PS3 - Request Option to disable two-stage flippers

[Quartrez]

I used to play TPA mostly on PS Vita, but due to the performance issues and poor graphic quality of most of the tables, I decided to switch to PS3.

Everything is fine and dandy, the game looks great, runs smoothly, and with the PS3 being set at 720p, there's barely any flipper lag. HOWEVER, there is one thing that bothers me about the PS3 version and that's the two-stage flippers. I understand that some purists might like it better that way and they're not bothered by the fact that you have to mash the buttons really hard for the upper flippers to go up, but to me, it's a serious hindrance more than anything. Because the L1 and R1 buttons aren't really designed to be used this way. It feels like I'm about to break my controller every time I want to use the upper flippers. It shouldn't have to be this way.

Now, take a look at Zen Pinball 2 (Not Star Wars Pinball, though, because that game has the same two-stage flipper problem that TPA does), a simple push activates both lower AND upper flippers. It's SO much easier. When I play TPA, I find myself AVOIDING tables that have two-stage flippers because of how unpractical they are. Games like Black Knight and Twilight Zone become almost unplayable. The L1 and R1 button sensitivity was probably not designed to be relied on so heavily, and it shows. Sometimes I push the button hard but the upper flippers still don't activate because I didn't push hard enough.

Like I said, maybe some people like it, but I find it's much more hindering than useful.

I understand that two-stage flippers weren't in the game before and were later implemented, but I don't get why you didn't add the option to turn that off. I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate.

PS: I'm aware a similar topic was done before, but that was almost six months ago, and FarSight didn't address the issue at all.

 

[ER777]

... (Not Star Wars Pinball, though, because that game has the same two-stage flipper problem that TPA does)...

In Star Wars Pinball after launching a table pause and go to the Operator's Menu. Select Utilities and then Extra Adjustments (note the message that says its ok to change these settings and you will still have access to the leaderboards and trophies). In that menu set the Upper Arms Sensitivity to 0 which means it will have no extra delay from when the lower flippers flip. You will need to do this on each table individually, but after you do you will no longer have the two-stage effect.

In Zen 2 they automatically made L1 & R1 a full-strength flip so all flippers activate simultaneously. However if you use L2 & R2 only setting* they will have the same two-stage effect as you see in TPA, unless you change the sensitivity in the operators menu like above.

*Not the 1 & 2 combo setting either - that takes the characteristics of the L1-R1 setting


As for TPA - Having a setting available to change that would be great but unfortunately I don't think its high on Farsight's priority list right now.

 

[shogun00]

Go into the options and switch the flippers from R1+L1 to R2+L2. The R2+L2 buttons don't require really hard presses and it puts less strain on your fingers.

 

[spoonman]

I've been asking for this since the day it was implemented.
2+ hours of dual stage flipping will do a job on once's fingers!

I've also requested the ability to play background music from the XBM on WPHOF & then again on TPA.
Farsight has said they are looking into it since 2008 so I kind of gave up on it.

 

[Quartrez]

Go into the options and switch the flippers from R1+L1 to R2+L2. The R2+L2 buttons don't require really hard presses and it puts less strain on your fingers.

While the L2 and R2 triggers do fix that problem to an extent, I find that the time required to actually release the trigger (so that the flipper goes down) nullifies whatever benefit they had.

In Star Wars Pinball after launching a table pause and go to the Operator's Menu. Select Utilities and then Extra Adjustments (note the message that says its ok to change these settings and you will still have access to the leaderboards and trophies). In that menu set the Upper Arms Sensitivity to 0 which means it will have no extra delay from when the lower flippers flip. You will need to do this on each table individually, but after you do you will no longer have the two-stage effect.

Thanks for that, I didn't know! Definitely gonna play more Star Wars Pinball now that I can get rid of the two-stage controls.

 

[ER777]

Thanks for that, I didn't know! Definitely gonna play more Star Wars Pinball now that I can get rid of the two-stage controls.

Any time, glad I could help.

I personally use the L2-R2 triggers because of their comfort factor for longer games, but they do take some getting used to.

 

[shogun00]

I personally use the L2-R2 triggers because of their comfort factor for longer games, but they do take some getting used to.

Indeed! I switched a few month ago. It took me awhile to get used to, but my fingers don't ache anymore when playing.

 

[ER777]

Yeah my hands used to cramp up when I used L1-R1. Then I realized that my index fingers naturally rested on L2-R2 when holding the controller casually, so I switched. That was probably almost a year ago, and like you said, no more aching hands since.

 

[Byte]

Did anyone ever think of modifying the controller itself? Would it be possible to modify the PS3 controller's L1 and R1 buttons (is there a dual-stage microswitch behind them that can be replace by a single-stage?) So with a single click it would appear to the PS3 that someone just pressed it all the way down?

I'm of the age of "auto rapid fire" joysticks so perhaps we can bring back some of the 1980s fun to the 2010s.

Edit: or does anyone reading this have one of these adapters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwtCh-nf70c and play it with a DualShock 2 ?

Edit2: I just tried playing with my Logitech Wireless RumblePad 2 for PC (which is almost identical to my PS2 controller) and guess what? It works! There is an issue with the left side of the controller, so it's hard to pick a table, but once you are on e.g. Twilight Zone, the two-stage flipper problem is GONE!

 

[ER777]

As I was reading your post I was thinking that some brands may not have pressure-sensitive shoulder buttons like the DS3 does, good find!

 

[shogun00]

I forgot about the third party controllers. Yes! Some of them don't have pressure/touch sensitive buttons, so that would work.

DualShock 2 controllers won't work, since they also have pressure sensitive buttons. The DualShock 1 controllers would do the trick though.

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

I have actually broke my L1 because of this

 

[Quartrez]

Edit2: I just tried playing with my Logitech Wireless RumblePad 2 for PC (which is almost identical to my PS2 controller) and guess what? It works! There is an issue with the left side of the controller, so it's hard to pick a table, but once you are on e.g. Twilight Zone, the two-stage flipper problem is GONE!

I tried that myself, and indeed, no more problems! The only downside is, like you mentioned, the fact that you can't really choose a table with the Logitech. The work-around I found is to unplug the Logitech controller, plug the Sixaxis back in (maybe those two steps are not necessary, I'll check that once my PS3 is done updating TPA), quit the game, launch the game again, choose another table, unplug the Sixaxis and plug the Logitech back in. It's a bit tedious, but hey, at least it gets rid of the two-stage flippers. It still would be better if we had the possibility to deactivate two-stage flippers, but it's a good alternative in the meantime.

EDIT: There's a simpler work-around. When you need to choose a table, assign the Sixaxis controller to '1'. And when you're playing, assign the Sixaxis controller to '2' (or probably any other number than '1'), this will assign controller 1 to the LogiTech controller.

 

[brakel]

Did anyone ever think of modifying the controller itself? Would it be possible to modify the PS3 controller's L1 and R1 buttons (is there a dual-stage microswitch behind them that can be replace by a single-stage?) So with a single click it would appear to the PS3 that someone just pressed it all the way down?

I'm of the age of "auto rapid fire" joysticks so perhaps we can bring back some of the 1980s fun to the 2010s.

Edit: or does anyone reading this have one of these adapters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwtCh-nf70c and play it with a DualShock 2 ?

Edit2: I just tried playing with my Logitech Wireless RumblePad 2 for PC (which is almost identical to my PS2 controller) and guess what? It works! There is an issue with the left side of the controller, so it's hard to pick a table, but once you are on e.g. Twilight Zone, the two-stage flipper problem is GONE!

The PS3's L1/R1 buttons are not two stage but are actually analog. They send information based on how hard you are pressing them. It might be even better if they added a sensitivity setting rather than just the ability to turn it off. One problem is that the current two stage flipper setup does not really simulate a real stacked leaf switches setup on a real pinball machine. It is really hard to get the press just right in real life to just trigger the lower flipper. In TPA with just a little practice you can perform this flipper trick with ease. If the sensitivity was set more realistically then those of you that don't like it wouldn't even notice just as people who don't do it on real tables don't notice.

 

[Quartrez]

In TPA with just a little practice you can perform this flipper trick with ease.

I'm sorry, but the first time I played the game on PS3 I thought the upper flippers just didn't work. I don't see how you would require "practice" for that. All it requires you to do is press the L1/R1 buttons normally. The extra pressure needed to activate the upper flippers is the tricky part.

PS: The game is so much more enjoyable with the Logitech controller, it's almost ridiculous. I'm finally able to play Ripley's Believe it or Not! on PS3 with the upper flipper being reliable.

 

[ER777]

The game is so much more enjoyable with the Logitech controller, it's almost ridiculous. I'm finally able to play Ripley's Believe it or Not! on PS3 with the upper flipper being reliable.

I don't have any problems while using L2-R2 on the DS3, its pretty easy to get used to the trigger point for the upper flippers with them. Like Brakel said, its maybe a little too easy. I still agree that an option to turn the two-stage effect off would be nice - especially if that was implemented as a sensitivity setting like Zen's. That would allow people to configure it to be like real machines if they wanted, or be completely disabled, or to be just like they are now..

BTW - Please fix your post a couple spots up, you've got my id in your quote rather than Byte somehow.

 

[Quartrez]

I don't have any problems while using L2-R2 on the DS3, its pretty easy to get used to the trigger point for the upper flippers with them.

Maybe it's just me, but it just feels like the triggers don't allow for as much precision as the buttons do. Because with buttons, it's on/off, there's no ambiguity. With the triggers, because of the dead zone, and the fact that you have to release the trigger all the way to deactivate flippers, it just feels imprecise. Again, maybe that's just me.

In any case, I've got my personal fix for now (the LogiTech controller), and I'm quite happy with it. Just had a game of RBION, I like that table a lot.

BTW - Please fix your post a couple spots up, you've got my id in your quote rather than Byte somehow.

Yeah, that was weird. Fixed.

 

[brakel]

I'm sorry, but the first time I played the game on PS3 I thought the upper flippers just didn't work. I don't see how you would require "practice" for that. All it requires you to do is press the L1/R1 buttons normally. The extra pressure needed to activate the upper flippers is the tricky part.

PS: The game is so much more enjoyable with the Logitech controller, it's almost ridiculous. I'm finally able to play Ripley's Believe it or Not! on PS3 with the upper flipper being reliable.

My point was that using two stage flippers on TPA is much easier than in real life. Your experience is not everyone's. Not everyone has a light touch on the buttons. I didn't even notice that two stage flippers were added to TPA until someone pointed it out here. Even my daughter and wife didn't notice. It was taking in the variety of experiences that led me to suggest a variable sensitivity rather than just on or off.

 

[ER777]

Maybe it's just me, but it just feels like the triggers don't allow for as much precision as the buttons do. Because with buttons, it's on/off, there's no ambiguity. With the triggers, because of the dead zone, and the fact that you have to release the trigger all the way to deactivate flippers, it just feels imprecise. Again, maybe that's just me.

In any case, I've got my personal fix for now (the LogiTech controller), and I'm quite happy with it. Just had a game of RBION, I like that table a lot.


Yeah, that was weird. Fixed.

Thanks for fixing that. I understand your preference for the buttons, but the triggers really operate mostly the same way except on a wider scale of motion. Its really just a matter of what's comfortable. Once you know the activation point in the trigger's range of motion its easy to be precise with.

 

[Squid]

I'm so glad that I have a heavy trigger pull. Unresponsive upper flippers has never been an issue for me. I hardly ever flub a shot from the upper flipper on Ripley's.