Several questions regarding Jack*Bot and Safe Cracker

[The-Man-In-Black]

EDIT: JackBot questions answered. I wasted a couple of hours of my time because I'm a moron. But my safe cracker issues below still stand:

Regarding Safe Cracker:

It's my understanding that the magic token dispenser is supposed to mimic the token dispensers from the live tables. Per another post on this forum, the drop rate for that top silver token is supposed to be 2/400. The more tokens you earn without quitting or resetting the game, the more your odds increase. Winning 1 token adjusts the rate to 2/399, winning 2 brings it to 2/398, etc. Does leaving the table or resetting the game reset the token dispenser odds to 2/400 as well, or does the improved drop rate (2/400-tokens already earned) persist from session to session?

Has anybody confirmed that the wizard goal will actually trigger once you do manage to collect all 26 tokens? And what about what happens if the token is earned during Vault Multiball? Several other tables are glitched in such a way that wizard goals do not trigger if they're earned during multiball (such as Advancing to Marshall on Cactus Canyon). Given all the work involved in this token (and the fact that the collection is permanent), it would suck to be permanently locked out of this trophy because you earned the last token during Vault Multiball.

And finally.....have the people who thought that this 26 token wizard goal was a good idea been brought behind the building and flogged repeatedly with a large dead trout?

 

[Gorgar]

It has been awhile since I have played jackpot, but I don't remember having any trouble with the cheating thing. I don't even 100% remember what you have to do, but if I remember correctly, you mash on it when the slot machine is going.

The issue with Safecracker is I'm quite sure the odds don't increase if you keep getting tokens without restarting the game. If I am wrong on this, someone please correct me so that I can change my strategy.

It isn't the rom that decides which token you get, but Farsight's programming, which means it shouldn't matter if you get the final token during vault multiball. The reason why other tables don't award certain goals during multiball is because the game looks for either a specific DMD animation or sound sample to detect it, which are often different/shorter versions in multiball. Since earning tokens has nothing to do with the rom, there shouldn't be any issue detecting it. But you are still just as likely to win the lottery as you are getting this goal.

A side note with Safecracker. Since my progress has been erased, I have recovered 17 of the 26 tokens. I calculated that I should have just under a 1 in 3 chance of getting a new one, yet I have had over 30 consecutive duplicates. And I remember during my first run that tokens were just as scarce. I think there is something wrong with the token system and it should be looked into.

 

[The-Man-In-Black]

It has been awhile since I have played jackpot, but I don't remember having any trouble with the cheating thing. I don't even 100% remember what you have to do, but if I remember correctly, you mash on it when the slot machine is going.

This is what I've been doing and I haven't gotten the cheat to activate a single time. How long ago did you play it and are you playing on a PS4?

The issue with Safecracker is I'm quite sure the odds don't increase if you keep getting tokens without restarting the game. If I am wrong on this, someone please correct me so that I can change my strategy.

If this is true, it actually makes the issue exponentially worse. This means that no matter what you do, you'd have a .5% chance of earning that token at best.

It isn't the rom that decides which token you get, but Farsight's programming, which means it shouldn't matter if you get the final token during vault multiball. The reason why other tables don't award certain goals during multiball is because the game looks for either a specific DMD animation or sound sample to detect it, which are often different/shorter versions in multiball. Since earning tokens has nothing to do with the rom, there shouldn't be any issue detecting it. But you are still just as likely to win the lottery as you are getting this goal.

Well at least that's good to know, I guess.

A side note with Safecracker. Since my progress has been erased, I have recovered 17 of the 26 tokens. I calculated that I should have just under a 1 in 3 chance of getting a new one, yet I have had over 30 consecutive duplicates. And I remember during my first run that tokens were just as scarce. I think there is something wrong with the token system and it should be looked into.

How/when did your progress get erased? How many did you have before?

And I'm in the same boat as you. I've got 19/26 tokens. I burned out all my credits playing AOTV. I've now earned 37 consecutive duplicates and counting.

 

[Gorgar]

I played Jackbot on PS4 when it first came out for that platform. I don't think I really played it since I got all of the wizard goals shortly after since it isn't one of my favorites.

There was a bug with an update in January (version 1.20 I think) that erased all local high scores and Safecracker tokens. The bug was fixed in the next update 1.21 and I was able to restore my local high scores by loading an older save, but the Safecracker tokens were still gone. I actually had 25 of 26, and a total of over 800. I think I got number 25 sometime between 400 and 500 tokens. Since I restarted, I have just under 100 total and 17 of 26. I wasn't really too upset because I know how f'n rare that silver token and getting them all over again will make it less boring and motivate me to play more. I'm already starting to get lots of duplicates and losin interest again however

 

[The-Man-In-Black]

Ok, so that begs the question.....can we even confirm that the 26th token is even obtainable on the PS4?

http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/10445-Safecracker-Tokens?p=217294&viewfull=1#post217294

If that is what they went on when designing the way the game dispenses tokens, then either (a) you should've gotten the token twice over during your initial run, or (b) the dispenser is glitched and the token isn't dispensing at all.

Also, is your PSN ID Zoop25? If you don't want to answer that, don't. That's the only account that has earned the JackBot trophy on the PS4. I assume since you say you had all the Jackbot wizard goals that that's you.

 

[Gorgar]

The trophy for Safecracker is the only one that says 0.0% which means no one has it yet. But that doesn't confirm whether it is impossible or not.

 

[The-Man-In-Black]

The trophy for Safecracker is the only one that says 0.0% which means no one has it yet. But that doesn't confirm whether it is impossible or not.

Right. But if you're going 800+ games and not getting it when it should have a drop rate of 2/400, that's a pretty strong indication that something is wrong.

There's also the outside chance that someone scored the token before the recent trophy patch and simply hasn't logged in to claim the trophy. (I didn't even know about the trophy patch until about 2 weeks ago.)

I just want to know (a) if anyone has scored the token on the PS4 yet, and (b) if it's not 2/400, what is the token's real drop rate supposed to be?

 

[PiN WiZ]

Regarding Jack*Bot, has anyone been able to successfully activate a cheat on the PS4? My understanding is that all you need to do is mash the X button when the "Extra Ball" button (ball launcher) starts flashing. As I understand it, the cheat is supposed to also work one out of every X times. (4, I think). However, no matter how many times I mash that X button, I cannot get a single one of the cheats to activate. I have tried hundreds of times, and often make 2-3 casino runs during a typical game, meaning I'm trying to activate the cheats for poker and the dice roll 4-6 or more times per game.

For the dice roll game, is it possible to roll a 12 via normal play, or is the cheat the only way to get a 12?

If you use the bumpers (L1/R1) for the flippers then you have to press R2 rapidly to activate a cheat and if you use the triggers (L2/R2) fir the flippers then you have to press R1 rapidly to activate a cheat.

 

[The-Man-In-Black]

If you use the bumpers (L1/R1) for the flippers then you have to press R2 rapidly to activate a cheat and if you use the triggers (L2/R2) fir the flippers then you have to press R1 rapidly to activate a cheat.

Well that solves that problem then. Now on to Safe Cracker.

God, I feel like an idiot.

 

[Tom Devaney]

So I checked out the code for the tokens. I'll just give some information about it. The chance of getting a silver token is .4% at first. But for every token you receive during your current session, it goes up (just like a real table). Once you quit the game or go back to the table menu, the coins will be randomized again, and you'll start over at .4%. So this is the equivalent of playing the table in real life, but everytime you leave, the owner scrambles all the coins and adds any coins you took. So it seems like you are wrong about the tokens [MENTION=259]Gorgar[/MENTION], and you will have to adjust your strategy. Hopefully the trophy goes from 0.00% to 0.01% soon now!

On a side note, how do you reply to multiple quotes in a single reply? I would just try the QUOTE thing, but it seems like a weird number has to be next to that as well.

 

[Citizen]

On a side note, how do you reply to multiple quotes in a single reply? I would just try the QUOTE thing, but it seems like a weird number has to be next to that as well.

Assuming you're on a normal browser, where it says "Reply/Reply With Quote/+", click the '+' option on for each post you want to quote, then once you've selected all the posts you want, hit "Reply With Quote" on the last one you selected. Each post will be quoted in the reply box, and you can fill in your responses.

Or the low tech way of doing it, just write your reply to one person and use copy/paste to transfer it to the next quick reply box, keep doing that until you've included everyone you wanted, then submit the post.

Another alternative is to copy the text you want to reply to, and use the '[ Quote] text [ / quote ]' forum code. You don't need the weird numbers, all those do is link the quote to a post, which really isn't necessary. If you want to make sure everyone knows who you're quoting, you can use '[ quote=username] text [ / quote ]'.

 

[Gorgar]

So I checked out the code for the tokens. I'll just give some information about it. The chance of getting a silver token is .4% at first. But for every token you receive during your current session, it goes up (just like a real table). Once you quit the game or go back to the table menu, the coins will be randomized again, and you'll start over at .4%. So this is the equivalent of playing the table in real life, but everytime you leave, the owner scrambles all the coins and adds any coins you took. So it seems like you are wrong about the tokens [MENTION=259]Gorgar[/MENTION], and you will have to adjust your strategy. Hopefully the trophy goes from 0.00% to 0.01% soon now!

On a side note, how do you reply to multiple quotes in a single reply? I would just try the QUOTE thing, but it seems like a weird number has to be next to that as well.

Awesome. I actually tried earning tokens without restarting last night. I got nothing new, but at least now I know that is the correct method.

New strategy: Once you get the hang of it, it is fairly easy to backhand the scoop from the left flipper and get a letter in VAULT, which will activate vault multiball when you win at the board game, guv No you a good chance to get three tokens instead of 1. Dedicate an entire weekend to Safecracker without turning off the game and hope your PS4 doesn't explode and this might (hopefully) be doable.

 

[The-Man-In-Black]

So I checked out the code for the tokens. I'll just give some information about it. The chance of getting a silver token is .4% at first. But for every token you receive during your current session, it goes up (just like a real table). Once you quit the game or go back to the table menu, the coins will be randomized again, and you'll start over at .4%. So this is the equivalent of playing the table in real life, but everytime you leave, the owner scrambles all the coins and adds any coins you took. So it seems like you are wrong about the tokens [MENTION=259]Gorgar[/MENTION], and you will have to adjust your strategy. Hopefully the trophy goes from 0.00% to 0.01% soon now!

On a side note, how do you reply to multiple quotes in a single reply? I would just try the QUOTE thing, but it seems like a weird number has to be next to that as well.

Would I be correct in assuming that if I were to earn 250 tokens without ever shutting off my PS4 or exiting the table that I would be guaranteed a token since the chance would then be 100%? Or is there an upper limit to the chance?

Also, is the upper level board game truly random? I typically try to take the shortest path to the vault entering through the front door and heading toward the northwest entrance, leaving me with only the dog, alarm, and vault gate as obstacles. Yet I run into the dog a disproportionately high amount of the time. Also, I have made it through the vault gate exactly twice after landing on it dozens of times, even though I should only have a 1 in 3 chance of hitting the locked gate and getting booted out of the game. I have also had several games where I successfully re-entered the vault after being chased by the dog, only for my next roll to land me on a vault alarm and boot me out anyway. I obviously expect things like these to happen sometimes, but they seem to happen a disproportionately high number of times, leaving me to believe it's similar to claw machines and other similar "skill" based games where the claw will simply be too weak to grab a prize if it's not time to pay out yet; In this case, if the game determines that there haven't been enough plays to pay out a token, the game will make sure you land on an obstacle one way or the other.

 

[Gorgar]

So by what percentage does it go up? .4% each time? That would assume that the "virtual tubes" for lack of a better way of putting it, would hold 250 coins. If the chance doesn't increase by .4%, what chance does it increase by?

Would I be correct in assuming that if I were to earn 250 tokens without ever shutting off my PS4 or exiting the table that I would be guaranteed a token since the chance would then be 100%? Or is there an upper limit to the chance?

Also, is the upper level board game truly random? I typically try to take the shortest path to the vault entering through the front door and heading toward the northwest entrance, leaving me with only the dog, alarm, and vault gate as obstacles. Yet I run into the dog a disproportionately high amount of the time. Also, I have made it through the vault gate exactly twice after landing on it dozens of times, even though I should only have a 1 in 3 chance of hitting the locked gate and getting booted out of the game. I have also had several games where I successfully re-entered the vault after being chased by the dog, only for my next roll to land me on a vault alarm and boot me out anyway. I obviously expect things like these to happen sometimes, but they seem to happen a disproportionately high number of times, leaving me to believe it's similar to claw machines and other similar "skill" based games where the claw will simply be too weak to grab a prize if it's not time to pay out yet; In this case, if the game determines that there haven't been enough plays to pay out a token, the game will make sure you land on an obstacle one way or the other.

The dog could be a good thing depending on how good you are at shooting the main entrance. Just cradle the ball with the left flipper and look at the lights going around the vault. When the light is directly across from where you want the piece to go, shoot. If it goes in, you pretty much selected your placement on the board for an easy token (but you can still get screwed by not having a vault key)

 

[The-Man-In-Black]

Oh, I know how to work the dog. My main point was saying that I seem to hit obstacles a suspiciously high percentage of the time despite only having 3 on the board more often than not, and making it past the vault door a suspiciously low amount of the time even though I should make it through 66% of the time, give or take. It seems like those "skill" games that really aren't skill but based off an algorithm that only allows a payout after X tries.

 

[vikingerik]

Farsight wouldn't know the answers to the board game questions, since that's ROM code not TPA code. I don't think anyone else knows either.

But if you want some help on the board game, read this thread. (If pausing works similarly enough on the PS4.)

 

[The-Man-In-Black]

Fair enough....but I'm still interested in knowing about the probabilities of the silver coin dropping. A .4% chance is 1 in 250. Assuming they went with the simplest method possible to emulate a real payout, your chances increase to 1 in 249 when you win a coin, 1 in 248 when you win 2, etc. etc. etc. until you reset the game. Am I correct in assuming that if you were to win 250 coins without exiting or resetting the game in any way, you would be guaranteed a full collection of 26 coins since the chances of winning a silver would be 100%, or did they program an upper limit to what the probability would increase to? If so, what is that upper limit?

 

[The-Man-In-Black]

Awesome. I actually tried earning tokens without restarting last night. I got nothing new, but at least now I know that is the correct method.

New strategy: Once you get the hang of it, it is fairly easy to backhand the scoop from the left flipper and get a letter in VAULT, which will activate vault multiball when you win at the board game, guv No you a good chance to get three tokens instead of 1. Dedicate an entire weekend to Safecracker without turning off the game and hope your PS4 doesn't explode and this might (hopefully) be doable.

You can also put the PS4 into rest mode without exiting TPA. When you turn your PS4 back on, it'll put you right back into the game and you can pick up where you left off due to the suspend feature. It doesn't count this as a reset.

However, hitting the "SKIP" button when putting in your initials DOES seem to count as a reset, so don't skip that!

 

[Kolchak357]

So the machine assumes there is never more than one silver coin in it at any time? And each time you come back it goes back to a full complete set of 250 coins with only one silver? Considering there are only 26 different coins, this turns to pure chopping wood. Glad I read this thread. I hadn't planned on tackling this goal anytime soon, but now I won't ever bother.

 

[Gorgar]

Last night I earned 35 tokens without exiting a game. I begun with 17 of 25 and after earning 27 tokens, I was still at 17 of 25. I thought something was up. But then, 3 of the next 5 were new, which was weird. Still no silver token though.