Table Pack #71 Speculation

[Pinballwiz45b]

I am 90% certain the reason Banzai Run took so long was because they couldn't get the physics to work right on the backbox playfield.

The game works fine on those low inclines that pinballs are normally played on. But this? This is almost vertical! It must have taken them most of this digital version's dev cycle just to get this upper playfield to work right!

I mean, the board game in Safe Cracker is one thing--that's just a bunch of digital inputs. In Banzai Run, as the great Harry Williams himself once said, "the ball is wild." Farsight must have been testing their physics for MONTHS just for THIS TABLE to properly work in all aspects. And they'd put in the effort to make it work, too--not just because this table is unique in pinball (really, how many backbox playfields have you seen since?), but because it's the very first pinball machine designed by the man, the myth, the legend: Pat Lawlor.

They'd BETTER do him right.

I hear that. Banzai Run is one of my favorites because everything fits into this game. The vertical playfield, the theme, music and sounds -- it's this good.

Can't ever get enough of "HE'S CHALLENGED 'THE KING!'".

The emulation was actually posing some issues, something to do with active state of lower play field while ball is in the upper. I don’t know the exact circumstances, but is has something to do with if the ball falls from the upper without hitting a switch, there is another on the lower so the table knows where the ball is.

I just had a radical idea -- give the option of playing Banzai Run WITHOUT the vertical playfield, but disable leaderboards, like in Operator Menu. I've heard of a few machines that have done this.

"Banzai Run uses a software compensation if the magnet heading to the
Hill isn't working. Any shot to the Hill Entrance will spot a challenged
opponent if lit (one per shot), lock the ball for multiball, and defeat the
King. This means no Cycle Jumps or other cool stuff, but at least it doesn't
kill the game."

Also, keep in mind that the ball should feed from the upper playfield to the ramp 99.9% of the time. The ball should also recognize the plastics and bumper caps as surfaces -- I want to see that Super Jump recreated if that happens!

 

[FarSight_Matt]

The emulation was actually posing some issues, something to do with active state of lower play field while ball is in the upper. I don’t know the exact circumstances, but is has something to do with if the ball falls from the upper without hitting a switch, there is another on the lower so the table knows where the ball is.

The biggest issue with the emulation is for some reason any object indexed above 61 just didn't work for some reason, as far as I understand it. And the physics are still a WIP

 

[DA5ID]

Banzai Run - i assume the screen is going to switch views between the upper and lower playfields.
what happens when you are in multiball and you have a ball in both playfields?

 

[FarSight_Matt]

Banzai Run - i assume the screen is going to switch views between the upper and lower playfields.
what happens when you are in multiball and you have a ball in both playfields?

I don't remember, but I think it wasn't possible to do that. The magnet doesn't activate during multiball and you can't get multiball while in the upper playfield.

 

[shutyertrap]

I just watched video and when in multiball, you have to lock one of the balls in order to get back up to the upper playfield. If anything, I'd be worried about how quick the ball exits from upper to lower and how quickly the screen will adjust for that.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

I just watched video and when in multiball, you have to lock one of the balls in order to get back up to the upper playfield. If anything, I'd be worried about how quick the ball exits from upper to lower and how quickly the screen will adjust for that.

It might have to be as soon as the ball appears again as it exits from a drained/successful Cliff Jump. If the ball is slow enough when it falls between the flippers, the camera should be able to make it back to normal long before the ball reaches the flippers. Either way, the camera should be able to make it.

The only times that you have one on each playfield are when you lock a ball for multiball, or when you go after The King. The thing is, multiball is locked to the lower playfield. Once the ball is plunged, the other ball will kick out, and the camera will be in Multiball Camera (unless that option is turned off). You'll have to watch for the ball to appear on the ramp as it exits the upper playfield.

 

[Zaphod77]

the upper field itself isnt' so hard. just pump up the gravity factor.

but yeah getting the switch back to the lower field working reliably is the trick, because te game deactivates the lower field when a ball is on the upper one, to not blow fuses.

And it has some unique camera challenges that absolutely MUST be resolved. it must reliably switch camera when it needs to.

The engine is smart enough to leave multiball camera when one ball is locked so the other one can go to the upper field. In fact, that's what causes the troubles with dr dude, which needs to be in multiball cam whenever there are no balls in the trough to not focus on the mixmaster when you sneak a ball in before the first one is released.

 

[FarSight_Matt]

I was gonna edit my post with this, but my internet died at the worst time...

After the Lock, the second ball is sent to the manual plunger; the Skill Shot is still available, but only for the points. After the second ball hits a playfield targets, the ball in the Lock Shot kickout is kicked upward, but since the upper playfield's flippers are disabled, it falls to the lower playfield. Throughout the multiball, the ramp is lit for 2 laps.

http://pinball.org/rules/banzairun.html

 

[vikingerik]

You guys all know that TPA has already done a vertical backbox playfield, right? Cirqus Voltaire. It's simpler but it is vertical physics with a kicker and camera movement. Scared Stiff also implemented camera movement for a backbox feature.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

You guys all know that TPA has already done a vertical backbox playfield, right? Cirqus Voltaire. It's simpler but it is vertical physics with a kicker and camera movement. Scared Stiff also implemented camera movement for a backbox feature.

CV =/= Banzai Run. Sure, both games have this in common, but keep in mind, Banzai Run has playfields that interconnect. That ball is going to be the same as it enters and leaves the upper playfield, and the movement will carry over as it exits.

The ball moves FAST on the upper playfield. You're going to have to watch for that ramp feed as it exits from a (failed) Cliff Jump, especially during the start of Multiball.

 

[Citizen]

Cirqus Voltaire. It's simpler but it is vertical physics with a kicker and camera movement.

Yeah, gotta love when the camera gets stuck on the wrong level in CV.

 

[vikingerik]

That ball is going to be the same as it enters and leaves the upper playfield, and the movement will carry over as it exits.

You think so? Given Farsight's history with physics, I wouldn't be surprised at all if TPA just respawned the ball with predefined velocity each time in and out of the backbox.

Anyway, the point is the backbox playfield isn't anywhere near this magical super complicated mystery land that some people are making it out to be. It's only moderately more than a few things TPA has already done. Like the secret passage entrance to Haunted House's basement as another example.

 

[FarSight_Matt]

You think so? Given Farsight's history with physics, I wouldn't be surprised at all if TPA just respawned the ball with predefined velocity each time in and out of the backbox.

Anyway, the point is the backbox playfield isn't anywhere near this magical super complicated mystery land that some people are making it out to be. It's only moderately more than a few things TPA has already done. Like the secret passage entrance to Haunted House's basement as another example.

Wrong

 

[shutyertrap]

Wrong

Classic.

 

[Zaphod77]

the game uses a switch to detect transfers from upper playfield to lower one. the physical simulation MUST make sure that this switch gets tripped when it should and only when it should.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

Wrong

Pwned.

It's Banzai Run.

--HILL CLOSED--

 

[dave950lam]

Yeah, Banzai Run confirmed with Steam achievements placed.

 

[Nightwing]

This is one thread I'll be happy to see closed.

 

[shutyertrap]

Okay, closed it is.