Official Announcement.

[rehtroboi40]

hi [MENTION=1406]rehtroboi40[/MENTION] , hopefully we're all good to go down the line for sure!

Hi right back at ya, pushdrops! I was going to update my PS4 TPA with the last three seasons, but the license loss happened too quickly for me to afford it.

Boston Buckeye also posted some interesting items about Jon Norris. Unlike Norris (Surf N' Safari still rocks Jon!), I'm not holding my breath on an announcement from SG. They're already making money hand over fist with Slots. I wonder if it's because they're licensing some of their more popular properties for Pinball Re-release. Just some brain droppings (long live George Carlin) on my part.

 

[Rudy Yagov]

I was going to update my PS4 TPA with the last three seasons, but the license loss happened too quickly for me to afford it.

I did update my PS4 with all of the seasons... except I somehow missed season 4 and lost 8 WMS tables because of it. Whoops.

 

[The loafer]

I think the timing of the Nintendo switch release, the sub license to arcooda and the quick turn around on licensing leads me to think there was a change in the mood from the rights owner, a negative change.

 

[Jay]

Frankenstein is the free table.

Well that answers that. I was wondering why it miraculously appeared in my library when I had no interest in it and didn't buy it.

I'm really glad FS has allowed us to keep the ones we purchased. That's a heck of a lot better than Zen, which deleted three of my purchased tables without notice when they decided to no longer support them. (One reason I'll never do business with them again.)

 

[shutyertrap]

Well that answers that. I was wondering why it miraculously appeared in my library when I had no interest in it and didn't buy it.

I'm really glad FS has allowed us to keep the ones we purchased. That's a heck of a lot better than Zen, which deleted three of my purchased tables without notice when they decided to no longer support them. (One reason I'll never do business with them again.)

What tables did you lose? And on what platform?

 

[The loafer]

Yeah I don’t recall zen deleting tables. They didn’t upgrade all tables when they went to Pinball fx 3 but those tables that didn’t make the cut are still available in Pinball fx 2

 

[DA5ID]

South Park, plant vs zombies, street fighter, and ninja gaiden didn’t make it into 3 because of licensing, Xbox ones because of Microsoft

 

[shutyertrap]

South Park, plant vs zombies, street fighter, and ninja gaiden didn’t make it into 3 because of licensing, Xbox ones because of Microsoft

Yeah, but Jay was stating certain tables he paid for just up and disappeared. I wanted to know if it was different than just what was lost between FX2 and 3.

 

[The loafer]

South Park, plant vs zombies, street fighter, and ninja gaiden didn’t make it into 3 because of licensing, Xbox ones because of Microsoft

Right and you can still play those, in FX2, your purchase isn't gone.

Jay: what did Zen say when you contacted them after you noticed your tables disappeared? This has to be some bug and not the intent

 

[Jay]

What tables did you lose? And on what platform?

Zen Pinball Rollercoaster (one of the the first iOS pinball games) and Epic Quest on Mac were two. I can't recall the third table that vanished. But that's what soured me on that company. They made fun tables that I played a lot, and one day the tables simply vanished with no explanation and no recourse. (I found Zen's customer support to be basically non-existent.). I still had Sorcerer's Lair like everyone else, but I could play that for only so long. Even if I still had my tables, Zen seemed to be increasingly focused on endless tie-ins with movies rather than classic recreations or original tables so I probably wouldn't be purchasing additional tables anyway.

 

[jaredmorgs]

Even if I still had my tables, Zen seemed to be increasingly focused on endless tie-ins with movies rather than classic recreations or original tables so I probably wouldn't be purchasing additional tables anyway.

All of Zen's tables are, by definition, original tables.

 

[jonesjb]

The thing I don't like about Zen is it feels like the aim is assisted, as opposed to being realistic physics. If you try to purposely miss a ramp, by hitting just to the left and right it seems to correct the aim and hit the ramp correctly. Does anyone else notice this? Is this happening?

 

[shutyertrap]

Zen Pinball Rollercoaster (one of the the first iOS pinball games) and Epic Quest on Mac were two. I can't recall the third table that vanished. But that's what soured me on that company. They made fun tables that I played a lot, and one day the tables simply vanished with no explanation and no recourse. (I found Zen's customer support to be basically non-existent.). I still had Sorcerer's Lair like everyone else, but I could play that for only so long. Even if I still had my tables, Zen seemed to be increasingly focused on endless tie-ins with movies rather than classic recreations or original tables so I probably wouldn't be purchasing additional tables anyway.

Well looking at Pinball Rollercoaster I see that a) it's from 2008 and b) from a publisher that I've never heard of. If the publisher went belly up, there's your reason for not being able to download it again. Let's hear it for digital media! And the fact that app is so old, there's no telling it'd even work on today's iOS version. It probably went and disappeared when the phone updated and it no longer worked. I've had plenty of apps that won't open for that very reason. Yes it sucks you paid $4.99 and it went poof. Zen never made that table available on any other platform, which also tells you something.

I have no idea why Epic Quest would have vanished. How did you go about trying to contact Zen's customer support? I recently used their site to make contact and had a response within 24 hours. Did you have Epic Quest in FX2? You mentioned a 3rd title you can't recall, are there any purchases you made that you still have? Were they all in FX2 also?

I'm not sure where you got the idea that Zen ever did classic recreations, because they never did. They have done plenty of original creations, most recently the Son of Zeus table and Adventureland (hey look, a roller coaster!). With licensing, Zen is essentially doing what Stern has been doing for 20 years now, what JJP is doing, and what WMS did quite a bit in their latter years. At least Zen still does originals occasionally.

You soured on Zen, how are you on FarSight? Because honestly, I feel Zen really has treated their customers fantastically with table migrations from old gen to new gen platforms first, and then from FX2 to FX3. Tables I purchased in the original Zen Pinball on PS3 shifted over to Zen 2, and then shifted from that to FX3 on the PS4 without me having to re-buy anything. I suggest making a go of it again with their customer service https://blog.zenstudios.com/?page_id=5094 or email direct at support@zenstudios.com. And if you haven't tried any of their stuff recently, you really are missing out.

 

[shutyertrap]

The thing I don't like about Zen is it feels like the aim is assisted, as opposed to being realistic physics. If you try to purposely miss a ramp, by hitting just to the left and right it seems to correct the aim and hit the ramp correctly. Does anyone else notice this? Is this happening?

No, because there's way too many times I'm trying to hit a ramp or orbit and I don't make the shot. Their physics lean a little more toward arcade instead of sim, but that is by design. They are trying to tell a story with their tables, not eat your quarters by making each ball only last 30 seconds.

 

[jonesjb]

No, because there's way too many times I'm trying to hit a ramp or orbit and I don't make the shot. Their physics lean a little more toward arcade instead of sim, but that is by design. They are trying to tell a story with their tables, not eat your quarters by making each ball only last 30 seconds.

But when you don't make the shot, I notice that it will clearly miss the shot and go to another ramp or element on the playfield. It really misses the shot... there is no way to barely miss the shot or graze a ramp going up, and get poor momentum (only going halfway and rolling back down). Does this make sense?

 

[jonesjb]

No, because there's way too many times I'm trying to hit a ramp or orbit and I don't make the shot. Their physics lean a little more toward arcade instead of sim, but that is by design. They are trying to tell a story with their tables, not eat your quarters by making each ball only last 30 seconds.

But when you don't make the shot, I notice that it will clearly miss the shot and go to another ramp or element on the playfield. It really misses the shot... there is no way to barely miss the shot or graze a ramp going up, and get poor momentum (only going halfway and rolling back down). Does this make sense?

 

[Tripredacus]

I had some ideas, and would be truly speculation on my part. I have no secret knowledge of anything. This is in two parts. The first being that we do not know the details of the licensing agreement, do we? Was it an exclusive rights agreement? Meaning only Farsight could do stuff with those licenses and no one else could? Take this as an example. What if someone wanted to make a new Pinbot game in some fashion. Not just a "digital recreation" but say an actual machine, or perhaps sell art/media kits for the Multimorphic platform, or even mobile games featuring some of these titles and characters? If Farsight had an exclusive agreement with the licensor, then that could mean that any other use was off the table.

Now let's talk about the possibility of a new pinball machine. This idea immediately popped into my head after Barry Oursler was in Buffalo Pinball's Doctor Who stream last Monday. He did not say a whole lot, but he did talk about this new company he is working for. A new company that will make pinball machines. And Nick asked him (paraphrase) what he was expecting to accomplish with the new company and Barry said "take on Stern." So it is my idea that it is possible that this license needed to expire so that this new company, formed from previous Williams pinball creators, may be able to reacquire those licenses for their own products.

That's just my random thoughts on the subject tho.

 

[shutyertrap]

But when you don't make the shot, I notice that it will clearly miss the shot and go to another ramp or element on the playfield. It really misses the shot... there is no way to barely miss the shot or graze a ramp going up, and get poor momentum (only going halfway and rolling back down). Does this make sense?

Play Iron Man or Ghost Rider and you'll see there's plenty of opportunity to have a ball roll back down a ramp. I was just playing Mars a whole bunch a few weeks back and there was a target on the far right between a lane and a ramp that you had to flip just perfectly to hit, and missing didn't always send it up the ramp or in the lane, often it would careen around back toward the flippers.

I had some ideas, and would be truly speculation on my part. I have no secret knowledge of anything. This is in two parts. The first being that we do not know the details of the licensing agreement, do we? Was it an exclusive rights agreement? Meaning only Farsight could do stuff with those licenses and no one else could? Take this as an example. What if someone wanted to make a new Pinbot game in some fashion. Not just a "digital recreation" but say an actual machine, or perhaps sell art/media kits for the Multimorphic platform, or even mobile games featuring some of these titles and characters? If Farsight had an exclusive agreement with the licensor, then that could mean that any other use was off the table.

Now let's talk about the possibility of a new pinball machine. This idea immediately popped into my head after Barry Oursler was in Buffalo Pinball's Doctor Who stream last Monday. He did not say a whole lot, but he did talk about this new company he is working for. A new company that will make pinball machines. And Nick asked him (paraphrase) what he was expecting to accomplish with the new company and Barry said "take on Stern." So it is my idea that it is possible that this license needed to expire so that this new company, formed from previous Williams pinball creators, may be able to reacquire those licenses for their own products.

That's just my random thoughts on the subject tho.

Physical pinball is a completely different product from digital pinball, same as slot machines using digital imagery that originated on a pinball machine is different form digital pinball. They are not competing products, no one is going to mistake one for the other. Not until they are presented in a pinball cabinet, which is why Stern won't let any of their tables be put into cabinet mode for Arcooda.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Well, if you really want to know the kind of cash levels that Scientific Games operates at, look at this:

https://www.pennlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2018/07/winning_this_big-time_lottery.html

That's just one state. I imagine they run the lottery infrastructure in others too.

(Now I wonder if I could lobby my State Reps to give the contract to someone else because of SG's treatment of Farsight? Hmm.)

 

[Byte]

A new company that will make pinball machines. And Nick asked him (paraphrase) what he was expecting to accomplish with the new company and Barry said "take on Stern." So it is my idea that it is possible that this license needed to expire so that this new company, formed from previous Williams pinball creators, may be able to reacquire those licenses for their own products.

That's just my random thoughts on the subject tho.

That would be cool. Maybe a bit of competition can drive prices down. If they can use robotics/automation to do manufacturing, and are targeting the home enthusiast market as well (e.g. one with a lower-cost "standardized" cabinet design (not as in artwork but the physical makeup), less robust, without coin slots and associated hardware, modified ROM with only free mode, etc.). Main thing: it plays the same, so it will need to have the same components, except gimmicks like the fan on Whirlwind which don't need to be in the home version and don't affect gameplay too much.

Since you can't lower gravity by 25% I'm not sure 3/4 size cabinets (like Arcade 1UP offers) will work as well, but that's also something that can be tested.

Possibly the home versions could be sold through (via, not necessarily by) Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Amazon etc. websites to tap these unexplored markets. If they're lucky it's going to be the next cool nerdy thing to have in your rec room, home bar, office lunch room, etc.