*NITPICK WARNING!* Zen Pinball - why?

[Zombie Aladdin]

Yeah, I could see that with Sorcerer's Lair, although they'd have to get a bit creative with things, such as the giant tree bending over and stuff like that. It'd be pretty fun in real life actually.

There are also the teleporting balls in that portal mission and the two mini-playfields. The cellar one could be a sub-level playfield like with AC/DC, though the Behind the Wall mini-playfield would have to be a monitor-based video mode.

What's interesting to me about Sorceror's Lair in translatability into a real table is that it's one of the few Zen tables to have rollover switches rendered onto the table itself. Most of the other ones don't, and that leads me to believe there really IS some desire at Zen to make it real.

 

[Eaton Beaver]

I actually like the Zen original tables and hope they do some sequels to the originals. I hadn't played it for a long while but last night I played Dr. Strange on Marvel Pinball and set a new personal best of 43,169,030. Don't get me wrong I think The Pinball Arcade is the better game but I also enjoy playing Zen and think Zen tables would make great real life pinball tables.

 

[mpad]

Hey, if someone would make them to real life tables they could be recreated in TPA!

 

[netizen]

Hey, if someone would make them to real life tables they could be recreated in TPA!

How meta would that be?

Let's start a poll

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

By the way, has anyone noticed Zen Studios is a sponsor for IFPA? That demonstrates at least some level of interest in non-virtual pinball, and the only reasons Zen would sponsor IFPA is if they love pinball that much that they will take a loss as a sponsor, and/or they have plans of making real machines that they hope will be used in competitions.

 

[netizen]

or it's, wait for it, a tax write off as a business

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

I thought Farsight sponsored for IFPA as well.

 

[jaredmorgs]

How meta would that be?

Let's start a poll

Someone talk to Skit-B or Ben Heck. If it can be done, these guys can do it.

 

[WhiteChocolate]

zombie alladin, yeah very agreed about mode lockout - although i'm torn about whether i like the "six-scene" modes, say of the SW tables and other movie-like ones in the same vein. it's simulataneously a "good and bad" idea for a movie board; you want to guide the player a bit to progress logically through the plot... but it hasn't nearly the same amount of fun as wailing away at "monster bash". yeah they would do well to separate out some of the gaming, what to hit and when... (some boards, i just can't tell even what to hit next; seems whatever should be flashing, isn't!)

"spiderman" was the one that really sold me on their sense of design; i'm pretty sure i bought SW5:ESB previous to that to try, but... even though i'm not as big a marvel/classic comics fan as my other geekbuds, the "spiderman" table kinda did it for me. love the spiral-wire-loop mechanics; that one that comes up underneath the flippers were a fun surprise (and sometimes still is - don't know how realistic that is in a RW design though, without a little anti-magnetism!).

"epic quest" is a good bit of fun; like a miniature golf-course designed table. some of the best ones are, RW and virtual. i'd never known there was a "gilligan's island" table until recently; it looks rather fun! (i'd love to see one in TBA... not -too- expensive, hmmm? ;0)

tabe, yeah "sorcerer's lair" would be a great one for a holographic table! there are hardly any good "haunted house" PBs (including the eponymous gottleib table). that one straddles a nice line between the haunted house vibe to the mystical/harry potter theme.

"annd the rest..." (thinking of "gilligan's island" ;0) how much of zen's special effects could be achievable with a real-life table... if, say, the player were wearing a set of "google glass"-style glasses plugged into the table's computer, see-thru but could then project the table's 3D effects in front of them while they play ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

(sorry for all the extra marks, but damn one of those brainstormy ideas that just exploded inside my head!)

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

What I mean by mode lockout is that once a mode begins, you are locked in it until it ends. Most of Zen's tables let you do them in any order you'd like, but when you're in a mode, nothing else can progress, and a few shots are worth huge points while everything else is worth almost nothing. That's what annoys me.

or it's, wait for it, a tax write off as a business

You can do a tax writeoff through sponsoring something? That's the first I've heard regarding that.

 

[Espy]

What I always thought would be cool would be if Jersey Jack asked Zen to make a virtual mini-playfield to be displayed on the LCD at certain points on their pinball machines. it would be a nice blend of styles, and much cheaper and space-efficient than building one into the main game. Zen have a knack for making fun mini-playfields (in fact, three if not four of the tables in their new pack have them).

 

[netizen]

You can do a tax writeoff through sponsoring something? That's the first I've heard regarding that.

If the Sponsorship is considered advertising/marketing for the businesses who do the sponsorship it is tax deductible.

 

[Zaphod77]

Zen's rule design is very hit and miss.

Their designers have the same screwed up ideas that often exist in visual pinball originals. SOme very common themes.

1) steerable inlane/outlanes to turn on kickbacks or the ball saver. So a lot of tables are foreverable by making an effort to relight the ball saver.
2) penalty shots. One particularly horrid example is Bushman mode in Moon Knight. You have to shoot some shots, but NOT shoot the shots right next to them.. which you will inevitably accidentally hit while aiming for what you are supposed to, loosing progress on finishing the mode. This is simply NOT DONE in real pinball. At worst in real pinball you can screw up your mode stacking plans.
3) artificially difficult and easy shots in the strangest of places. For the former we have the baxter building in fantastic four, which would be super easy in real life. For the latter we have the side orbit and ramp in spiderman, where any reasonably aimed shot will magically go up one or the other.

SpiderMan were it not for the ease of exploiting the ruleset, is one of their better examples of their rule design.

 

[Espy]

2) penalty shots. One particularly horrid example is Bushman mode in Moon Knight. You have to shoot some shots, but NOT shoot the shots right next to them.. which you will inevitably accidentally hit while aiming for what you are supposed to, loosing progress on finishing the mode. This is simply NOT DONE in real pinball. At worst in real pinball you can screw up your mode stacking plans.

I actually like this idea. Puts an emphasis on accuracy and makes things a bit more difficult and urgent.

Zen have some pretty cool ideas that aren't on real tables, and I don't think we should diss them for that. If they just made bog standard tables they wouldn't be nearly as interesting to play.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

If the Sponsorship is considered advertising/marketing for the businesses who do the sponsorship it is tax deductible.

That sounds like the most easily exploitable law in tax deductability. It'd be a complete win-win for the company.

 

[Zaphod77]

I actually like this idea. Puts an emphasis on accuracy and makes things a bit more difficult and urgent.

When you are SURE you timed the flipper right and it goes cleanly into the shot next to the one you were aiming for you and loosing progress on the mode, you WILL rage. It pisses me off every single time, and makes the mode an exercise in frustration. See there are three different sweet spots for each shot, and which one works seems completely random to me. You guess wrong about which sweet spot, you hit the neighboring shot.

You aim for the middle sweet spot for the shot you want, but you can just as easily hit one of the two next to it, and in bushman mode, that's BAD.

This phenomena happens on real pinball games after they've been broken in as well, but then you rarely get screwed over by it because real designers don't inflict this hell on you.

A good example of this is HS2. You can aim for the orbit and hit burn rubber cleanly instead, and vice versa, if the game isn't freshly waxed. if it is, you hit the post instead.

 

[Espy]

When you are SURE you timed the flipper right and it goes cleanly into the shot next to the one you were aiming for you and loosing progress on the mode, you WILL rage. It pisses me off every single time, and makes the mode an exercise in frustration. See there are three different sweet spots for each shot, and which one works seems completely random to me. You guess wrong about which sweet spot, you hit the neighboring shot.

You aim for the middle sweet spot for the shot you want, but you can just as easily hit one of the two next to it, and in bushman mode, that's BAD.

This phenomena happens on real pinball games after they've been broken in as well, but then you rarely get screwed over by it because real designers don't inflict this hell on you.

A good example of this is HS2. You can aim for the orbit and hit burn rubber cleanly instead, and vice versa, if the game isn't freshly waxed. if it is, you hit the post instead.

Maybe it's harder in Moon Knight. One of the modes in Starfighter Assault is similar but a lot more forgiving. You need to hit a set of shots once, if you make five unlit shots the mode is failed. So not as harsh, but I think it's a nice touch.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

One of the main missions in Blade ("Nocturnal Visitors," I believe) is like that to the extreme--there is ONE shot you must do to progress in the mode, and all other ramps and loops will penalize you. If you miss three times, it's over. I think "Kathari Katana" is like that as well, but I don't know because I rarely choose it as it's the hardest one for me, and I'll go for the easy ones first to get some points in.

I really don't understand why Zen's missions must have a secondary lose condition. I'm guessing it's tied in to mode locking, as otherwise you'd be railroaded even more as you're stuck asked to make one specific shot until you drain.

 

[Zaphod77]

The table is tuned so that misses at the shots you do need to hit go cleanly up the penalty shots. if misses hit the posts instead i wouldn't get so angry.

 

[shogun00]

One of the main missions in Blade ("Nocturnal Visitors," I believe) is like that to the extreme--there is ONE shot you must do to progress in the mode, and all other ramps and loops will penalize you. If you miss three times, it's over. I think "Kathari Katana" is like that as well, but I don't know because I rarely choose it as it's the hardest one for me, and I'll go for the easy ones first to get some points in.

No, Kathari Kantana isn't like that. The biggest challenge with Kathari Kanatana is the short timer.