Request [iOS] [Android] Increase the audio compression bit rate for better-quality audio

[jaredmorgs]

In a "Real Pinball" forum thread about high-quality pinball soundracks, @sellenoff provided some insight into why audio on mobiles may sound a bit "lossy".

http://digitalpinballfans.com/showt...nal-Sound-Data?p=112736&viewfull=1#post112736

It's likely the fact that (the audio in the high quality soundtracks) is not compressed (like it is) for mobile devices. The original recorded audio was @ 44.1K IIRC and then down sampled to 11.25K for mobile and then (possibly?) further compressed when packed into the game resource. ( I recall seeing an ADPCM tag for the mobile resource packager ).

@Mike Reitmeyer could comment better about it.

...

Is there a technical reason why the audio is so heavily compressed on Android and iOS? I'd love to hear the audio at 22.1Khz (at a minimum) on mobile, but I'm not sure if older devices could handle the extra RAM required to cache the streamed sounds.

I know Ryan has had all sorts of issues with the Farsight audio mixer on Android. http://digitalpinballfans.com/showt...-the-Mechanical-Sound-Effect-Delay-in-Android documents the current status.

Also, for those interested about ADPCM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_differential_pulse-code_modulation

...
If the audio is being compressed, and mixed down to a single channel for mobile couldn't there be some additional audio pre-production being done? Things like removing as much of the overlapping frequencies as possible to allow for the samples to play cleaner/clearer with limited artifacting etc, and pre compression and limiting before the actual mp3/ogg compression and change in the sample rate. With the right application of multi-band compressors and eq work ahead of time, knowing what the compression algorithms will do to the audio file there can be attempts made to get the best possible product.

...

This is where the conversation ended on that thread.

Because some iOS and Android users may not frequent the Real Pinball sub-forum, I wanted to highlight this discussion here in General, and perhaps get some needed exposure/explanation about the issue.

Questions

Q: Would increasing the quality to 22.1K (which is perfect for the Mono sound format the Farsight Audio Mixer uses) would cause adverse effects on mobile platforms?

Q: Has larger bitrate audio been tested on Mobile in recent months? If so, how long ago?

 

[Jeff Strong]

Thanks for bringing this back up, Jared. I think it's a very important topic too. I would love to see higher quality sound on mobile. 22.1k should make a big difference, while still keeping the file size down.

Looking forward to hearing Farsight's response.

 

[neglectoid]

+1

 

[danivempire]

Totally agree ^^

 

[gsxrboy]

At some stage a decision needs to be made to start supporting the next base level of mobile devices to an appropriate degree. Be it A7 64bit iOS or whatever the next gen Android devices will be. Obviously it will be easier on iOS with A7 being almost std across the range already, but at least having the assets in the package to take advantage of the spec, i.e. graphics (shadows, reflections etc) or higher bitrate or sampling audio.

 

[norbert26]

At some stage a decision needs to be made to start supporting the next base level of mobile devices to an appropriate degree. Be it A7 64bit iOS or whatever the next gen Android devices will be. Obviously it will be easier on iOS with A7 being almost std across the range already, but at least having the assets in the package to take advantage of the spec, i.e. graphics (shadows, reflections etc) or higher bitrate or sampling audio.

only the newest iPad air and mini retina and iPhone 5s currently have the A7 processor / chipset. Many are still on older hardware including the iPhone 4 on the A4 chipset. iOS 7.x.x still runs on the old iPhone 4 so whatever is done has to be backwards compatible with older hardware still in use and will continue to be in use for some time to come. Another example is the 1st gen iPad mini still being sold / produced with only an A-5 chipset and the iPad 2 . Can't just throw these users under the bus.

 

[fenderbendr]

We need better sound quality. Even the menu music is mono and of low quality.

 

[jaredmorgs]

We need better sound quality. Even the menu music is mono and of low quality.

The music will always be mono in this generation of TPA. The bespoke audio mixer Farsight created is mono only. The audio quality can be improved, surely.

 

[gsxrboy]

only the newest iPad air and mini retina and iPhone 5s currently have the A7 processor / chipset. Many are still on older hardware including the iPhone 4 on the A4 chipset. iOS 7.x.x still runs on the old iPhone 4 so whatever is done has to be backwards compatible with older hardware still in use and will continue to be in use for some time to come. Another example is the 1st gen iPad mini still being sold / produced with only an A-5 chipset and the iPad 2 . Can't just throw these users under the bus.

You missed the point of my post, clearly stated in the very first words. Going forward from now, all new devices will be A7 64 bit as a base level. Start planning for that as being the lowest common denominator. I never said to stop supporting the previous models, just add high level options for the new gen, which will be the lowest gen in the not too distant future.

 

[norbert26]

You missed the point of my post, clearly stated in the very first words. Going forward from now, all new devices will be A7 64 bit as a base level. Start planning for that as being the lowest common denominator. I never said to stop supporting the previous models, just add high level options for the new gen, which will be the lowest gen in the not too distant future.

thats fine as long as its backwards compatible .

 

[mmmagnetic]

On a sidenote, some games sound really tinny, like coming from a cheap bathroom radio, Whirlwind in particular. I suppose this has something to do with the way they recorded it?

It makes the music sound a bit... well, cheap.

 

[jaredmorgs]

On a sidenote, some games sound really tinny, like coming from a cheap bathroom radio, Whirlwind in particular. I suppose this has something to do with the way they recorded it?

It makes the music sound a bit... well, cheap.

Yep, it does.

It's worth pointing out that I'm not advocating for the type of quality heard on the pinball soundtracks in the original link. They have had some heavy post-processing applied.

I just want a pure mono 22.1k stream encoded with a more generous ADPCM (at least, I think that's what I want...)

 

[MonkeyGrass]

As a professional audio engineer, and studio owner, it irks me to no end how horribly lossy and compressed the audio on TPA is. It sounds like a 96k mono MP3, which is almost understandable on a low-end mobile devices with limited resources. Not so much on PS3 or Xbox, which can easily handle 24bit bitstream audio in 7.1. It's pretty sad that all the versions of TPA are watered down to match the lowest common hardware, instead of maxing out the capabilities of the consoles and PC, and then dumbing certain versions down for mobile.

There are much better ways to crack this nut, but FS doesn't have the in-house resources or desire to up the ante and really get the sound poppin'. If I still lived in CA, I would offer to come to Big Bear myself and help them dial some of this stuff in. For free, because that is how much it bothers me. Rich, full, hi-quality audio is an essential ingredient to the Pinball Experience. It's completely missed in the digital recreations, and there is honestly, no need for it to be weak on console or PC. Those machines are more than capable of storing and handling 44.1 uncompressed WAV.

It's a damn shame. That's all I can say.

 

[francis247uk]

MonkeyGrass, have you tried the PC version? Pretty sure sound is improved, not sure how much by, sounds miles better to my ears.

Would definitely prefer better sound, pretty sure all users wouldn't mind bigger file sizes. Poll anyone?

 

[MonkeyGrass]

Francis,

No, I will be skipping the PC version for the foreseeable future, as well as the PS4. Until portrait mode is fully supported, why would I want to pay (again) to play TPA on a small landscape monitor, when I have it on my 52" HDTV with wireless controllers? I sorta feel like FS is missing the boat here, and spreading resources way too thin across too many platforms right now. I don't need 5 different machines to play TPA. What I *would* like, is ONE high-quality version that has accurate sound, and modern UI and controller improvements. You know, all the stuff we've been asking FS about for the last... oh... two years or so?

 

[djrobx]

To me, Whirlwind sounds like it has bad samples. As if its samples were captured with a microphone up to speakers. I've even compared them to PinMame with the same set of headphones and it's not as bad.

None of the other tables in PA are great but nothing as horrendous as Whirlwind.

 

[francis247uk]

Monkeygrass,

The PC version is free on steam, granted you only get TOTAN as a free table but I would suggest downloading it and having a listen to the sound, it's definitely improved, and someone such as yourself with professional sound experience would be able to tell what the difference was. Got nothing to loose?

 

[Indy99]

I would love to see audio improvemnts come to mobile. After upgrading my phone and tablet this year (to HTC One and Nexus 7 2013), you can really hear how bad the audio is in TPA. Any improvements in this area would be most welcome!

 

[MonkeyGrass]

Monkeygrass,

The PC version is free on steam, granted you only get TOTAN as a free table but I would suggest downloading it and having a listen to the sound, it's definitely improved, and someone such as yourself with professional sound experience would be able to tell what the difference was. Got nothing to loose?

I did. And downloaded ToTAN as well. On my laptop, whether or not there are major sound improvements is hard to tell - based off of 1/2" laptop speakers. I may put on my Senny headphones later and check it out more in detail. Sadly, with a quad-core intel chip and 8 gb of high-speed RAM, I have to disable nearly everything in order to get the framerate above 30 fps. Once I do that, it plays... OK... but still tends to slow down with multiball and the event camera stuff.

What will really tell the tale is if the super-mega-awesome-epic-PS3 Uber Patch incorporates any upgraded sounds and FX, along with graphical and physics fixes.

 

[superballs]

I did. And downloaded ToTAN as well. On my laptop, whether or not there are major sound improvements is hard to tell - based off of 1/2" laptop speakers. I may put on my Senny headphones later and check it out more in detail. Sadly, with a quad-core intel chip and 8 gb of high-speed RAM, I have to disable nearly everything in order to get the framerate above 30 fps. Once I do that, it plays... OK... but still tends to slow down with multiball and the event camera stuff.

What will really tell the tale is if the super-mega-awesome-epic-PS3 Uber Patch incorporates any upgraded sounds and FX, along with graphical and physics fixes.

Sounds like a ****e graphics card since I get good game play at moderate settings on a core 2 duo laptop with only 4gb.

Does it not have vga out? You could play the pc version on your 52 inch