternate rules of Black Hole. Having the gates close on the bottom when a bumper or drop target is hit after being opened is interesting.

No, it sucks, though there is a way to close the gate on the emulated version, though I'm not sure how you do it.

 

[Richard B]

I mess around with operator settings in VP all the time, and have yet to "break" a table.

 

[Heretic]

No, it sucks, though there is a way to close the gate on the emulated version, though I'm not sure how you do it.

Grins , an option for both but i think we can all agree the lower is harsh heh, i didnt mind until i kept opening a d swallowing.....no beer


Frankly the bumper hit is interesting for sweat but bad form for any fun no flow

 

[Richard B]

They also screwed up the lower playfield by making the flippers too close together. They're supposed to be farther apart, with a post between them (if you're lucky).

 

[Brian Clark]

They also screwed up the lower playfield by making the flippers too close together. They're supposed to be farther apart, with a post between them (if you're lucky).

I don't know why these issues keep popping up. First Black Hole, then MM. Black Hole they didn't have the real table until recently, but MM they got the flipper spacing right on PHoF and have a real table.

If they end up doing Fireball when they do EMs, it would be interesting to see how Farsight handles the zipper flippers.

 

[Rudy Yagov]

Richard, a table set to "free play" doesn't award a replay because the table is already "free," so it awards an extra ball.

Actually, those are separate settings. If it's set to free play, it will still award an imaginary credit unless you set the replay to award an extra ball.

 

[Eric Qel-Droma]

Do any of these tables support paid extra balls in real life? I'd really like to be able to extend some of my games like I can in the arcade (depending on machine, of course). I don't know if supporting that function would somehow screw everything up (adding features = added complexity, I get it), but it'd be cool.

 

[Bowflex]

Do any of these tables support paid extra balls in real life? I'd really like to be able to extend some of my games like I can in the arcade (depending on machine, of course). I don't know if supporting that function would somehow screw everything up (adding features = added complexity, I get it), but it'd be cool.

Theater of Magic does in real life. I want to say one of the others might but I can't remember for certain.