Not Zen at all

[Jeff Strong]

TPA was like eating a nice top sirloin steak, when all other digital pinball was hamburger at best. But then Zen comes along and is filet mignon. Both are cuts of steak, which is great, and until I tasted the filet I didn’t know any better, but now I do.

Chris, good analogy. Maybe a wee bit generous to Farsight, heh.

 

[mystman12]

When discussing physics on mobile, it's important to make sure you've unlocked the pro physics. Unfortunately someone at Zen thought it would be a great idea to lock the good physics behind either getting a table to level 3 or spending some Zen coins. If you have enough Zen coins I'd definitely recommend getting the option to have pro physics across all tables as that's far easier than grinding games up to 3 stars. If you still don't like the physics, I don't know what to say. The pro physics are far closer to real life than TPA ever was.

 

[HighFive]

It is no popular statement I’m introducing here. It is sur ton to dislike Pinball Arcade and to worship the Williams tables from Zen. Everywhere I read the same Zen fan statements: tables are beautiful done, physics are jawdropping and man, what are the TPA tables crude when compared. I wonder why! Really, I don’t like Zen at all and to make a statement: with Zen making Williams tables I am not happy at all! Here are some reasons:

1. Casual playing and enjoying on phones and tablets are ruined. Seriously the worst app ever made is the Williams app from Zen. It is unplayable and they killed all the fun! All the tables are ruined by this terrible freemium model and If you buy a package of tables the are crippled because you have to reach a certain level to play. How to reach the level is by shoot around on given tables. All fun is gone.

2. On my Mac I can’t use a controller. Is is not supported.

3. On my iPad en iPhone I can’t play with controller. It is not supported.

4. Om my Mac I can’t choose all keys for control. There are only by Zen selected keys available.

5. Tables are not genuine. Voices and artwork are censored

6. Where are the tables? Come on, since September 2018 they only launced 18 tables!!!

Ok, the apps look much better than TPA! That's a pro. But I wish the rights would be back to TPA. Current situation is not zen at all!

First welcome to the board!

1- Yes, i agree with you here, i really dont love their mobile approach, but, with a little bit of work when tables are released, you can move them up to two stars easily, which mean you can fully play them. Just spend money on Pro Physics if you want it, its worth it imo. An option to buy them simply would have been great, but its not like TPA. But hey, you can get them for FREE. Trust me, iv done my part of *****ing about this on these board, i still dont like it, but i got the latest tables free.

2- Dont have a mac, cant comment. You should write to Zen about that.

3- Support for IOS for controllers like PS4 is now in, but not in the app yet. Perhaps later we will see it? Id love to have it too, it might be coming one day.

4- Again not sure, dont have a mac.

5- Artworks and voices are not censored on the IOS app, only saw censorship on consoles version. Perhaps Mac is censored too?

6- Yes, we all want more tables, the release ratio is a bit disappointing, but wishing the rights go back to TPA, im not behind you with that quote. Physics are much better, and at least, we got update from devs that things are coming. Thing i hope to see is Zen making custom DMD for these now dmd tables that are going to be released in the future. Its sad that we wont see new tables till May, but im expecting something cool coming. A new table we havent seen yet from TPA will shut some people mouth, including myself, to see that something new from this is coming.

 

[The loafer]

Overall I like what Zen has done with the license. There is no denying overall (always some exceptions ), this is a better product than the previous competition. But yeah, I'll agree I'm just not a fan of the premium model on mobile. I have an Ipad and just won't play it. FFS, let me BUY the damn tables with everything unlocked so I can just play when I'm not at home. Obviously the premium model is successful so I totally get why they went that way but just make a version for those (who are many as well) like me who just want to play. Kill all the extra BS that comes with it, kill the leaderboards if it causes too many issues (but would prefer there's one leaderboard reserved for the "buyers club" but please just put out a version that just works as if I put a damn coin inside a real pin. That's all I want.

 

[Hammerjoe]

I’ve yet to even come close to mastering that shot either, but I can nail the right orbit and lock balls like a boss. AFM I have pretty well dialed in, but Junk Yard’s left ramps are impossible to me. Thing is, same situation on the real table. We all got kinda used to the vacuum ramps of TPA, which always screwed up my muscle memory when I came across a real machine. With Zen, I find a lot of it translates perfectly whether playing digitally or in person.

The problem is that in the challenges we dont control what physics are used. same in the league games.

 

[Pete]

I like the title it's creative and really gets em' where it hurts. it's like hey zen not very fx'y are you. I honestly havnt played the mobile version in 6-7 maybe even 8 months. It was stealing zen coins from me, and they did give me some coins back when i complained and showed the error but I just lost interest. just too much grinding, just want to own and play how i feel like playing like on pc and consoles. Really enjoying the tables on my ps4 and pc, zen is doing a great job with those. I wish I had paid the 20 buck limited deal when the williams app first came out to fully own a chunk of the tables, if only i had known that $20 was worth 100's of hours of grinding. At this point with new tables added in I dont even want to know how bleak the grind will be. luckily for me i have a full set of TPA on my phone and that takes care of my on the go digital pinball needs.

 

[Michelle]

Put me in the “Zen’s-Williams-app-sucks” crowd.

I’ve installed it a few times – hoping in vain that Zen would have revised the pay model to make it more like Farsight’s. But, after getting frustrated with the grind, just deleted the damn thing.

The other thing that I don’t like about Zen is they only release stuff from the nineties. Farsight was much better at showcasing tables from each era – including classic EM machines.

 

[Jeff Strong]

It truly is a shame that the app itself turned so many away, as the table quality, physics, etc. are light years ahead of what we had with Farsight. I’m a PC player so thankfully it’s not an issue there, but I really do feel bad for those who are soured on the F2P nature of the app. The same thing has recently happened with the official Scrabble app: it used to be a premium, pay-once-and-get-everything experience, but now they’ve completely relaunched and they’ve turned it into a Candy Crush clone. I’d be ok with having both options, but they’re completely killing off the old, premium version by shutting down the servers. My wife and I have been daily players since I bought the original app over 10 years ago, but the new app is so cluttered and annoying with all the challenges from random players, quests, and such that you can’t turn off. I’ve managed to talk my wife into not deleting if for now, but I fear she’ll get annoyed and nuke it completely before too long. So I do feel your pain.

 

[Hammerjoe]

I dont mind the grinding but the tables get on my nerves with some of the moves it pulls to drain the balls. theres a couple tables that I am starting to hate like Hurricane, safecracaker because they are ball drain fest.

I dont mind the f2p model and the grind, but when doing the challenges having to replay the same table 5 6 7 times it becomes annoying especially the 5 minute ones.

they better come out with new tables because I dont know how much longer I will be playing.

 

[shutyertrap]

I dont mind the grinding but the tables get on my nerves with some of the moves it pulls to drain the balls. theres a couple tables that I am starting to hate like Hurricane, safecracaker because they are ball drain fest.

I dont mind the f2p model and the grind, but when doing the challenges having to replay the same table 5 6 7 times it becomes annoying especially the 5 minute ones.

they better come out with new tables because I dont know how much longer I will be playing.

Safe Cracker was specifically designed to be a ball drain bonanza. I pay the 5 tickets needed to not play it in challenges because it’s brutal. Hurricane is rough because with base physics, the Cyclone ramp spam technique doesn’t work without nudge (which we’ve established is not friendly on mobile) and it’s a table that scores a bunch in the bonus count, which you don’t get in Survival or 5 Minute. I pay the tickets to skip it too. Champion Pub is the other I rarely play in challenges.

Fun fact...if you know you are going to fail the challenge, exit out of it and restart. It won’t deduct the ticket cost of the failed attempt. If you wait till after the time is up, you’re too late.

 

[Hammerjoe]

What is the difference between Pro mode enabled and disabled?

Anyway I am done playing Arcade mode. Today was the last straw for me. I just dont see the fun in not being able to play for more than 30 seconds and I have tried. Sure I have had games that I managed to play for a minute or two but one hand is enough to count them.

From the daily challenges I find that Attack from mars is a very easy one to play. It one of the few ones that I can get it going. I can usually beat the challenges with only draining a few balls but switch to the arcade mode and its a new table from hell. The drainage is but almost immediate and cannot get any game play going.

So Im just going to be playing the challenges and keep skipping tables to try to have fun playing this.
At least I will be playing for a few minutes each time.

I know I am very critical but believe me, I like pinball and I was excited to play this Williams app with real tables but man the game sucks out the fun out of me.
Real tables cannot behave like this otherwise nobody plays them. This sucks.

 

[dmil666]

Safe Cracker was specifically designed to be a ball drain bonanza. I pay the 5 tickets needed to not play it in challenges because it’s brutal. Hurricane is rough because with base physics, the Cyclone ramp spam technique doesn’t work without nudge (which we’ve established is not friendly on mobile) and it’s a table that scores a bunch in the bonus count, which you don’t get in Survival or 5 Minute. I pay the tickets to skip it too. Champion Pub is the other I rarely play in challenges.

Ditto for me, usually. I'll sometimes play Safe Cracker or Hurricane challenges if I'm feeling froggy, but never Champion Pub, I just don't like the table. I don't play Circus Voltaire much either, due to having to use view #5 because Zen screwed up view #2 on that table, and view #5 does that weird table angle change on multiballs, which is not a helpful feature. I hope Zen fixes that someday. Yeah, right....

 

[shutyertrap]

What is the difference between Pro mode enabled and disabled?

Real tables cannot behave like this otherwise nobody plays them. This sucks.

Pro mode is the new Williams physics. If disabled, you are playing standard Zen physics, which includes higher angled flippers and less spin on the ball.

Do you ever play real tables? They were designed to have the random player have about 30-45 seconds with each ball. Site operators could change outlane posts to be hungrier, increase the rake of the machine, and do all manner of scoring adjustments. The idea was to find just the right balance of making a person drop that next quarter without making it so easy that they never had to. The purpose of multiball is to confuse you into losing balls quicker, not so you can run up a big score (that’s the carrot they dangle). Read any pinball flyer and all it does is pump up how high your profits will be.

 

[shogun00]

Do you ever play real tables? They were designed to have the random player have about 30-45 seconds with each ball. Site operators could change outlane posts to be hungrier, increase the rake of the machine, and do all manner of scoring adjustments. The idea was to find just the right balance of making a person drop that next quarter without making it so easy that they never had to. The purpose of multiball is to confuse you into losing balls quicker, not so you can run up a big score (that’s the carrot they dangle). Read any pinball flyer and all it does is pump up how high your profits will be.

Indeed! The operator's manual contains a huge section on just the adjustments you can make "to maximize profits". Interesting enough, the arcade machine manufacturers took it a step further and supplied statistics in their manuals.

According to Capcom's Final Fight manual, they found that players are more like to put more money in if they get at least 2 minutes of game time on the first quarter.

 

[wilbers]

Indeed! The operator's manual contains a huge section on just the adjustments you can make "to maximize profits". Interesting enough, the arcade machine manufacturers took it a step further and supplied statistics in their manuals.

According to Capcom's Final Fight manual, they found that players are more like to put more money in if they get at least 2 minutes of game time on the first quarter.

Did that have settings so that on average you got a longer game on first quarter, than if you played another game immediately afterwards?

Suppose the other variables with pinball are length of ball save, chance for free game with match at the end, chance of free ball as random reward, and replay level.

Last week I put £2 into a Spiderman for 3 credits - that had a very low replay level - think it started at 10M and changed to 20M (does the replay level usually change depending on how well/badly recent players have done?). Ended up having 7 or 8 games on it, and still leaving a credit on it when my lunch arrived. It did have the extra challenge of a stuck flipper on my first game which fixed itself after the ball hit it a few times, and something had dropped off partly blocking the right in-lane.

 

[shutyertrap]

Last week I put £2 into a Spiderman for 3 credits - that had a very low replay level - think it started at 10M and changed to 20M (does the replay level usually change depending on how well/badly recent players have done?). Ended up having 7 or 8 games on it, and still leaving a credit on it when my lunch arrived. It did have the extra challenge of a stuck flipper on my first game which fixed itself after the ball hit it a few times, and something had dropped off partly blocking the right in-lane.

I don’t know about Stern, but Williams System 11 machines certainly had the replay value change up and down depending on recent scoring.

I hopped on a Centaur machine a few years back that on one quarter I managed to stay on the machine for over an hour, racking up at one point 12 credits. This was an arcade with 30 machines on site, all very well maintained. I talked to a tech that was working on the machine next to me, and she said they purposely made the free game threshold low on it because they really wanted people to try Centaur, and having credits left on the game (and indeed I left 4) means people would give it a shot. If they liked it, they’d then be more likely to try some of the other machines that were of similar era. She said they usually set 2 or 3 machines up like this so people's money would keep them in their a bit longer, making them more likely to hit the bar. Too bad for them I don’t like alcohol!

 

[shogun00]

Did that have settings so that on average you got a longer game on first quarter, than if you played another game immediately afterwards?

Yes, it has dip switches. Final Fight had two difficulty settings (level difficulty and boss difficulty), number of lives, adjustable health bar size, and adjustable timer.

The dual difficulty setting is the most interesting part. You can make the overall levels easy, while make the boss fights hard.

Suppose the other variables with pinball are length of ball save, chance for free game with match at the end, chance of free ball as random reward, and replay level.

For pinball, you have quite a few options. CPU difficulty, replay level, replay and special award (credit, extra ball, ticket), individual feature/mission difficulty, score values on features, number of balls, match payout percentage, max number of credits/extra balls. And that's just naming a few of them. Modern pinball machines have over 100 adjustments available.

There are also some parts on the playfield that can be adjusted, such as outlane posts, incline, and flipper rubbers {each color represents rubber toughness; white/yellow = very elasticity, red = mid range, black = stiff}.

 

[warsaw303]

One thing I'm starting to get completely fed up with are the server issues. Just now I was trying to play some challenges — I got through one and then "There was a connection error to the game server. Please try again later.". This happens nearly every day. What is going on with Zen's server that it constantly has issues? I'm completely and totally sick of it.

 

[Pete]

yeah i actually decided to go back in and check it out again yesterday, and thats all i get after every challenge, like 30-40 seconds of trying to connect to sever before opening the case and then another 30-40 seconds of trying to connect after opening. and about 1/4th of the time it fails and needs do it again for another 30-40 seconds.

 

[meanpinball]

The server issues are annoying. However, once online, gameplay on an iPad Air, while not sluggish, is unacceptable due to the very slow refresh rate. It's tough to tell what's going on when you see 3 or 4 balls in play, all trailing the "lead" ball.

Switching to the computer, timing shots is pretty much impossible with keyboard switches. I've posted a thread to try to rectify both issues. Any input welcome.