[Kickstarter] What's a fair price to ask non-kickstarter punters for ST:TNG and TZ?

[jaredmorgs]

The ST:TNG and TZ tables surely won't be limited to the people who contributed to the Kickstarter only. Farsight will offer these tables to punters who couldn't (or simply didn't want to) pony up any cash in the kickstarter pledge initially.

While pricing tables is an internal concern/at the sole discretion of Farsight management, I'm going to play "Devil's Advocate". These are questions I've asked myself, and I'd be interested to gauge the feeling of others.

1. Do you feel that you would be less inclined to contribute to other Kickstarters if the table was offered at regular prices for non-backers?
2. OK, so what's a Fair Price to ask non-backers to pay?
   • 2.50, as part of a pack?
   • 2.50, stand alone?
   • $5.00, stand alone?
   • More than $5.00?
3. Would you be OK with the table being included in a monthly pack, or does that "cheapen" the backer's investment?
4. Would you feel better about any of the above if the Kickstarter tables were offered a few months in advance to backers, before they were made available to the general public?

If Farsight would care to respond, then please do let us know about roll-out plans for backers.

It could be that I'm not thinking the way a Kickstarter backer should be thinking. These questions may not be in the spirit of how Kickstarter works. It hasn't stopped me thinking these thoughts though...

And for the record, I've pledged $10 each for both TZ and ST:TNG. And I *can't wait* for these tables to be released, however Farsight decides to manage it.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

Jared, are you trying to start World War III?

Without getting into the greater questions, offering the table as part of a pack would be problematic on the consoles, as players who wanted the other table in the pack would be forced into purchasing TZ or ST:TNG, which backers are supposed to receive as their reward. Also, the backers who get the Pro versions of the tables (the ones with operator menu access) would be especially uninterested in buying the standard table. These premium tables are almost certainly going to have to be offered standalone.

 

[Supermans]

I have excellent advice for Farsight in regards to the Pro/premium table offered to those who paid $50 or more. The premium table called the Pro version should never be available to non kickstarter users period. The pro version should be unique enough that it makes others who didn't contribute to the kickstarter wish they had. That way, they might be more inclined to pay up next time not to miss out. Now my advice in making this Star Trek pro version unique would be to include the hallmark ornament upgrades to the ships and add that extea enterprise in there seen on many custom STTNG tables. Also, include a night time version of the table exclusive to kickstarter contributors spending $50 or more. That would be my advice.

 

[Bride of Trolls]

OK, so what's a Fair Price to ask non-backers to pay?

• 2.50, as part of a pack?
• 2.50, stand alone?
• $5.00, stand alone?
• More than $5.00?

Would you feel better about any of the above if the Kickstarter tables were offered a few months in advance to backers, before they were made available to the general public?

I think the TPA pinballs are well priced and i will buy every new table,
even those ones i don't like ( i hate Cirqus Voltaire).

My personal max. price for a table is €5.00, not more, even not
for so called premium tables.

If the kickstarter tables are only available for for kickstarter backer
i will by no tables during this period, so if farsight want some months
without money, go on and try it. And i think i am not alone with
that opinion.

... should never be available to non kickstarter users ...include a night time version of the table exclusive to kickstarter contributors spending $50 or more.

Stupid idea !!! Nice pinball only for people with a big credit card?
For many people 50$ / 40€ is a lot of money, they have to pay
the normal life, like their houses, their children etc,etc.

If this happens i will never by any more pinballs of the TPA !!

It's a long time ago since i read superman comics, but i can't remember
that superman helped only the rich people, correct me if i am wrong.

 

[jaredmorgs]

I have excellent advice for Farsight in regards to the Pro/premium table offered to those who paid $50 or more. The premium table called the Pro version should never be available to non kickstarter users period. The pro version should be unique enough that it makes others who didn't contribute to the kickstarter wish they had. That way, they might be more inclined to pay up next time not to miss out. Now my advice in making this Star Trek pro version unique would be to include the hallmark ornament upgrades to the ships and add that extea enterprise in there seen on many custom STTNG tables. Also, include a night time version of the table exclusive to kickstarter contributors spending $50 or more. That would be my advice.

These are great ideas.

 

[jaredmorgs]

Jared, are you trying to start World War III?

Without getting into the greater questions, offering the table as part of a pack would be problematic on the consoles, as players who wanted the other table in the pack would be forced into purchasing TZ or ST:TNG, which backers are supposed to receive as their reward. Also, the backers who get the Pro versions of the tables (the ones with operator menu access) would be especially uninterested in buying the standard table. These premium tables are almost certainly going to have to be offered standalone.

I know. This is a contentious issue. But it needs to be asked.

I tend to agree that offering the table in a pack just would not work.

I think waiting to release the table for 1 month could be a good compromise for 'backer value'.

I've got the fire-retardant suit on as I write this post

 

[PiN WiZ]

I guess I'll go ahead and chime in on this one since I already had a conversation about this very subject with a few people on FarSight's TPA Facebook Page.

The Twilight Zone and Star Trek : The Next Generation will more than likely be sold individually as premium tables for 400 msp on Xbox 360 and $4.99 USD on all other platforms. Paying royalties for multi-licensed pinball tables such as The Twilight Zone and Star Trek : The Next Generation is significantly more that paying royalties for tables such as Monster Bash and Ripley's Believe It or Not! (and those tables are priced at $3.99 USD individually on iOS, Android and Kindle Fire). If FarSight only charges $1.00 USD more for The Twilight Zone and Star Trek : The Next Generation than tables like Monster Bash and Ripley's, then that is a steal in my opinion, especially since all those who are making The Twilight Zone and Star Trek : The Next Generation a reality on The Pinball Arcade had to do so by pledging a minimum of $10 USD for each table just to get one copy of each.

 

[BlindSpider11]

I'm just hoping there stand alones, and not in a pack.

 

[jaredmorgs]

I guess I'll go ahead and chime in on this one since I already had a conversation about this very subject with a few people on FarSight's TPA Facebook Page.

The Twilight Zone and Star Trek : The Next Generation will more than likely be sold individually as premium tables for 400 msp on Xbox 360 and $4.99 USD on all other platforms. Paying royalties for multi-licensed pinball tables such as The Twilight Zone and Star Trek : The Next Generation is significantly more that paying royalties for tables such as Monster Bash and Ripley's Believe It or Not! (and those tables are priced at $3.99 USD individually on iOS, Android and Kindle Fire). If FarSight only charges $1.00 USD more for The Twilight Zone and Star Trek : The Next Generation than tables like Monster Bash and Ripley's, then that is a steal in my opinion, especially since all those who are making The Twilight Zone and Star Trek : The Next Generation a reality on The Pinball Arcade had to do so by pledging a minimum of $10 USD for each table just to get one copy of each.

I think $5 is a fair price for non-backers to pay. I'd be stoked to pay that if I wasn't able to back the kick starter.

What are your thoughts on holding the release for a few months to give backers a bit of exclusivity? After all without backers there would not be any premium tables.

Might also make tournament management easier to coordinate?

 

[PiN WiZ]

I think $5 is a fair price for non-backers to pay. I'd be stoked to pay that if I wasn't able to back the kick starter.

What are your thoughts on holding the release for a few months to give backers a bit of exclusivity? After all without backers there would not be any premium tables.

Might also make tournament management easier to coordinate?

As a backer myself, I would be happy with FarSight just charging the 400 msp and $4.99 USD for each table individually. After all, I (as well as every other backer) pledged to make sure these tables see the light of day and that they're made available for ALL to enjoy, while at the same time, help to strengthen The Pinball Arcade's table lineup and hopefully drive future sales of the core game.

As for holding back finished tables, I've never been a fan of this sort of business practice and believe that once tables are finished and ready to go, they need to be rolled out as soon as possible to get the revenue flowing in.

 

[BeO]

1. Do you feel that you would be less inclined to contribute to other Kickstarters if the table was offered at regular prices for non-backers?
2. OK, so what's a Fair Price to ask non-backers to pay?
   • 2.50, as part of a pack?
   • 2.50, stand alone?
   • $5.00, stand alone?
   • More than $5.00?
3. Would you be OK with the table being included in a monthly pack, or does that "cheapen" the backer's investment?
4. Would you feel better about any of the above if the Kickstarter tables were offered a few months in advance to backers, before they were made available to the general public?

1. Nope

2. $5.00. Most casual gamers won't understand why this table costs more, so charging the same price for this single table that you'd normally get two tables for is probably in itself something that will prevent many customers from buying it. It can't for many reasons already mentioned be included in a pack. But it should have some kind of premium price, so $5 instead of $3(?) that a regular single table costs seems fine to me. That should not scare too many customers away I think.

3. Nope, but not because it cheapens the backers investment. See previous mentioned reasons (different versions of the table, redundant pack if you already got the table through backing the project and so on).

4. Why would it matter if we get to play it a month or so before the general customer? If I get some extras, like the wallpapers they promise and so on, that's a nice bonus to me. Making the non backers wait just so we can feel special is, to me, pretty stupid and an elitistisc way of thinking that I don't support at all.

The way I see it is that as a Kickstart backer I show my extended support to the company. I want to help out, not to get any special benefits (except what's included in the different funding levels) but to make sure they can deliver the table to us, the customers. The average customer won't care much about specific tables. If a table can't be done because of licensing fees, they shrug their shoulders and say "make some other table then". But we, the pinball fans, have our opportunity here to show our support, show that we want this or that table.

I've pledged $30 simply because I'm ready to pay twice the assumed price ($5 for the table, but we're still guessing) for each platform I'm gonna play it on (Android, 360, PC hopefully ). And I'm actually considering changing it to $40 because my job might force me to use one of those fruit vendor pads soon and I'll have a fourth platform ready for some pinball action. But I don't expect the average customer to be willing to pay this price, and I expect the sales figures would suffer if the table went high premium price ($10 or more).

No offence to anyone, I hope I don't sound too harsh

 

[bavelb]

I think $5 is a fair price for non-backers to pay. I'd be stoked to pay that if I wasn't able to back the kick starter.

What are your thoughts on holding the release for a few months to give backers a bit of exclusivity? After all without backers there would not be any premium tables.

5 bucks is fine for non-backers. Any higher and they contradict their own statement of their current kickstarter "We need to kickstart this so its viable for everyone to buy this, it needs to be available to everyone and therefor we need kickstarter".

I'd be strongly against a "few months of exclusivity" for backers, I find that approach elitist and against what TPA stands for: Pinball is for everyone, not just those being able to afford the premium prices you need to pay to own a table. You'd also break up the communitybuilding that has been going on since it's inception: what about those who came later to the table, or didnt have the funds at the time to back?

If you wanted to get exlusivity you shouldve pledged for the betaprogram. Every month they are exclusive with the table with be another month with no (0) income on the table as the backers get the table for "free". I also only pledged enough for 1 copy, and I'd be pissed if I couldnt buy it on my other platforms even though I helped fund this table.

 

[jaredmorgs]

BeO and bavelb, both stances are well thought-out responses. Thanks for speaking your minds.

 

[mmmagnetic]

I have excellent advice for Farsight in regards to the Pro/premium table offered to those who paid $50 or more. The premium table called the Pro version should never be available to non kickstarter users period. The pro version should be unique enough that it makes others who didn't contribute to the kickstarter wish they had. That way, they might be more inclined to pay up next time not to miss out. Now my advice in making this Star Trek pro version unique would be to include the hallmark ornament upgrades to the ships and add that extea enterprise in there seen on many custom STTNG tables. Also, include a night time version of the table exclusive to kickstarter contributors spending $50 or more. That would be my advice.

There is a line between interesting little rewards for backing a Kickstarter and turning the whole thing into a bragging rights affair. I´m all for little incentives for backing, but linking major features like a night time version or a "pro table" to a certain pledge level, and, in turn, leave it unavailable for the general consumer sounds too much like turning the TPA hardcore fanbase into a little elite club.

Cute gimmicks like a shirt or your name in the credits are good incentives, because they don´t really affect the software for people who can´t or don´t want to pay for a Kickstarter project (or simply completely missed it!), but still enjoy playing TPA.

A Kickstarter should be about people wanting to give a developer some money because they love to see whatever they´re doing coming to fruition. To make a feature never available to you ever unless you happened to be aware of the Kickstarter as it happens and have enough cash on hand at that time for a product that doesn´t exist yet sounds overly harsh to me. We here pledge these Kickstarters because we trust Farsight, but a lot of people don´t like spending money and not immediately get something back in return - that´s just how many consumers think, and that´s fine.

Maybe others might disagree, I think that Farsight not only needs the money from hardcore fans, but also from the casual players. Would I personally pay up to, say, 30, 40€ for a well done version of, say, Addams Family? Sure! But many other players wouldn´t, and I´m sure Farsight is well aware of the fact that they need to sell their DLC in a certain volume. If you cross a certain price barrier you suddenly lose a LOT of potential customers.

 

[Volitar Prime]

Why should these tables cost more than other tables just because they are “premium”? Sure there are high licensing costs, but these are being handled by Kickstarter. The other tables have licensing costs too. True they are much lower, but they are included in the price of the table. If anything, these could actually be cheaper since they don’t have to account for licensing in the price unless someone can convince us that it will cost much more to develop these tables compared to other new ones once the licensing is out of the way.

 

[PiN WiZ]

Why should these tables cost more than other tables just because they are “premium”? Sure there are high licensing costs, but these are being handled by Kickstarter. The other tables have licensing costs too. True they are much lower, but they are included in the price of the table. If anything, these could actually be cheaper since they don’t have to account for licensing in the price unless someone can convince us that it will cost much more to develop these tables compared to other new ones once the licensing is out of the way.

The royalties (not covered by kickstarter funds) that need to be paid per unit sold for multi-licensed tables are considerably higher than tables that have only one or two licenses attached to them. That is the difference.

 

[bavelb]

The royalties (not covered by kickstarter funds) that need to be paid per unit sold for multi-licensed tables are considerably higher than tables that have only one or two licenses attached to them. That is the difference.

Plus those backers that covered the licensing costs don't bring in any income from buyingt he tables as they get them as reward.

 

[gjarnling]

I agree with FS on the importance of preserving them and making them available for as many people as possible, in comparison to physical tables. I don't think there should be no benefits what so ever for someone (like me) who has helped financially through Kickstarter and other customers except what's actually promised in the Kickstarter itself. and I think the price of tables they are selling now are just right, and hope they can keep it at that level even for "premium" tables. lets not forget that they sadly enough they won't get the money for selling the tables to ca 2000 loyal customers who already bought it through the Kickatarter and higher prices doesn't always mean more sells; might just as well mean less paying customers...

whatever happens I'm thankful to everone who helped realise these tables in one way or the other!

 

[countcb]

I'm backing because I want FarSight to be sucessful with this table not because I want to own that table.
If I would be interested in the latter I would wait and buy the table when it comes out.

Me backing taht table should have no impact on what others pay to get the table. For me it's worth the money so I can help out. No reason others have to suffer so that is's fair for ME.
Everyone who backs KNOWS that all other people will get the table for LESS money. Accept that and back or don't and buy the table the normal way.

No need to argue about what price would be "fair" for backers.
I helped that table come to live. That's worth the money. Even if the table is FREE afterwards I would back.

 

[laughing_lunatic]

I think $5 for the table is perfectly fair. As for wallpapers, operator menu's etc, I couldn't give a rats that's not going to tempt me, neither wil I feel that I missed out when people talk about how amazing their operators menu is and what they can do with it ... you want me to double my donation ? An "I "heart" Pinball" FarSight Studios tee-shirt and mug !!! Make it so.