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Is it ever not?
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Welcome Back to Digital Pinball Fans - please read this first
Popeye Saves The Earth isn't that bad!
- Thread starter Captain B. Zarre
- Start date
Is it ever not?
Captain B. Zarre
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- Apr 16, 2013
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adams fmily
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David Pannozzo
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Popeye is one of my favorite Barry oursler and Python Anghelo designed tables, Python also worked on the art on this Pinball Machine. I also just wanted to say Rest In Peace Python Anghelo. http://youtu.be/rHehj0WxofY
Rudy Yagov
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- Mar 30, 2012
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Popeye isn't a bad machine at all though. It's widebody for no reason and has a lot of empty space, but it's pretty decent overall.
It's got a 7.3 on ipdb, so it's not even particularly low rated.
DokkenRokken
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- Apr 7, 2014
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This is the 10th comment this week I've seen about how bad the Facebook page is. If it's so bad, why do people keep visiting it, only to just complain about it? That doesn't make any sense.
On topic, a local sandwich shop has this table, but it's broke down. From the looks of it, it sure doesn't look very fun. I really don't like the table art at all.
Espy
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- Sep 9, 2013
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I don't visit it. I stopped a long time ago. Hence why I complain about it.
Captain B. Zarre
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Also of note is that this is the final machine Python created for Williams / Bally. It's also a Bally machine so we might be getting this soon.
Rudy Yagov
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Zombie Aladdin
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To jump on the bandwagon. If people see there are a lot of negative remarks on something, it will shape the opinions of passersby too. Humans are social animals. It may also just have a memetic status among visitors to this Facebook page, wherever it is: The hate gets famous among people, and it inspires them to hate on it too. Most likely, it got started on the premise, as a fully functioning complex modern-era pinball machine called Popeye Saves the Earth sounds ridiculous and that it combines the clashing themes of Popeye with environmental conservation. (Imagine if Stern releases a machine called Jerry Seinfeld Defends Atlantis or Hamlet Goes to Mars. Would any operator actually want it?) In other words, people are just finding it fun to hate on something, and most of these guys probably have never played it.
I've seen the former happen to The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword: It is not a bad game at all, but it has a lot of flaws to it with massive gameplay and stage structure, and Zelda fans get pretty vocal if a game in the series comes out with something they don't like. The Twilight books are a good example of the latter--or anything teenage girls tend to like for that matter. The fact that Stephanie Meyer got so rich off of these books indicates she's doing at least something right, but the hate directed towards the books, the movies, and her (including the fact that the actor who plays Edward in the movies dislikes the books and hates being called Edward Cullen in real life) would make it seem like it was written by a 12-year-old on the margins of her note-taking papers. (Meyer is actually a well-read person and has a degree in literature.)
Incidentally, when something becomes memetically bad, its price goes WAY up. Action 52 is now one of the most expensive video games in the collectors' market solely for this reason. According to the 9th edition of The Pinball Price Guide (covers up to 2012 and published in 2013), Popeye Saves the Earth is comparable to other pinball machines made in the mid-90s in price, so this reputation on Facebook appears to be confined there. Kind of like how the hate for Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy seems mostly confined to the Internet Movie Database.
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soundwave106
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I personally avoid huge amounts of Facebook these days. The heavy users either seem to be the most testy, whiny, complaining type of people, or post lots of useless clickbait time wasters. (I'd rather waste my time playing pinball.
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Shaneus
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- Mar 26, 2012
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Barry Oursler was the lead on a few tables, but the more I think about it, I'm not sure he was that creative or groundbreaking in terms of designing tables. I'd even go so far as to say any table he and Python worked on, the latter would've had more influence on how the table looked and played. But that's just (probably unpopular) opinion.
I have further opinions on other designers where the vast majority of "big names" aren't all they're cracked up to be, perhaps I'll write a thesis on it and post it here
Rudy Yagov
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Barry Oursler was the lead on a few tables, but the more I think about it, I'm not sure he was that creative or groundbreaking in terms of designing tables. I'd even go so far as to say any table he and Python worked on, the latter would've had more influence on how the table looked and played. But that's just (probably unpopular) opinion.
I have further opinions on other designers where the vast majority of "big names" aren't all they're cracked up to be, perhaps I'll write a thesis on it and post it here
No disrespect to Python, but I really feel like people give him way too much credit. I've even seen people credit him with games like Bad Cats and Cyclone, which he only did the art on (both were Barry Oursler's designs, by the way).
While I do agree that any game that Python helped design probably wouldn't be the same without him, I also think it's a two-way street. Without guys like Barry Oursler and Mark Ritchie (Taxi, Big Guns), those games probably wouldn't exist at all.
Python was good at coming up with ideas and implementing themes, but as far as actual game design goes, I'd say the games he did with Oursler and Mark Ritchie were definitely not dominated by his influence. Pin*Bot might have been his idea, but when it comes to the game itself, Oursler was definitely just as important in that game's creation. If you look at Jack*Bot, you'll notice that Python isn't credited at all, despite that game having the exact same playfield design as Pin*Bot. Oursler and software guru Larry DeMarr are the credited designers.
Long story short, Barry Oursler is underrated and it pisses me off when people don't give him the recognition he deserves.
Bowflex
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- Feb 21, 2012
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Oursler is WAAAAAY underrated. He goes back further than Ritchie, lawlor, nordman, etc and has some major games under his belt that he designed both in terms of innovation and also great design.
Pin bot, jack bot, dr who, Dracula, whodunnit, Gorgar, space shuttle and station, the Williams roller coaster trilogy, fire!, Dirty Harry, joust, junk yard and many others. That body of work stands up against any other pinball designer. What an awesome career and so many great contributions to the game we all love.
Shaneus
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I wouldn't have said he's underrated. My point on Python wasn't that the games wouldn't have been made without him or had similar layouts, more that they would've likely been missing a certain X-factor. Oursler could design a hell of a machine, but he never struck me as the sort of guy that could be uber-creative with a theme. Which explains why he and Python made so many great titles together.
Not a big fan of Dr. Who, though. Whilst I'm not much of a fan of the franchise either way, the game itself is kinda bland and boring. Even played it again today on location and tried to love it, but just can't
BTW Oursler actually started after Steve Ritchie. Ritchie's first game was Airborne Avenger for Atari, Oursler's Phoenix was a year later (Neither were particularly good though, ahaha)
Not a big fan of Dr. Who, though. Whilst I'm not much of a fan of the franchise either way, the game itself is kinda bland and boring. Even played it again today on location and tried to love it, but just can't
BTW Oursler actually started after Steve Ritchie. Ritchie's first game was Airborne Avenger for Atari, Oursler's Phoenix was a year later
(Neither were particularly good though, ahaha)
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What are the actual criticisms and complaints that make this notorious for being one of the worst?
I have never played it, I just want to know -why- it has such a bad rap, as I'm interested.
Personally I think it looks cool going by the youtube videos I've seen.
I have never played it, I just want to know -why- it has such a bad rap, as I'm interested.
Personally I think it looks cool going by the youtube videos I've seen.
soundwave106
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- Nov 6, 2013
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I've never played it personally, but from browsing rec.games.pinball from the wreckage that Google made of the Deja Usenet archive, it seems one of the common themes of this game is *broken*. This pinball seems to have had a nasty tendency to break a lot and break often.
Apart from that, there are complaints about confusing rule flow and layout and the like (which happens in some of Oursler's pins too). My "first impression" of all of this is that it was a combination of a lot of things: a tendency to break often, a theme that might have annoyed some (cartoons, "tree hugging"), and a deep ruleset that requires some time (and a working pin) to understand. Plus, the competing Bally/WMS pins were of high quality. If you are an operator, would you choose Popeye over World Cup Soccer, Demolition Man, Indiana Jones, or Star Trek TNG?
My guess is: it was underrated back in those days, I think.
Zombie Aladdin
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I wonder if that means Popeye Saves the Earth would've been popular in its own time in Los Angeles, considering cartoons and "Tree hugging" are both popular around here, the former because of the presence of Hollywood, Burbank, and Glenadale meaning there are a lot of animation fans living here (I myself am an animation fan and would love to play Popeye Saves the Earth), and California is a decidedly liberal state, and anything with themes of environmental preservation has a good chance of catching on (which is very good).