Table of the Week Club...Week 12: BRIDE OF PIN*BOT

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Do we want to consider banning this exploit for the tourney? Even without extra balls, I can go hours between drains doing this forever...

This list of things we'd like to see banned on BoP is getting quite long. Might as well say "you can load it up and plunge 3 balls, winner is the one who gets the best skill shot results".

 

[Johni3w6]

This list of things we'd like to see banned on BoP is getting quite long. Might as well say "you can load it up and plunge 3 balls, winner is the one who gets the best skill shot results".

I'd go for that, j/k.
This table for me is getting to the Billion shot, my all time hs is around 2 bil. Not that good at keeping the billion shot going.

 

[invitro]

Do we want to consider banning this exploit for the tourney? Even without extra balls, I can go hours between drains doing this forever...

If I understand correctly, this exploit is of benefit only after getting all the billion shots. How many people do you expect to get 10B+ in the tournament? Do you want to place a bet on it? (I remember you saying something about people getting a max bonus on every ball on BH... )

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

If I understand correctly, this exploit is of benefit only after getting all the billion shots. How many people do you expect to get 10B+ in the tournament? Do you want to place a bet on it? (I remember you saying something about people getting a max bonus on every ball on BH... )

Well I'm sure I could! More challenging to get 1B+ without multiball (but only just mind).

 

[shutyertrap]

Guys, I'm not going to institute special rules for one table. Now if you wanna knock yourself out with scoring 10 billion, go for it. You'll get 10 points just like all the other group leaders, even if they won without needing a billion point shot. That's the beauty of this tourney style. And seeing as how top 10 players are all spread out so there should only be one per group, well your competition may not be what you think it is.

 

[vikingerik]

Are you doing the "put up or shut up" group with the top players together, like on NGG last time? And if so, is the table Bride, since it was the final one selected?

Even if not, I'd still grind the skill shots as long as possible, both because table scores are a tiebreaker between groups and because no-shows may bump around the pool groupings. If you want to say that's a problem with me and not with the table/tourney, so be it.

 

[shutyertrap]

Are you doing the "put up or shut up" group with the top players together, like on NGG last time? And if so, is the table Bride, since it was the final one selected?

Even if not, I'd still grind the skill shots as long as possible, both because table scores are a tiebreaker between groups and because no-shows may bump around the pool groupings. If you want to say that's a problem with me and not with the table/tourney, so be it.

I never said 'you' had a problem (actually I don't think I ever used the word problem at all)

Bride will not be the put up or shut up table. I'm debating between White Water and BK 2000 in terms of which will be less grindy for competitors of equal ranks.

 

[shutyertrap]

So I had happen to me what always seems to happen to me with BoP. Cocky as hell with first ball, only it came off a sling weird and drained out the left. 2nd ball, was killing it. Metamorphed the chica lickety split, and then couldn't hit the heart ramp for the billion shot. Like, not even close. Timer runs out, I light it again. Same thing. 2 shots up the ramp almost immediately, and now all I get is every other Big Wheel award. Finally I lost my balls, plunged my extras, started 3rd ball. 3 more times on the Big Wheel, no billion came up. Finished with a little over 100 million.

Just wanted to highlight, that the billion shot is not a given for everyone. I choke on it, a lot. Also, letting the extra balls drain shortens the game significantly.

I'm hoping this shows up again in my league at some point. I saw it once, skipped playing it because there were so many other tables I wanted to try. Won't make that mistake again. I did play Black Hole this past weekend. I knew there was something wonky with aiming in TPA, and the real machine confirmed it. TPA flipper physics for BH may as well be the equivalent of those in the vid pin of ToM. Also, you know how you can hit the gravity hole off a running shot down the right inlane from the right most flipper? On the real deal that will send the ball up to the L or A of black. To hit the gravity hole, had to catch on the lower right flipper, and then aim. If you tried doing it off a runner, the ball would hop a bit transitioning from the two flippers, thus screwing up your angle. And that lower play field is so much longer IRL! Anyway, just a total different experience from TPA. I also wound up winning my grouping with the massive score of 194,000. Yeah, huge difference from TPA. I took 4th out of 24 players, with top table score being 277,000. So take that for what it's worth.

 

[vikingerik]

I'm debating between White Water and BK 2000 in terms of which will be less grindy for competitors of equal ranks.

Why not Theatre? That's the only one of these four that's actually skill-testing rather than grindy. Whitewater is nothing but Whirlpool Challenge forever. BK2K I'm not really familiar with (never bought it) but people say that's grindy too.

 

[Slam23]

BK2K is super grindy, 95% right flipper

 

[shutyertrap]

So seriously, ToM would be the best choice? I thought everyone complained about how long those games went.

 

[Slam23]

So I had happen to me what always seems to happen to me with BoP. Cocky as hell with first ball, only it came off a sling weird and drained out the left. 2nd ball, was killing it. Metamorphed the chica lickety split, and then couldn't hit the heart ramp for the billion shot. Like, not even close. Timer runs out, I light it again. Same thing. 2 shots up the ramp almost immediately, and now all I get is every other Big Wheel award. Finally I lost my balls, plunged my extras, started 3rd ball. 3 more times on the Big Wheel, no billion came up. Finished with a little over 100 million.

Just wanted to highlight, that the billion shot is not a given for everyone. I choke on it, a lot. Also, letting the extra balls drain shortens the game significantly.

I'm hoping this shows up again in my league at some point. I saw it once, skipped playing it because there were so many other tables I wanted to try. Won't make that mistake again. I did play Black Hole this past weekend. I knew there was something wonky with aiming in TPA, and the real machine confirmed it. TPA flipper physics for BH may as well be the equivalent of those in the vid pin of ToM. Also, you know how you can hit the gravity hole off a running shot down the right inlane from the right most flipper? On the real deal that will send the ball up to the L or A of black. To hit the gravity hole, had to catch on the lower right flipper, and then aim. If you tried doing it off a runner, the ball would hop a bit transitioning from the two flippers, thus screwing up your angle. And that lower play field is so much longer IRL! Anyway, just a total different experience from TPA. I also wound up winning my grouping with the massive score of 194,000. Yeah, huge difference from TPA. I took 4th out of 24 players, with top table score being 277,000. So take that for what it's worth.

Sometimes TPA gets it right, sometimes not so much! They are getting better at getting close to the physics of the real tables imho. But then again, a lot of IRL tables play differently too, depending on setup and overall wear & tear. I guess even 2 new-out-of-box tables could play differently. I did some in-depth comparisons a while back between TPA and IRL tables, I did it for STTNG and CFTBL if I remember correctly: http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/3960-Side-by-side-comparison-with-a-real-table-(part-2) (yup, found it again)
We also have a Black Hole in our clubhouse, sadly it's not in the best condition so a comparison would not be that valid probably. But as said before, multilevel tables like that (also Haunted House for example) are much more impressive IRL than in TPA. The widebody and playfield depth, visuals and sounds are far more in-your-face than TPA can simulate. That's not meant to be a complaint, because only when we get highlevel 3D virtual reality, the 2D screens can't offer that experience.

 

[vikingerik]

So seriously, ToM would be the best choice? I thought everyone complained about how long those games went.

ToM is the only one in this set where I wouldn't, at least. Even with EBs, it's not quite infinityable, you'd have to reach Grand Finale every ball and even I can't manage that. Without EBs, competition is about grinding the safest shots you can over and over. The other three tables all have something prone to grinding but ToM really doesn't. Spirit Ring or the Theatre loop are about the only such elements and even those have some risk and only moderate rewards. I think ToM rewards skill over grinding most out of the four by a considerable margin.

 

[Gus]

Nudging to the plunger from the heartbeat ramp in BoP is really cheesy and a good example of how unrealistic the nudging is in TPA. If I make 8 billion shots off the wheel I'll be more than satisified. I very much agree that ToM is the least grindy table of the four this month, even though a few extra balls can be won from the video mode as well in normal play. You don't need Grand Finale on every ball, theoretically.

This will be the longest tournament yet for sure, but playing without extra balls can end games unexpectedly fast. Which is something I really like with this format!

 

[Maggie]

I've managed to get good enough at the left wheel shot to be able to play more or less indefinitely (that is, until I get bored and decide to stop doing that and just play the game out). Anyway, last night I managed 2.9 B. Yup, very close to old school billion. My problem is the 2. I got a lot of big wheel shots, but only two billionaire club shots. For those of you who routinely get 8 of those in a game, may I ask how? I have a lot of failed attempts at getting to the big wheel. Does the machine just decide that I should have gotten 8B by then, and put me in the 5/50m zone? Or does it just always take a lot of big wheel shots to get 8 shots at a billion?

Some other observations about this table. It was the first one that I got all my wizard goals on. It is pretty easy, except for the part about not getting enough billionaire club shots. But I haven't played it as much as other tables. The reason for that is that this table is *so* built for the boys. I can put up with a lot. I don't mind scantily clad girls, or call outs from the machine that assume that the player is male. Pinball is male-dominated and it makes sense that the machines are all built for male sensibilities. But this machine is all about having sex with a woman, and well, I'd rather have sex with a guy! Much rather.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

The billion shot is random. Sometimes you wait ages for one, sometimes you get 3 in a row. Just keep lighting up the Big Wheel.

 

[Slam23]

I've managed to get good enough at the left wheel shot to be able to play more or less indefinitely (that is, until I get bored and decide to stop doing that and just play the game out). Anyway, last night I managed 2.9 B. Yup, very close to old school billion. My problem is the 2. I got a lot of big wheel shots, but only two billionaire club shots. For those of you who routinely get 8 of those in a game, may I ask how? I have a lot of failed attempts at getting to the big wheel. Does the machine just decide that I should have gotten 8B by then, and put me in the 5/50m zone? Or does it just always take a lot of big wheel shots to get 8 shots at a billion?

Some other observations about this table. It was the first one that I got all my wizard goals on. It is pretty easy, except for the part about not getting enough billionaire club shots. But I haven't played it as much as other tables. The reason for that is that this table is *so* built for the boys. I can put up with a lot. I don't mind scantily clad girls, or call outs from the machine that assume that the player is male. Pinball is male-dominated and it makes sense that the machines are all built for male sensibilities. But this machine is all about having sex with a woman, and well, I'd rather have sex with a guy! Much rather.

Apart from the obvious, I think I never had a second thought about the slightly more subtle male-oriented things like callouts. Can you give some examples of that? This could be a very interesting thread you know, a female perspective on pinball. Sorely lacking here I might add I usually tend to meet two type of women in the context of pinball: the serious female players (who can kick my but at real tables any day), and women who had the choice of coming to the club with their husband or sit alone in front of the telly. They can be spotted fairly easy by the bored and slightly embaressed look on their face, while hubby is making love to the table so to speak Anyway, what I find a bit irritating as a male, is that pinball manufacturers think that I want to see scantily clad women on a table, even if they have nothing to do with the theme of the table or pinball in general (just like all those car ads), and that when they want to have the table oozing sex, they aim at a very adolescent view. Just my opinion.

 

[Maggie]

Thanks, Eldar. Will keep trying on the billion shot. I need to get more efficient at getting to the big wheel -- that adds to the feeling that the billion shot doesn't come up a lot.

Slam: Off the top of my head, without opening up the games to get exact quotes: HRC refers to the player as male. So does MM. Probably AFM. Dr. Dude (or do people in that crowd refer to girls as dudes? I'm not up on the lingo). Then there are tables that are themed for men: motorcycles and high speed chases and what not. I'll try to compile a list as I go through games. But you can just listen for it too. But certainly there are many tables that are truly gender neutral. TOM, for example. I don't play real life pinball. Are there any tables that are built for girls?

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Thanks, Eldar. Will keep trying on the billion shot. I need to get more efficient at getting to the big wheel -- that adds to the feeling that the billion shot doesn't come up a lot.

Slam: Off the top of my head, without opening up the games to get exact quotes: HRC refers to the player as male. So does MM. Probably AFM. Dr. Dude (or do people in that crowd refer to girls as dudes? I'm not up on the lingo). Then there are tables that are themed for men: motorcycles and high speed chases and what not. I'll try to compile a list as I go through games. But you can just listen for it too. But certainly there are many tables that are truly gender neutral. TOM, for example. I don't play real life pinball. Are there any tables that are built for girls?

TOM is an interesting one. To my mind, the magician is female.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Meanwhile, over in another thread, things are slowly degenerating.

http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/7986-Women?p=202996&viewfull=1#post202996