New XBOX (XBox One)

[karl]

I am sorry to say this but I think we will all be a bit underwhelmed when we see the new xbox. It will be more than 8 years since the last xbox when it arrives and I feel the improvements in tech has been real slow the last eight years. Yes it will probably have native 1080p, a larger hard drive and a small improvement in the graphic chip and cpu (the last 2 is where we will be most underwhelmed I fear). My guess is that the main focus on the new xbox will be the win 8 and win phone 8 compatibility and that is the thing I care the least for. I have no clue what's in store so this is just a educated guess and I hope I am terribly wrong of course and if the price is right I will probably get it anyway but I am keeping my expectations low on this. I agree that the 360 has aged pretty well. I am wondering in the case of TPA, what the benefits of a new xbox will bring? If it gets vastly improved lightning and a much higher resolution on the play field image and objects I will buy it on day 1 ;-)

 

[Mark W**a]

In no rush to replace the XBOX. It's impressive what they have squeezed out of it, you only have to look at Halo 3 vs Halo 4. I don't see anything wrong with the current setup. If I look at current generation PC hardware, then sure the graphics are better, but it's still the same old games and tired formats. People get obsessed about the graphics, but it's playability that matters. We need something revolutionary to happen hardware wise, not just better graphics.

Based on the lack of support for media center now, I think the next Xbox will be geared more as a home entertainment hub, catering for TV, movies.....etc

Only thing I want a new Xbox for is to play Half Life 4 Valve have always said they were waiting for new hardware.

I feel you, and it is indeed impressive what Microsoft has squeezed out of this console, which is now over 7 years old. It will be turning 8 by the time the new machine launches.

I don't think any console has evolved and remained fresh the way 360 has. Turning on the interface today and comparing that to the original blades theme, or the later NXE updates, it's like a totally new console. Even the graphics, like you said, it's amazing what they have done. Forza 4 compared to Forza 2 or Halo 4 compared to 3, is almost like a generational jump in fidelity. It's incredible, really.

Lots of people feel exactly as you do. But for me, this thing launched when I was 21 years old. Going to my first bar, graduating college, 3 serious girlfriends, my first trip to Vegas... Alot has happened, to say the least... I'll be 29 by Q4, 2013. That is a LONG, LONG, LONG ass time.

A full 8 years between console generations is unprecedented. For me, this is long overdue.

I am sorry to say this but I think we will all be a bit underwhelmed when we see the new xbox. It will be more than 8 years since the last xbox when it arrives and I feel the improvements in tech has been real slow the last eight years. Yes it will probably have native 1080p, a larger hard drive and a small improvement in the graphic chip and cpu (the last 2 is where we will be most underwhelmed I fear). My guess is that the main focus on the new xbox will be the win 8 and win phone 8 compatibility and that is the thing I care the least for. I have no clue what's in store so this is just a educated guess and I hope I am terribly wrong of course and if the price is right I will probably get it anyway but I am keeping my expectations low on this. I agree that the 360 has aged pretty well. I am wondering in the case of TPA, what the benefits of a new xbox will bring? If it gets vastly improved lightning and a much higher resolution on the play field image and objects I will buy it on day 1 ;-)

I agree with this, tech doesn't seem like it has made as serious advancements as it used to. 8 years we went from Super NES launching to Dreamcast launching. Compare that to, say, Xbox 360 versus a top end PC game today. The jump is nowhere near as dramatic IMO.

Keep in mind though, PC's today aren't closed boxes, and aren't being pushed to their max. Development is still centered around consoles so what you have is, a game designed to work on the Xbox 360 and then it's ported to PC, all that changes really is the resolution is enhanced, the framerate is doubled, and some extra bells and whistles here and there. That's nothing compared to what we could be seeing on one of these high end rigs, what they are truly capable of when coded to the metal. That all changes when new consoles show up. That's why PC players need to understand the console market is important for them as well. It's ultimately what pushes everything forward.

 

[shutyertrap]

The problem I have with jumping to the next generation is I feel companies are only just now finding out how to squeeze more out of them. Like you said, Forza and Halo look way different. The problem is, 3rd party studios don't want to put in the effort to figure optimization out. I get that Sony and Xbox need new to generate more sales. I just don't like where they wanna go. Pushing digital download, no backwards compatible, no buying used discs, seems the next gen is all about putting restrictions on the user.

Truth be told, I also don't want next gen cause I won't be able to afford it till 2 years after release! Yeah, I'm being selfish.

 

[monty22001]

Mark is right. I feel 2013/2014 is a fairly good time to jump forward. PC games are very much held back by console releases these days and have been since the PS2. It's even moreso with this generation. I'm looking forward to Xbox/PS4.. That's what I've had for awhile now. Haven't had a Nintendo system since the Gamecube. Sadly, before that, I had everything of theirs since the NES. MS/Sony do a good job for the adult market though and both put out great systems. I'm glad they didn't jump too fast into the next gen, but the time is getting close to being right.

 

[Mark W**a]

The problem I have with jumping to the next generation is I feel companies are only just now finding out how to squeeze more out of them. Like you said, Forza and Halo look way different. The problem is, 3rd party studios don't want to put in the effort to figure optimization out. I get that Sony and Xbox need new to generate more sales. I just don't like where they wanna go. Pushing digital download, no backwards compatible, no buying used discs, seems the next gen is all about putting restrictions on the user.

Truth be told, I also don't want next gen cause I won't be able to afford it till 2 years after release! Yeah, I'm being selfish.

8 years. Trust me, these consoles are taped out. They've been taped out. Halo 4 and Forza Horizon are small miracles. That's about as good as you can possibly expect out of 360. Ps3 is also on its last legs, last of us and God of War ascension will be the last big games. I guess 360 still has gears judgement too. But that's it.

Keep in mind you don't have to be an early adopter and 360 and ps3 will still be supported for years to come. The SNES was still getting games in 1998 two years after n64 was out. Hell they still make games for PS2!

Some consoles I feel we never got to see maxed out. Dream cast, which only lived for 3 years, Xbox 1 which only got 4. But keep in mind, the high water mark on systems is usually year 5 or 6. Like ps2 for instance, god of war 2 was what an 05 or 06 release?

Also ps4 is not going to be released in 2013.

 

[Kevlar]

I've been ready for about 2 years!. Saying that since discovering pinball last year my interest in gaming has gone off a cliff. I have the last NFS, Cod blops 2 and farcry 3 all barely played.

 

[Worf]

The thing is, the PS3 has yet to be tapped out - because few know how to program the )(*@#)(%*& SPUs and even worse, even fewer know how to @(#*%&() manage them proper (because one PPU needs to be feeding the 6 SPUs (7th reserved for OS) with data and collecting the results and all that). So PS3 games often just treat it as a 2-core, 4 thread machine with a GPU and dedicated memory, leaving the 6 SPUs to rot. This puts the PS3 in a bad spot computationally if you don't use the SPUs.

The Xbox IS tapped out because it's a more generic architecture of 3 cores, 6 threads, shared memory, standard GPU that's akin to a standard PC.

Ps2 took a little while because managing the EE and GS was quite tricky, and one needed to be able to master both to properly do it. Many did in the end because the Xbox and Gamecube were hardly competitors.

PS4 is likely to be "Xbox 2" - PC architecture if rumors are correct (just like the original Xbox). Don't know about the Xbox Next, but I can bet it too will take after the PC-like architecture because it's a lot simpler to get games going off of without having to turn your heads around into management of hardware. Fancy architectures like Cell and EE/GS have proven to be the bane of developers.

 

[shutyertrap]

My buddy keeps saying he needs to get me off of consoles for playing games and onto a proper PC, as opposed to my 6 year old video running off the motherboard pile of a pc. Problem is, majority of the games I really like, PS3 exclusives! God of War and Uncharted series are my fave games, period. Last of Us looks incredible. Before TPA, my go to game was Rock Band/Guitar Hero which while not console exclusive, needed the space of my living room to accommodate. I personally like playing on consoles. I hate the cost of the games, but then I don't buy a lot, maybe 3 or 4 titles a year, per console. I have PS3 and said buddy's Wii that is on permanent loan. He just dropped off his Xbox 360 but it's gotten no love from me.

Boy did that paragraph start to ramble!

It just seems to me, that with the PS2, games like Shadow of the Colossus showed why we needed a PS3, cause it took it to the breaking point and then some. As Worf pointed out, few are maxing out the PS3. I'll believe you guys about the Xbox being tapped, as I have little experience with it. Shoot, Mark was saying how different the dashboard even is from when it started out...well that's the dash I'm looking at as my buddy hadn't updated his Xbox in an eternity and I don't have it hooked up to the internet!

I do think the 3rd party developers are gonna play an interesting role this go around. They've all but stated, for games like Madden that are spread across everything, they're playing to lowest common denominator. So if Xbox comes out new in 2013, but PS4 isn't coming out till 2014, they're not gonna do an all out version JUST for Xbox. No money in it considering the costs to develop. Wii U is essentially only on par with current, but their architecture is not easily ported to like can be done between Xbox and Sony. So it's whoever is last out the gate that determines what the commonalities are, and those will be the benchmarks. Which means it will only be the 1st party games that will be pushing the limits of the platforms. Which is why again, I'm not in a rush for new PS4 as 1st parties are still scratching away at the limits of the PS3.

I'll put this out there too. 4K tv's, while insanely expensive, are just around the corner, as in this year. There is no content for them though, as most broadcasters only output 720p max, and there is no disc based movies or player yet for it. I know MS doesn't have a care about the tv market, but Sony sure does. If they just wait 2 years, they could put out a...wait for it...PS4k! Now your resolution is better than retina, equal and better than PC, and capable of insane fps. Sony always says how the lifecycle of their platforms is 10 years, well that would come out then at year what, 8 or 9 of the PS3? And it would be a major step up that people are looking to see. They'd attract the early adopters of both the tv and console market, and 2 years after that the cost of a 4k set will be down to somewhat affordable. The majority of households that got HDTV did so about 4 years ago? So that would put their tv at 6 years old 2 years from now, meaning a new tv is within the realm of possibility especially if there is new amazing looking content.

Well, nobody ever said I had to be realistic! I can spin a whopper of a tale if the mood strikes me! Not to mention this being an Xbox thread, I just went off on a completely Sony tangent. So lemme bring it back around by asking this...

Do you guys think MS is more interested in fighting a future Google or Apple console then they are fighting Sony and Nintendo with video games? Everything I hear about the new Xbox has to do with media content and integration, not games so much. Do you not think that's really why the push for new?

 

[Carl Spiby]

I've been ready for about 2 years!. Saying that since discovering pinball last year my interest in gaming has gone off a cliff. I have the last NFS, Cod blops 2 and farcry 3 all barely played.

This has happened to me too.

 

[lettuce]

I dont see MS ditching xbla when the new console hit, MS will probably still carry over all the content/games that are are currently on xbla...so TPA will be safe

 

[Kevlar]

I dont see MS ditching xbla when the new console hit, MS will probably still carry over all the content/games that are are currently on xbla...so TPA will be safe

I agree, otherwise once the console in announced no one would buy any xbla games.

 

[Nik Barbour]

Re: New XBOX (720)

I dont see MS ditching xbla when the new console hit, MS will probably still carry over all the content/games that are are currently on xbla...so TPA will be safe

How would that work?
Would xbla be continued on 360 only, with a new system available on the new console.
Or is backwards compatibility likely to be a feature? (I was guessing not).

 

[Worf]

Well, that's all speculation at the moment. However, MS does know how much people have spent on XBLA stuff, and they know it's a significant amount. So they're probably going to do something. After all, the Xbox360 is a single chip now - they could do a PS3 and stick it in the next Xbox to run side by side.

Another thing perhaps is because it's all APIs these days (DirectX - trivia: the name "Xbox" comes from the fact it has DirectX, as in DirectXBox), MS could just emulate the Xbox processor and reroute API calls to native hardware, basically using API compatibility.

I wouldn't worry too much about 4K - nothing's there yet. HDMI has a 4K spec, but there are few 4K sources and sinks. I believe RED (of cinema camera) has a special 4K compatible player for RED formatted video, and a 4K projector. But you're looking at a good 5 digits. 6 if you want to include the camera (and RED's popular because they're cheap).

All the announced 4K TVs are still in the 5 digit range, and no one's really announced anything consumer-y for 4K sources, nevermind 4K content. The only consumer 4K is a GoPro Hero 3 Black camera, but it only does 15fps and apparently, is awful because the low framerate makes it herky-jerky. By the time it's mainstream, we'll have discussions about the PS5 and Xbox Next After Next (1080?). There are fundamental issues with 4K broadcasts (as in too much bandwidth - broadcast TV is 720p/1080i (same bandwidth), 1080p requires double that. And 4K requires quadruple that. So 8 times more bandwidth is required to send a 4K broadcast than a 720p/1080i one), and likewise, Blu-Ray won't have enough space - the experimental 4 layer ones only do 100GB, which is half of what 4K needs. Plus, internet speeds just aren't there yet.

And to enjoy 4K requires a really, really, really large screen. And being uncomfortably close to it in order for the eye to make use of all the details (and really, most people sit too far away from their TVs to enjoy 1080p).

Lots of 4K content though - every contemporary movie is done in at least 4K. Just too many hurdles to overcome at the moment (they're streamed to theatres via satellite encrypted).

4K TVs might be coming out this year, but the public won't generally endorse them for a few years yet - you could buy HDTVs in 2000, but they were so expensive that few did buy them. It was only around 2006 or so that their price started tumbling. Even accelerated, that pushes 4K consumer adoption for at least 5 years - enough time for the next-gen console.

 

[Mark W**a]

My buddy keeps saying he needs to get me off of consoles for playing games and onto a proper PC, as opposed to my 6 year old video running off the motherboard pile of a pc. Problem is, majority of the games I really like, PS3 exclusives! God of War and Uncharted series are my fave games, period. Last of Us looks incredible. Before TPA, my go to game was Rock Band/Guitar Hero which while not console exclusive, needed the space of my living room to accommodate. I personally like playing on consoles. I hate the cost of the games, but then I don't buy a lot, maybe 3 or 4 titles a year, per console. I have PS3 and said buddy's Wii that is on permanent loan. He just dropped off his Xbox 360 but it's gotten no love from me.

Boy did that paragraph start to ramble!

It just seems to me, that with the PS2, games like Shadow of the Colossus showed why we needed a PS3, cause it took it to the breaking point and then some. As Worf pointed out, few are maxing out the PS3. I'll believe you guys about the Xbox being tapped, as I have little experience with it. Shoot, Mark was saying how different the dashboard even is from when it started out...well that's the dash I'm looking at as my buddy hadn't updated his Xbox in an eternity and I don't have it hooked up to the internet!

I do think the 3rd party developers are gonna play an interesting role this go around. They've all but stated, for games like Madden that are spread across everything, they're playing to lowest common denominator. So if Xbox comes out new in 2013, but PS4 isn't coming out till 2014, they're not gonna do an all out version JUST for Xbox. No money in it considering the costs to develop. Wii U is essentially only on par with current, but their architecture is not easily ported to like can be done between Xbox and Sony. So it's whoever is last out the gate that determines what the commonalities are, and those will be the benchmarks. Which means it will only be the 1st party games that will be pushing the limits of the platforms. Which is why again, I'm not in a rush for new PS4 as 1st parties are still scratching away at the limits of the PS3.

I'll put this out there too. 4K tv's, while insanely expensive, are just around the corner, as in this year. There is no content for them though, as most broadcasters only output 720p max, and there is no disc based movies or player yet for it. I know MS doesn't have a care about the tv market, but Sony sure does. If they just wait 2 years, they could put out a...wait for it...PS4k! Now your resolution is better than retina, equal and better than PC, and capable of insane fps. Sony always says how the lifecycle of their platforms is 10 years, well that would come out then at year what, 8 or 9 of the PS3? And it would be a major step up that people are looking to see. They'd attract the early adopters of both the tv and console market, and 2 years after that the cost of a 4k set will be down to somewhat affordable. The majority of households that got HDTV did so about 4 years ago? So that would put their tv at 6 years old 2 years from now, meaning a new tv is within the realm of possibility especially if there is new amazing looking content.

Well, nobody ever said I had to be realistic! I can spin a whopper of a tale if the mood strikes me! Not to mention this being an Xbox thread, I just went off on a completely Sony tangent. So lemme bring it back around by asking this...

Do you guys think MS is more interested in fighting a future Google or Apple console then they are fighting Sony and Nintendo with video games? Everything I hear about the new Xbox has to do with media content and integration, not games so much. Do you not think that's really why the push for new?

First bold: Dude, I hear you. I'm so sick of that crap.

All the best games, excuse me, all the games that I enjoy, are either PS3 exclusive, Xbox exclusive, or Console exclusive (means no PC version). I won't get into a list as it's too long, but let me just put it this way. There's 4 games I'm interested in this year before the next gen starts. Metal Gear Rising, Anarchy Reigns, DoDonPachi Sai Ou Jou, and Gears of War Judgement. None of these are on PC.

Second bold: That's not true. 360 came out in 2005, a full year before PS3, and had tons of support. Many of the 360 launch games and 2006 games got eventual PS3 ports (Fight Night Rnd 2, Ridge Racer 6, Full Auto etc.) while the system had plenty of 1st and 3rd party exclusives that first year (Chromehounds, Dead or Alive 4, Dead Rising, Kameo, Call of Duty 2, Gears etc.).

And keep in mind that was a completely different playing field. Microsoft was a distant 2nd coming into this current gen, with nowhere near the momentum they have now. They are now in a first place position (Wii is irrelevant now). If Sony gives up another year head start this time, they are in big trouble. That's why they won't (expect a Q2 2014 PS4 release).

Third bold: If Sony waited till 2015... actually, that might not be a bad idea. While I just said giving up a year headstart is death for them, waiting 2 years and launching much better hardware could be a game changer, or it could mean death. That's a gamble, but I like how you're thinking.

Fourth Bold: without question, MS is looking towards the future. They recognize that they have the iPhone of the television screen. That's what Xbox has become, for better or worse. Tons of apps, games, messaging, hell with a Kinect it's even a touch-like interface.

 

[Mark W**a]

I agree, otherwise once the console in announced no one would buy any xbla games.

I dont see MS ditching xbla when the new console hit, MS will probably still carry over all the content/games that are are currently on xbla...so TPA will be safe

How would that work?
Would xbla be continued on 360 only, with a new system available on the new console.
Or is backwards compatibility likely to be a feature? (I was guessing not).

There is no difference between an Xbox Arcade game and a full retail game, except for the distribution model. So if the Xbox 360 is backwards compatible with XBLA games it will be backwards compatible with ALL xbox games.

Here's the thing though, and this is just me but, I do not expect hardware backwards compatibility. It's just not going to happen for cost/power/heat issues, to include a 360 SOC into the new machine. Even if they shrunk it to 22nm, I still don't see it happening.

So unless they figure out some creative solution (I've heard rumors that some of the cores in the new CPU can emulate 360 cores), or perhaps software emulation, backwards compatibility might not happen at all.

Personally, I never understood what was so important about BC. I never cared that my SNES didn't play NES games. I never cared that my N64 didn't play SNES etc. etc. you get the idea. I maybe played PS1 games in my PS2 a couple times just to try it, but I never cared. Actually, Dreamcast, which featured only software emulation of PS1, was better as it actually improved the games (Metal Gear, Tekken 3 see Bleemcast). Now that was actually cool.

If I had to put money on it... I can't. I'm about 50/50 if there will be BC or not, based on what I know. Like I said, to me it doesn't matter to me, I'll just keep my 360 no big deal. But I can see why it matters to people, and you bet there would be an insane ****storm PR nightmare if they indeed skip BC.

I wouldn't worry too much about 4K - nothing's there yet. HDMI has a 4K spec, but there are few 4K sources and sinks. I believe RED (of cinema camera) has a special 4K compatible player for RED formatted video, and a 4K projector. But you're looking at a good 5 digits. 6 if you want to include the camera (and RED's popular because they're cheap).

All the announced 4K TVs are still in the 5 digit range, and no one's really announced anything consumer-y for 4K sources, nevermind 4K content. The only consumer 4K is a GoPro Hero 3 Black camera, but it only does 15fps and apparently, is awful because the low framerate makes it herky-jerky. By the time it's mainstream, we'll have discussions about the PS5 and Xbox Next After Next (1080?). There are fundamental issues with 4K broadcasts (as in too much bandwidth - broadcast TV is 720p/1080i (same bandwidth), 1080p requires double that. And 4K requires quadruple that. So 8 times more bandwidth is required to send a 4K broadcast than a 720p/1080i one), and likewise, Blu-Ray won't have enough space - the experimental 4 layer ones only do 100GB, which is half of what 4K needs. Plus, internet speeds just aren't there yet.

And to enjoy 4K requires a really, really, really large screen. And being uncomfortably close to it in order for the eye to make use of all the details (and really, most people sit too far away from their TVs to enjoy 1080p).

Lots of 4K content though - every contemporary movie is done in at least 4K. Just too many hurdles to overcome at the moment (they're streamed to theatres via satellite encrypted).

4K TVs might be coming out this year, but the public won't generally endorse them for a few years yet - you could buy HDTVs in 2000, but they were so expensive that few did buy them. It was only around 2006 or so that their price started tumbling. Even accelerated, that pushes 4K consumer adoption for at least 5 years - enough time for the next-gen console.

Worf, you took the words right out of my mouth. Shutyertrap, see this post. He's dead on here.

 

[Ark Malmeida]

I would be absolutely shocked if you couldn't use/play everything that was bought through XBLA (themes, games, movies, etc.) on the new XBox. They'd be totally shooting themselves in the foot if they did that as people that invested a lot of money in those games would be livid.

 

[shutyertrap]

Personally, I never understood what was so important about BC. I never cared that my SNES didn't play NES games. I never cared that my N64 didn't play SNES etc. etc. you get the idea. I maybe played PS1 games in my PS2 a couple times just to try it, but I never cared. Actually, Dreamcast, which featured only software emulation of PS1, was better as it actually improved the games (Metal Gear, Tekken 3 see Bleemcast). Now that was actually cool.


Worf, you took the words right out of my mouth. Shutyertrap, see this post. He's dead on here.

Yeah, I saw his post. I know all about the RED, as I work with it quite often. That's the thing, working in the film industry, I hear a lot of talk about 4K, so my perspective gets kinda warped.

As for backwards compatibility...no, for the most part I never through in a PS1 game into my PS2. A lot of that had to do with graphics being hideous to look at. Interestingly enough, playing them on a PSP has been great, cause that small, who cares! What PS3 has done with their HD upgrades to games like Shadow of the Colossus and Ico, well there I appreciated the graphics upgrade and repurchased, even though I owned on the PS2. Those are one time purchase games though. These heavy dlc games, like TPA and Rock Band, where a LOT of money can be dumped into, those are the things I'll for sure want BC on. Or at least offer a key to get them on the new system without having to buy all over again. Paying $30 for an upgrade to God of War, big whoop. Buying hundreds of dollars worth of dlc for a game so you can play it on the new system, no way. And yes, it's not like I can't just hook up the old console, but the inconvenience of that sucks. You wanna make me love your new machine? Ease the pain by making my old stuff not feel abandoned. First question my son asked when he got a 3DS this xmas was whether or not he could play his DS games on it. He's been playing the new, but it made him feel good knowing his library of games wasn't completely obsolete.

I think the goodwill spread with BC is vastly more important than people give it credit for. Whether people use it or not is irrelevant.

 

[lettuce]

Well the Wii-U can play all your content that was purchased on the old Wii shop, so fingers crossed

 

[Mark W**a]

I would be absolutely shocked if you couldn't use/play everything that was bought through XBLA (themes, games, movies, etc.) on the new XBox. They'd be totally shooting themselves in the foot if they did that as people that invested a lot of money in those games would be livid.

I have about 75 Xbox arcade games, 5 games on demand purchases, 1 Xbox original, countless DLC, a very good amount of gamerpics, themes going all the way back to the launch days, and 7+ years of game save files. Total is just under 200 gigs of content basically. No way am I transferring all that to the new box.

New machine is new machine if I wanna play 360 stuff ill bust out my 360. That's me though.

Look what happened with Wii U. They decided to go with a rediculous triple broadway core design just to keep BC with Wii. That CPU is such a bottleneck for the entire system. Had they chose something more modern the Wii U would be mopping the floor with ps360. Do you really want to see a similar issue with 720 over something like that?

 

[xAzatothx]

I still think we need a revolution in the gaming industry, I'm not sure I have the appetite for Halo 10, Forza 10, FIFA 20, COD 15, F12019 with just better graphics.............wake me up when the console has a cerebral cortex output and I can be fully immersed into an alien world just as if it was real