Pinball FX to offer a subscription model and micro transactions.

pinballmonster

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Sep 9, 2021
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I'm obviously a customer and therefore immediately sympathetic but you can only cry "the sky is falling" so many times before your credibility becomes suspect.

1. the sub-title is clearly wrong: you don't "have to" repurchase their tables

2. additionally, you don't "have to" repurchase ALL of their tables. As a matter of fact, you don't have to buy a single table, much less all of them.

Zen is in no way shape or form engaging in coercion, nor do they "force" anyone to buy all of their tables or even a single table for that matter.

They ARE offering multiple free tables each day yet for some reason this fact is buried halfway through the article. The article could just as well have made this tidbit the story's headline: free pinball indefinitely!

3. The quoted $150 price tag is misleading. There is a 20% discount if you spend $100 worth of tickets, and an additional 33% off the first week for all new titles.

As far as zen's previous customers' criticisms, they all acknowledge that many if not all other gaming companies are engaging in exactly the same behavior that zen is. They say they want zen to fail to teach them a lesson, but if the ticket system is their target of attack, they must want THE ENTIRE GAMING INDUSTRY TO FAIL if every company uses this system.

How does the complete and utter collapse of the gaming industry benefit gamers?!? How does the collapse of zen benefit virtual pinball fans?!?

The article is extremely misleading, probably deliberately so. The lack of facts, the lack of logic, the hyper emotionalism make gamers look utterly ridiculous.
 

1adam12

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Nov 28, 2017
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I have to agree. Those are very good observations. I did not see that slant when I read it. You are %100 correct that no one HAS to repurchase the tables. I’m guessing it will be optional with improved graphics or something.

It sounds like they’re using the mobile model for table purchase. Is that accurate?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Pinballwiz45b

Active member
Aug 12, 2012
3,638
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It sounds like they’re using the mobile model for table purchase. Is that accurate?

Not quite. With mobile, you have to purchase Zen coins first before purchasing the following:

* Limited time table offers (4-stars + bonus). Zen Club exclusives are cheaper than the 800 coin bundle.

* 4-star upgrade (100 coins, cheapest if you grind it out)

* Zen tickets (1-3 star upgrades + league play + some challenges)

* Table Parts (needed for any upgrade)

* Additional features (enhancements, pro difficulty, pro physics, bonus challenge)

* Cosmetics.

Williams mobile is worse. Pinball FX only deals with tickets before going directly to tables, whereas on mobile, it's a lot more convoluted of a system to upgrading tables.
 

timxtr

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Jan 28, 2015
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Is this absolutely moronic poop show pay scheme coming to console too? When? Where's the console info?
 

pinballmonster

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Sep 9, 2021
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In one of the Uber-long complaint threads, a Redditor mentions that seemingly all of the game studios are charging more and more and engaging in "anti-consumer" practices.

The underlying subtext no one seems to be mentioning is how addicted gamers are to these video games. The only solution for these people is to develop real world interests. My understanding is that many gamers don't do anything in their free time aside from play video games.

Many of them work in front of a screen only to go home to stare at a screen. Is there a problem with game studio pricing? Could be. But there is DEFINITELY a problem with gamers' inability to pull themselves away from screens.

Spending 8, 12, 16 hours a day in front of a screen has to take a toll, physically and emotionally. Problems like obesity, social isolation, declining social skills are among the most obvious.
 
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Firefox2000

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Apr 18, 2013
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PBA tried this on the Oculus rift store with the VR version of Stern Pinball, but they used silver and gold bars and also tokens that you could either buy with real money to play the tables, or grind your life away to earn them, and i was not a fan of either of those options, but thankfully they added the abilty to just buy the tables outright, now i personally just bought the tables outright because the grind was just mind numbing in how long it would have taken you to get enough to buy out one table, we are taking months to get enough to buy one table assuming if you played a couple of hours a day and actually hit the goals and XP, horrible, just horrible. lol

Of course i mean't to add this game is exclusive to the epic store, so it won't be on Steam for at least a year, and i have no idea about consoles, so who knows what will happen during that 12 months exclusive. ha
 
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Lykaion23

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Apr 8, 2014
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The console release is in summer Zen wrote months ago.

And yes it will be the same Ticket thing, but I don`t know why people complaining, so or so the people also bought the third version of same games in full price. My most complain is that people today in every interest think they need to get everything for free. I don`t know how people here earn there money, but if there company is like charity and give everything for free then they don`t work very long there anymore before the doors close of bankrupcy. Plus you want your salery and at the moment every prices is raising plus saleries. So it is normal that prices also at Zen raise. That the gave last time tables for free was the first that they could have done, cause now people think it is a must.

Did you ever get in all your games a free upgrade to new platform, new engine and so on? Except from a few MMOs that can shut down without giving you back your investments, People also don`t now the difference between Crossbuy and Crossplay. NO Game you ever purchased was free on all the other platforms you also earn. You need to pay there also.
 

Iga_Biva

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Oct 10, 2018
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I don't think that complaints are only because of pricing but for this horrible system with Tickets. I cannot find anyone (except maybe for few usual Zen advocates) that thinks that this was good idea.

If they just announced that prices per table in PinballFX is 4,5$ (or €) and more, it would be much easier to swallow. Yes, there would still be complaints but I am sure that backfire would not be so strong. Now are comments about Zen overly negative which is a shame as end product is very good.
 

Lykaion23

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Apr 8, 2014
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I can go with you that the ticket System is stupid, but it is a step a lot have gone and after been bought by Embracer group it is a sad but obvious move. ZEN is not a one party group anymore, they are part of higher groups.

How the Quality of the product is I don't know yet, I wanted to look on the dark side and into epic, but it is 1:15pm in europe now and no release yet.

If it is only the ticket Systems then why I read on reddit, Twitter, FB only that zen should give all for free and that crossplatform to show there care for customers. Sry but this people should go to groccery store and tell them they should give all products for free to show people that they care.

For me and it isn't only zen it is like i wrote in multiple areas right now, people complain that they need to pay for something and don't get for free.

I'm also not happy with the ticket and price structure but that is why I decided that I don't buy on any platform. Plus that I look which table is worse the money.

How should Zen know so or so what table you are earning and if you are on multiple platforms should the give you more then people only own tables on one platform questions over questions, but only if you look over the table of your small space. Zen Pinball is not only PC or only Cabinet, or VR or Mobile or Consoles it is all together and it should be fair for anybody.

Zen should go away with this Limit 33% for one week, cause if you are interested and maybe on vacation then you got penalty cause you miss the sale, but we are talking about zen there will be other sales also.
 
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Narc0lep5y

Member
Feb 21, 2015
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The ticket thing is a scam but the responses that Mel has put up about it being the way they can charge for single tables instead of packs is ludicrous and he's rightly called out for it.

It's also a distraction from the fact that this is for a game in EARLY ACCESS. Which means premium pricing for an incomplete game. Sure, Pinball Royale and cabinet mode is missing but what else? I'm sure it's not just missing all the previous tables, but game adjustments, balancing and other features. But hey, we'll give you a 33% discount to help us balance those tables on our unfinished game. Or we'll let you pay us $100 for a year subscription with the promises of added value down the line, but we might not even have the game done in a year either. Just wait until they change course and turn all of those purchases people made into a "these were a contribution to game development because you bough in early access" argument.

The whole thing is shady. It's just feels wrong, and for so many to sniff it out should be a huge red flag to Zen. It's your money and spend it how you choose, but buyer beware.

edit - also, it's a good thing it's not on Steam because user reviews would almost certainly crush them, like they do for the other companies that pull this shady stuff. Conveniently, the EGS doesn't have user reviews.
 
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Lykaion23

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Apr 8, 2014
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Okay you are all right lets keep our pichforks and burn down Zen cause " they stole our pinball machines"

I thought there would be a few people outside of Streets of Rage but okay showed me that I stay like always shaking my head about the blind hatred and keep silent.

I hope that people find some new hobbies or doings in there life that are free and *legal*, cause there will be not much left.

Life long and prosper
 

Crawley

New member
Mar 25, 2013
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I thought there would be a few people outside of Streets of Rage but okay showed me that I stay like always shaking my head about the blind hatred and keep silent.

I'm betting its the minority that are behaving like morally outraged drama queens. And I'm also betting a fair number will download Pinball FX and at some point buy tables despite all the faux outrage.

The digital pinball community has had these complaint personality types since this forum started with Pinball Arcade. And that game lasted 5-6 years. Zen will be fine.

I'm just gonna continuing buying what I want and enjoy playing them.
 

pinballmonster

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Sep 9, 2021
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Someone on steam mentioned an important fact: even if zen ticks off 99 or even 100% of their potential customer base, as long as some significant minority, whether it's 3, 5, or 7%, buys in, zen will still make a lot of money.

I am quite certain that the buy-in percentage will be relatively high, probably significantly higher than for FX3. Social isolation is much higher, media and screen addiction continue to ramp up unabated, and as long as the customer base remains engaged talking about the product rather than ignoring it, even if the comments are overwhelmingly negative, that's all still a good sign for zen's algorithms in terms of sheer volume.

Remember, Mel is no longer in charge. Zen is part of multiple conglomerates, embracer and epic and both are going to try to squeeze customers for every penny we've got. Blaming Mel or anyone else within zen on a personal level at this point is pointless.
 

Lykaion23

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Apr 8, 2014
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I can tell now from experience first that the tables are unpurchableat the moment cause of ingame error and that it seems that indy and ticket prices also got a discount, but I only know from Europe epic there the price is 80€ for 1200 Tickets that is the near value if you purchase every table
 

Firefox2000

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Apr 18, 2013
262
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Okay you are all right lets keep our pichforks and burn down Zen cause " they stole our pinball machines"

I thought there would be a few people outside of Streets of Rage but okay showed me that I stay like always shaking my head about the blind hatred and keep silent.

I hope that people find some new hobbies or doings in there life that are free and *legal*, cause there will be not much left.

Life long and prosper

You do see the irony of complaning about people complaining........right? lol
 

wilbers

Member
Aug 8, 2018
569
0
Mel answered some questions on the FX discord last night (username Zen_mel). Most relevant answer to this thread copied below; if they are successful in getting cross-platform agreements then the tickets make a lot more sense.

"We are in the very early days. As more features roll out I think it will make more sense.
I understand that extra ticket balances are unwanted, and we have a tool that will fix that, it was not ready for today and we didn't want to push 2 weeks... 2 weeks... etc.
Our endgame is also pretty ambitious, and I think it will be a reality with where the industry is going. We can see Microsoft, Epic, Valve pushing for the ideas we support for cross-buy cross-platform.
Now that the games entitlements are served from Zen, this will be possible in the future."
 

Firefox2000

New member
Apr 18, 2013
262
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Someone on steam mentioned an important fact: even if zen ticks off 99 or even 100% of their potential customer base, as long as some significant minority, whether it's 3, 5, or 7%, buys in, zen will still make a lot of money.

I am quite certain that the buy-in percentage will be relatively high, probably significantly higher than for FX3. Social isolation is much higher, media and screen addiction continue to ramp up unabated, and as long as the customer base remains engaged talking about the product rather than ignoring it, even if the comments are overwhelmingly negative, that's all still a good sign for zen's algorithms in terms of sheer volume.

Remember, Mel is no longer in charge. Zen is part of multiple conglomerates, embracer and epic and both are going to try to squeeze customers for every penny we've got. Blaming Mel or anyone else within zen on a personal level at this point is pointless.

Well they already made cash from going exclusive to the Epic for 12 months, so all that remains to be seen now is that in 12 months will that deal have helped the game grow or will it have killed the game out of the starting gate, we will know in 12 momths time. ha
 

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