New XBOX (XBox One)

[shutyertrap]

Well, the Xbox has always justified it because the penalties for misuse were so harsh (you lose your account) that those who paid tended to play fairer and not be griefers and such ruining everyone's play.

There is a website where the Xbox Live team posts responses to complaints from people whose accounts got locked.

With PS3, you just create a new PSN account, go online, grief until you get bored or banned, then make a new account, lather rinse repeat (of course, you don't do this on your main account with all your games).

Then again, free multiplayer has always been the PS3's advantage - PS+ never did give you much other than updates and such. The free games were added later, though really, the Sony PS website is absolutely horrible compared to the Xbox one. Finding information about PS+ like what free games there is is complex (if you're lucky, you'll stumble across the blog entries, IF you can find them), they don't list past historical games (they say they never removed a game from the offering - it's false according to my friends).

Anyhow, the big thing is this will be the generation of consoles able to do full HD. Little secret has always been that most games run at 720p30. PS3 always showed it due to lack of a scaler, but Xbox as well (if the game has it. Some games like Halo 3 were line doubled 540p). Always a bit of irony since Sony kept mocking the HD-DVD crowd for their cheap players only supporting 1080i while their blu-rays always supported 1080p "*FULL* HD!" and you stick in a PS3 game and it only runs at 720p.

At least this time around, we can probably get 1080p30, if not 1080p60 all the time.

I'm sorry but I've NEVER run across the multiplayer hulligans on PS3 that seem to run wild on Xbox. Maybe it's the games I play, and this is a sentiment I've seen expressed by a lot of other PS3 users, but by and large the crowd we find online is not the crowd I've seen countless YouTube videos made of 360 abusers.

I also laugh at 360 users constantly saying the PSN store is a horrible web experience. Do you hear us moaning about being barraged by ads and products on our dashboards? That's cause we aren't, which is strange considering ours is the free service! I said when PS+ started it seemed like a price gouge, and while I've tried it, I don't have it anymore because I didn't use it to it's fullest. That being said, if I just got a PS3 or Vita, the whole instant game collection is an awesome introduction to what games are out there. The fact you don't have to pay extra for the Vita version is huge too (if I owned a Vita).

As for the blog, I get a new one everyday in email. Not so hard to find, as it almost borders on spamming. You just have to sign up for it.

Finally, while you are correct that most multiplatform titles are in 720p, most 1st party titles are 1080. All you need to do is check the back of the box.

I'm not trying to be a Playstation apologist on this Xbox thread, but I am going to stand up for my personal experiences with it. I never considered I'd like playing online against or with people, wasn't my thing. Rock Band opened my eyes to how fun it was, and it's grown to other games since. Had I been on Xbox, I never would have found that joy because I wouldn't have paid for Gold membership. Are there things Sony needs to improve upon that XBL has? Absolutely. And if they want to make those a part of PS+, go for it.

But having to pay to play online is silly, and Xbox is the only one charging for it.

 

[Worf]

Depends on the games,r eally. FPSes tend to draw the worst.

But PSN web site is HORRIBLE. One thing I like about the Xbox one is everything I can do on the Xbox, I can do on the web. Very handy when I'm away from it and want to pick up on a sale without my Xbox present, I just go online and do it. More importantly, I can enter the redemption codes on the web, rather than on the console (which often I find having to plug in a USB keyboard).

So primarily, why can't I go and schedule downloads on my PS3 via the web? Someone tells me something cool to download, I can just buy it then and there, I don't have to remember it and go to the store and download it later. Not even sure if I can message my friends on PSN from the web. I guess you can, since I think you can compare trophies online as well.

So basically - why can't I shop the PSN store on the web? Do everything there instead of heading to my PS3.

As for ads - I haven't found a way to disable the damned ticker on my PS3 - probably the single most annoying ad I've seen. In firmware 2.0, they let you disable it, but firmware 3.0 removed the option. Only way to get rid of it is unplug the network connection. Funny that has bothered me way more than the Xbox flashy moving tiles have.

 

[karl]

Very interesting to read your comments on the camera business shutyertrap as I work in a rental house myself and I find your post on the subject close to heart and very accurate. Very amazed how similar it is here on the other side of the world. The same cameras and the same situations regarding production companies and tv studios. What I find over here is that there is a lot more small production companies now than before with less money. Those small canon photo cameras are getting very popular for shooting video (along with Reds) Many choose to just buy a cheap camera that has a lot of ad on possibilities and just rent all the extra stuff. (that is way more expensive than the camera) This of course makes the job a lot harder for people like me because you have many different configurations and to make one thing work with every camera out there can often be a pain in the ... Sorry for drifting away from the xbox subject here.

 

[shutyertrap]

Many choose to just buy a cheap camera that has a lot of ad on possibilities and just rent all the extra stuff. (that is way more expensive than the camera) This of course makes the job a lot harder for people like me because you have many different configurations and to make one thing work with every camera out there can often be a pain in the

This is why I hate working with the RED! You just get used to building it a certain way, working out the kinks of where to put what accessory, cable management, and then you go work on another show with the exact same camera but completely different set of accessories! You spend the first half of the day trying to figure the thing out once again. Was so much simpler when it was either a Panavision camera (who's aks was ALWAYS the same regardless of cam model) or Arri which had a few odd bits here and there but was still easily assembled.

Back to somewhat of the thread topic...

Worf, I agree that it is silly I can't purchase for PSN on a PC. And no, I believe the only place you can message from is within the PS3. If that is the diff between a paying an annual fee or not, then I could care less! Again, throw all those bells and whistles into PS+. As for the ticker, I barely even notice it myself. I don't tend to spend a lot of time on the XMB.

Lemme try and bring it back around to 720 talk. Is it to the point for you Xbox owners that you don't even think about renewing Gold? Do you think the cost will go up for the new system? And are you fine with XBL how it is now, or are there things you're hoping will be added? I'm guessing that you kind of have a preview of what it will look like considering Windows 8 is out. Good thing or cause for worry?

 

[Mark W**a]

Finally, while you are correct that most multiplatform titles are in 720p, most 1st party titles are 1080. All you need to do is check the back of the box.
.

You are in for a shocking surprise.

All 360 and PS3 titles list 1080P on the back of the box. Halo 3 says 1080P back there and it's actually 540P. It means nothing.

No PS3 exclusives run at 1080P. Unless you count PSN games like Wipeout HD, Super Star Dust and others (same as 360 has lots of XBLA games in 1080P.

Resistance, Killzone, Uncharted, Infamous, God of War, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. all render at 720P. Basically any game that pushes the hardware to any degree is 720P. This goes all the way back to the beginning. Lair, Heavenly Sword, etc. etc. everything is 720P. Maybe PlayStation Smash Bros or Little Big Planet Kart Racing are 1080P but I doubt that.

Oh GT5 I think is variable 1080i/p, which means it switches resolutions on the fly. That's the closest I can think to a major PS3 exclusive that runs 1080P.

 

[Mark W**a]

Lemme try and bring it back around to 720 talk. Is it to the point for you Xbox owners that you don't even think about renewing Gold? Do you think the cost will go up for the new system? And are you fine with XBL how it is now, or are there things you're hoping will be added? I'm guessing that you kind of have a preview of what it will look like considering Windows 8 is out. Good thing or cause for worry?

I got Xbox Live back in 2002. Back when I owned a Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube and Xbox 1. I used to play Capcom vs. SNK 2, Halo 2, Street Fighter 3rd Strike, and Phantasy Star Online. Back then it was the only real online service. And I loved it. Alot.

I was so addicted to Halo 2 and I used to play 3rd Strike at tournaments (still do sorta), and I never once cared that they charged. 50 bucks a year is nothing, it's like less than 5 bucks a month. Plus I always got 2 month free cards back then, so I don't think I ever really paid for live until the 360 gen. And we abused deals back in the day where I got 3 years for like 60 bucks. If you're a cheap ass gamer there's ways around it, but I don't even care about 60 a year I've bought two full year cards at full price and not really given a damn.

It is what it is really. From 2002 to around 2009 the 360 online was totally worth it, it was just better than PSN in every way. Today, PSN has mostly caught up, but still it's not fully there yet. This will all be moot, IMO, very soon. I predict paid online play from Sony with the PS4. If they continue not to charge then good for them.

You may think I'm an Xbox fan because I didn't bother with Sony this gen. That actually couldn't be further from the truth. I am a big fan of Japanese games, I owned and loved the PS1 and PS2. Reason I don't have a PS3 is because there are no good, big Japanese exclusives. I didn't give a damn about the 360 and had every intention of selling it for a PS3, so I could play Devil May Cry 4, Virtua Fighter 5, and Final Fantasy XIII. I was sure all the good Japanese exclusives would be PS3 exclusives. I was also convinced that the machine was going to be much more powerful. Neither turned out to be true. What ended up happening was 360 ended up getting big Japanese exclusives. Dead Rising 1, Lost Oddysey, Blue Dragon, and Chromehounds early on, the announcement that Cave was going 360 exclusive with their entire STG library, and the fact that everything else was multiplatform, that was enough for me to stick with the machine and really never look back.

Then weird stuff happened. 360 ended up getting an exclusive port of Virtual On Oratorio Tangram, my favorite game of all time. And a way better version of Bayonetta. Exclusive HD port of Rez, it just kept going on an on. So I've been very happy with the platform. It's like the Dreamcast 2 in my eyes.

I almost, finally caved in and got one because I really wanted to play House of the Dead 4. Then I learned that the cutscenes were prerendered, and the game had slowdown issues, and expensive Move peripherals had wonky aiming and shooting so I basically said F it and tbh I will probably never own the machine. Oh I also had intentions to buy the system for The Last Guardian (Huge Ico/Shadow of the Collosus fan)... but it's 2013 for crying out loud, where is it?

With PS4 and 8 it all starts over. If Sony has the better games, free online, more powerful console I'll jump ship in a heartbeat.

 

[Tabe]

No PS3 exclusives run at 1080P. Unless you count PSN games like Wipeout HD, Super Star Dust and others (same as 360 has lots of XBLA games in 1080P.

Mark, what is your source for this information? Like is there someplace that lists the actual resolutions that games are running at?

Tabe

 

[Mark W**a]

Mark, what is your source for this information? Like is there someplace that lists the actual resolutions that games are running at?

Tabe

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

 

[Tabe]

But PSN web site is HORRIBLE. One thing I like about the Xbox one is everything I can do on the Xbox, I can do on the web. Very handy when I'm away from it and want to pick up on a sale without my Xbox present, I just go online and do it. More importantly, I can enter the redemption codes on the web, rather than on the console (which often I find having to plug in a USB keyboard).

So primarily, why can't I go and schedule downloads on my PS3 via the web? Someone tells me something cool to download, I can just buy it then and there, I don't have to remember it and go to the store and download it later. Not even sure if I can message my friends on PSN from the web. I guess you can, since I think you can compare trophies online as well.

Sony just announced today that they'll be putting the PSN store online so it can do exactly what you've mentioned (a feature I can't believe they didn't have from the get-go...)

Tabe

 

[Worf]

Yeah, finally.

Always an annoyance when I don't have my PS3 out and want something. Or want to find out something like PS+ and all I get is marketing tripe rather than see what's actually in the store at that time. Plus, if you want to see what DLC is available, it's far easier to look at the store page and see the DLC for purchase then and t here.

And Microsoft didn't have it from the get-go either - at least not at first. It took them a few years to get their account management stuff up to snuff - I think it happened around NXE.

 

[Mark W**a]

The more I learn, the more orbis is looking to be the more attractive specs.

8 gigs of ram doesn't mean crap if its slow, ddr3 poo like what's in the Wii u. 4 gigs of gddr5 is just so much better for a gaming console. Though they are talking about an edRam solution but still...

Too many unknowns. Bleh

 

[Mark W**a]

Basically I follow this everyday like a newspaper, and new developments every day.

Well it looks like the Durango setup could be ddr3 ram with 384 bit bus. Meaning over 100 gb/s transfer. Insanely fast for ddr3, triple the 360 ram speed, but still short of the ps4's 192 gb/s speed for the ram.

However were talking double the ram here, 8 vs 4 gb. Furthermore Durango has a SRAM which is at least 256gb/s probably faster and there's 32 Meg's of that. The 10mb of eDRam in 360 was one of the reasons the machine was able to outperform ps3 so how this whole ram setup in Durango works vs the orbis setup remains to be seen. Tbh I'm not sure what's better 4 gigs of screaming fast ram vs 8 gigs of pretty fast ram with a 32meg super charger lol.

Too many unknowns to say anything. Orbis isn't even final silicon but I'm confident they will manage 4 gigs when it's all said and done. As for Durango assuming all of what I've read so far is accurate the only question remaining is how big is the os footprint, how powerful is the gpu and how efficient is this unique ram setup going to be vs the more traditional orbis design.

So far devs have had nothing but good things to say about both.

Next gen is coming! Excited for all 3 new systems (dont forget steam box).

One final note. 360 BC is looking likely, just in case anyone was concerned. Orbis BC however is extremely unlikely.

Tl:dr still too early to say which machine is better, right now it's a wash pretty much, too early to call need more info.

 

[Worf]

It's not about what you got in technical specs, it's how well you can use it. After all, the PS3 specs are supposed to be better than the Xbox, but developers just aren't making use of the full power of it (and the separate memory doesn't help). However, if you can get the 6 SPUs going full tilt, there is some massive amount of computation available.

Or in other words, someone like me will just buy all the available consoles and work from there. Of course, the problem is trying to figure out which platform a game was designed for so you get the best experience.

 

[karl]

That is wise words Worf. Specs do not mean anything if game developers have problems making use of the hardware, but It is always fun to follow the hardware war between microsoft and Sony. Just don't be to excited about the one with the fanciest setup before the launch games are here and the verdict from important game makers are in. I will be very surprised if Sony has not learned a few things since PS3. Microsoft won that battle. I sold my PS3 many years ago. The only problem with the 360 was that the machine kept breaking down all the time ;-) Is there anyone out there who has never had "the red ring of death?)

 

[Nik Barbour]

Re: New XBOX (720)

Is there anyone out there who has never had "the red ring of death?)

Me (but I did only buy in July last year).

Friend of mine who has had a pair since launch, is so fast at repairing RROD, he can reflow the solder in about 15mins and be playing again.
He's cut base holes and put cabinet feet on both his and always runs flat for solder puddling purposes.

 

[bavelb]

Is there anyone out there who has never had "the red ring of death?)

Well mine redringed, but it was a 1st gen xbox which died only last fall after 6 years of service. But I also heard horrorstories about people who had send in theirs 4 times already or were on their 4th xbox.

In regards to the"Specs vs usability" and "longevity issues" I think both companies have learned their lessons as both are made from basically of-the-shelf pc components and I think both will spend a lot of time on their QA this round.

In all honesty I think the 2 consoles will be close to indistinguishable when it comes to performance. I think the real "war" will be fought on the services front: which console will offer the most/best services for your buck.

 

[Rafie]

That is wise words Worf. Specs do not mean anything if game developers have problems making use of the hardware, but It is always fun to follow the hardware war between microsoft and Sony. Just don't be to excited about the one with the fanciest setup before the launch games are here and the verdict from important game makers are in. I will be very surprised if Sony has not learned a few things since PS3. Microsoft won that battle. I sold my PS3 many years ago. The only problem with the 360 was that the machine kept breaking down all the time ;-) Is there anyone out there who has never had "the red ring of death?)

I'm trying very hard not to start a war here, but I don't know why some people keep saying Microsoft won this battle. They didn't win any battle. It's too close to say who won what. There are huge pros and cons to both systems and people cling to their preferences that substantiate their enjoyment. Whether it be online, media hubs, exclusive IPs, etc. Where one platform declines, the other excels and vice versa. There is no clear cut winner as you all will still see that individuals will stick to their console and debate about who is better as there are fanboys/girls in both crowds. Oh and this is coming from someone who owns all the systems including the last gen.

To answer the question.....no I never had the RROD or YLOD! Thankfully!

 

[Carl Spiby]

There are no winners, the only losers are those arguing one console is better than the other

 

[superballs]

There are no winners, the only losers are those arguing one console is better than the other

But our side's losers have fancier tape holding our glasses together.

 

[monty22001]

With the long lifepsans of the consoles I don't see why people just don't get both. I don't get Nintendo stuff anymore after the Gamecube since I moved out of that style of gaming. Sony/Microsoft though are both good systems. I prefer the PS3 but I have both.