re-themeing some of the best pins that are impossible to get licencing, good or bad?

[Pete]

What with work on the table far underway during the kickstarter for T2 it's interesting to think what might have happened if the kickstarter had failed (which it thankfully didn't). Imagine having a fully made table without the rights to sell it. The only way to go around that and make some of that work count would be to reskin and mod the whole table into some sort of mad magazine style parody of the original table. Robotnater 2000 3d, or Robo-Assassinator the pinball game, or some other hilarious name. Addams Family is such a great table that even if that kickstarter failed for it(which hopefully won't happen), I'd love to see the guys at farsight try and re-theme it into something original and put it out just to have that same playfield gameplay.

 

[Rudy]

It'd be pointless, part of the reason that so many people have a personal connection to such tables is the theme, and stripping the themes out of tables will remove that connection. Just look at The Shadow and Pinball FX's Tesla: they're basically the same table but the theme sucks the life out of the table.

Addams Family may look like it could be easily rethemed, but considering that the sound effects, dmd videos and playfield would have to be significatly changed it'd end up being more complicated than just working on a different table. Add that all of those modifications would require graphics design artists to design things for the first time (hint: recreating a table is a lot easier than creating a table) and would create a lot more problems than it'd solve.

Would Farsight need to hire more developers, or would they just get the current team to do another project (possibly compromising the time spent on other tables)? Would they spend a lot of time on creating a theme or would it just be an afterthought? Would the finished result produce as much profit as say, reproducing an old Gottlieb table? etc.

 

[sotie]

retheme = fail.

There are so many great pinball tables. If something isn't possible there are always many more recreations to be made rather than resorting to a retheme.

 

[Bowflex]

This was common in the 70's by the manufacturers. However those tables didn't have toys, dnd visuals or voice/music. I suppose it could be done To go an entirely different direction but minor adjustments around the theme and keeping most parts the same reeks of cheesiness and feels like a cheap rip off. I'd rather try just cut out a picture or remove a song (like they already have) to produce the table.

 

[Pinballfan69]

Just look at The Shadow and Pinball FX's Tesla: they're basically the same table but the theme sucks the life out of the table.

I honestly don't see it as the same table. In Tesla The top playfield is magnetized and you hit drop tragets before you're able to start/change the modes. You have to hit the scoop a couple of time in order to hit the targets in front of the bumpers then you are able to lock your balls. It's quite different I'm sure. The strategies are completely different.

 

[smbhax]

It'd be pointless

Not to mention quickly slapped with a lawsuit, I would think.

 

[Captain B. Zarre]

What if we re theme pins with bad artwork? Raven, for instance. It's a very fast, flow game that was designed by John Trudeau. Bad news, the art is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE on it.

 

[Nightwing]

This was common in the 70's by the manufacturers. However those tables didn't have toys, dnd visuals or voice/music. I suppose it could be done To go an entirely different direction but minor adjustments around the theme and keeping most parts the same reeks of cheesiness and feels like a cheap rip off. I'd rather try just cut out a picture or remove a song (like they already have) to produce the table.

If you are re theming tables,making it a pin that doesn't exist in the real world...then it doesn't belong in TPA,IMO. For better or worse,the theme of a pinball table is part of the charm about it.

Besides,I would think it would take way too much time and effort to rework any later tables that use a DMD,because you'd have to re theme that as well. Most of the licensed tables that people want are those anyways...

 

[Mayuh]

What if we re theme pins with bad artwork? Raven, for instance. It's a very fast, flow game that was designed by John Trudeau. Bad news, the art is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE on it.

I'm working on redesigning my DM. It's the fugliest artwork I've ever seen. But it plays brilliant I tried with blue led flashers (adds at least to the police theme with its already red lights) and some color changing LEDs for the white inserts. I rather paint it black and redo the artwork with uv active colors (some hand drawn line/brush style) - but that'll be a year worth of work
https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A25qXGF1gHg6x

 

[McGuirk]

That would be pretty tough. I already feel bad when I buy a store brand product, and the packaging looks very much like the big brand's product.

 

[Man-Machine]

Bad idea.

 

[Fungi]

This is what Zen was doing with their first set of tables. "Extreme" was a kinda "BK2K", "Agents" was a kinda "STTNG", "Buccaneer" was a kinda "place Pat Lawlor table name here", and "Rocky and Bullwinkle" was a kinda sorta "Sorcerer".

 

[WesReviews]

I am 150% against re-theming tables. Hoping it's not even considered by Pinball Arcade.

 

[Man-Machine]

TPA is about preserving pinball history. You can't falsify history.

 

[Sinistar]

TPA is about preserving pinball history. You can't falsify history.

This guy "gets it" it's not about giving and selling the most popular Pinball tables it's about preserving what is becoming a lost art in American Culture. If they can't get a license there is no backdoor plan B , they just wont do it.

 

[Mark W**a]

Absolutely in favor.

Demolition Man, Johnny Mnuemonic, and Shadow are all freaking amazing games based on very lame properties.

And what really sucks about these box office bombs like Mnuemonic is its attached to Keaunu Reeves who you know is not going to be cheap to get.

I say absolutely reskin that one, and release it towards the end of pinball arcade's life, in the "fantasy tables" section, along with whatever original creations Farsight does (Farsight has talked about this).

If you ask me this is the only way you'll ever see JN, DM, or Shadow since they would all three fail a kick starter. So I ask you; would you rather have a reskin, or not have the game at all? Is a picture of Alec Baldwin really a piece of priceless pinball art? Lol no. I'd rather they cut his likeness completely out rather than pay that ******* 1 dime for its use. You'd be doing pinball a great service since that back glass is considered one of the ugliest of all time.

Now Addams Family? No. But again, if They can't get Raul Julia on board, then an imposter and slightly altered art is better than no Addams family at all.

 

[Mark W**a]

This guy "gets it" it's not about giving and selling the most popular Pinball tables it's about preserving what is becoming a lost art in American Culture. If they can't get a license there is no backdoor plan B , they just wont do it.

I don't really buy in to the whole preserving pinball mantra.

To me this is more about the following: reintroducing pinball to a new generation. Letting them play the best designed tables, from the legendary designers. Rather than the mediocre fantasy offerings of Zen or the amateurish designs of "other" fantasy pinball games (most that are free or cost a dollar).

To me it's a game for pinball fans that can't afford 5-7-10 thousand dollar machines. And it's a great way for up and coming pinball enthusiasts to learn the rules of the games for tournament play.

I absolutely believe in preserving the machines 100% in their original forms, even down to questionable subject matter or bad art. However, when the situation arises where the property is too expensive or the licensees can't be bargained with (Raul Julia estate) then I'm of the mindset that slightly altered artwork/sound is better than not getting the table at all.

The whole preserving pinball thing is kinda silly. If it was about preserving pinball, then they should be doing exclusively 50-60-70 year old machines that are rare. "Preserving" Addams Family is a little silly since its the most produced machine of all time. And most of the machines they are doing are "only" 20- something years old, if that.

And as much as I think Farsight has a great physics engine, it's not as good as real life. Or even really that close tbh. After playing Terminator it really hit me how far off they really are. Tbqh, it plays nothing like the real machine, which is the first time I have extensive experience with a real table that Farsight has recreated.

So if you're into "preserving pinball", you're better off donating to a museum or papa. I feel pinball arcade is more about making pinball popular again and I think it's succeeding.

 

[sotie]

Absolutely in favor.

So I ask you; would you rather have a reskin, or not have the game at all?

Not at all. I'd rather just get a different table, it's not like there is a shortage of tables to be recreated.

 

[Ark Malmeida]

Yeah, I'm definitely not a fan of intentionally replacing/removing things from a table. I want it to be as close to an exact replica as possible.

 

[Pete]

I would of course rather real recreations of actual pinball tables over anything else. And I know lot's of work is involved in having to modify the art (well the art part is pretty easy), DMD animations and swapping the sounds. But let's just say the gameplay on a table is so good that it doesn't even matter what characters are on it. Sure it may not have that nostalgic feel but it would still be fun to play if you could suspend disbelief and pretend it was one of the pins you never got to try in real life. I remember a topic in here that was like if you could see new pinball properties made what would you like to see, and people were saying TV shows and Movies names. All I'm saying is if farsight can't get the rights to a table that has the most amazingly fun playability than why not just crank out a total conversion. In real life Family Guy is the same exact table as Shrek, some people prefer Shrek and allot of others prefer Family Guy. To me Addams Family is the ultimate table in terms of playability, It's not my favorite intellectual property but i do like the theme. I would definitely prefer the actual table but if for some reason that can not be done and no hope exists for a table like that, I really wouldn't care if they slapped images of all the members of the farsight crew all over the table and called it something like "Farsight Pinball" with sounds of them saying funny phrases and mostly recycled animations from other table's on the DMD.