The Humble Weekly Sale: Zen Studios

[superballs]

I bought it even if I'm never going to play them.
Or, I would play them, but it's another "Steam only" deal. It's really sad that Humble Bundle has gone so far from their initial concept of DRM free games, but I still like to support pinball games in general, even if I'm not much for supporting Valve.

I'd consider finding a cracked copy, but I think that's still illegal even if you've bought the game.

What's wrong with supporting Valve?
A) They make not good but great games
B) They have what must be among the fairest DRM ever designed

This is still a hell of a deal.

 

[jkonami]

Steam is a "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" kinda deal. Many games are digital release only these days, so you have to pick one service or the other, and that includes both TPA and Pinball FX 2. Both developers need assurance that their bread and butter isn't going to be pirated to hell and back, so some DRM is a plus for them in mitigating that damage (however inevitable). I personally like a box for my shelf, and an offline copy, but in cases like these, that's not an option. Steamworks DRM is totally fair. All it is basically is a CD-check to see if the account logged in owns the game you try to play. Not different than what Apple or Android do. Some publishers, for example Ubisoft, add their own terrible DRM on top of Steamworks, limiting how many times you can install, or putting Securom or Starforce or many other kinds of invasive software on your PC. Do like I do, read up on what you are buying and try to avoid those games. Plus, with Steam you get a few extra perks over a free standing release. You can implement VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat), which TPA and PBFX2 both still need I think, but to protect the integrity of the scoreboards it's a nice option. You get easy, automatic patching to the latest release, which is usually a good thing. I'll admit they pulled a 1984 on me with Plants vs. Zombies and yanked the Micheal Jackson zombie from under me, but I'm over it. In the case of TPA though I can just log in and it's already got the new fixes downloading automagically.

As long as one day I can set up a physical pinball cabinet and put TPA and PBFX2 in there, and hopefully eventually Pro Pinball too, I'm happy to buy them through steam. We should support everyone out there making new pinball tables, each of the main 3 are putting out very competent, professional work.

To keep this on topic: I admit I was a hater on Pinball FX 2, but I'm warming up to them, especially the Marvel tables. Some of those initial tables are still a little bland, but I can see where some of them are pretty cool. I was even enjoying Biolab a bit last night. I wanna go back and research this, but aren't some of the tables based on real world tables? Like they flip-flop the board layout and then change the theme, right?

 

[norbert26]

it didn't quite end with the bargain either. next thing you know i was on a rampage until all the tables were purchased.

 

[jkonami]

it didn't quite end with the bargain either. next thing you know i was on a rampage until all the tables were purchased.

I can't quite afford to buy the rest yet, but I might get them during the Steam Xmas sale. I might pass on the other Star Wars tables (not a fan) and Ms. Splosion Man, but definitely getting the rest of the Marvel tables.

 

[superballs]

Steam is a "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" kinda deal. Many games are digital release only these days, so you have to pick one service or the other, and that includes both TPA and Pinball FX 2. Both developers need assurance that their bread and butter isn't going to be pirated to hell and back, so some DRM is a plus for them in mitigating that damage (however inevitable). I personally like a box for my shelf, and an offline copy, but in cases like these, that's not an option. Steamworks DRM is totally fair. All it is basically is a CD-check to see if the account logged in owns the game you try to play. Not different than what Apple or Android do. Some publishers, for example Ubisoft, add their own terrible DRM on top of Steamworks, limiting how many times you can install, or putting Securom or Starforce or many other kinds of invasive software on your PC. Do like I do, read up on what you are buying and try to avoid those games. Plus, with Steam you get a few extra perks over a free standing release. You can implement VAC (Valve Anti-Cheat), which TPA and PBFX2 both still need I think, but to protect the integrity of the scoreboards it's a nice option. You get easy, automatic patching to the latest release, which is usually a good thing. I'll admit they pulled a 1984 on me with Plants vs. Zombies and yanked the Micheal Jackson zombie from under me, but I'm over it. In the case of TPA though I can just log in and it's already got the new fixes downloading automagically.

As long as one day I can set up a physical pinball cabinet and put TPA and PBFX2 in there, and hopefully eventually Pro Pinball too, I'm happy to buy them through steam. We should support everyone out there making new pinball tables, each of the main 3 are putting out very competent, professional work.

To keep this on topic: I admit I was a hater on Pinball FX 2, but I'm warming up to them, especially the Marvel tables. Some of those initial tables are still a little bland, but I can see where some of them are pretty cool. I was even enjoying Biolab a bit last night. I wanna go back and research this, but aren't some of the tables based on real world tables? Like they flip-flop the board layout and then change the theme, right?

I've always liked Zen tables, I mean, they are what they are and that is it. In the end it's still hitting ramps and targets with a (virtual) metal sphere using (virtual) flippers and nudging.

It's like going out in the rain:
If you see it's raining and moan and groan about it, then being out in the rain is miserable
If you simply accept that you are going to get wet and get it done, it's nowhere near as bad.

You just need to manage your expectations, there is great fun to be had with a lot of Zen tables.

 

[jkonami]

I've always liked Zen tables, I mean, they are what they are and that is it. In the end it's still hitting ramps and targets with a (virtual) metal sphere using (virtual) flippers and nudging.

It's like going out in the rain:
If you see it's raining and moan and groan about it, then being out in the rain is miserable
If you simply accept that you are going to get wet and get it done, it's nowhere near as bad.

You just need to manage your expectations, there is great fun to be had with a lot of Zen tables.

I was kind of an overnight convert. All it took was the Humble Bundle deal for me. I've already had some fun with it, and I recommend it to anyone even if you're like me and prefer real tables like in TPA.

I was think the DMD animations could be cooler. I like how on many of the Williams ones, it's all original animation designed for the DMD. I feel like make a 3D animation and then converting it over to 4 color grayscale is a little cheap looking. I've seen both in PBFX2, though, but more 3D conversions than original animation.

 

[superballs]

I was kind of an overnight convert. All it took was the Humble Bundle deal for me. I've already had some fun with it, and I recommend it to anyone even if you're like me and prefer real tables like in TPA.

I was think the DMD animations could be cooler. I like how on many of the Williams ones, it's all original animation designed for the DMD. I feel like make a 3D animation and then converting it over to 4 color grayscale is a little cheap looking. I've seen both in PBFX2, though, but more 3D conversions than original animation.

I definitely prefer TPA, but PBFX2 got me through to the XBOX launch and that's where it grew on me.
The DMD can be a little uninspired. But I thought the idea of trees walking around the PF was really cool

 

[shutyertrap]

I find with most of the Zen tables, it takes a while to warm up to them. They're not the easiest things in the world to understand what shot you really should be aiming for, Earth Defense, I'm looking at you.

Once you do figure them somewhat out though, I think they're highly enjoyable.

 

[jkonami]

I definitely prefer TPA, but PBFX2 got me through to the XBOX launch and that's where it grew on me.
The DMD can be a little uninspired. But I thought the idea of trees walking around the PF was really cool

Which one has the trees? At first I think the 3D models are what I didn't like about it but I think I'm fine with it now.

I find with most of the Zen tables, it takes a while to warm up to them. They're not the easiest things in the world to understand what shot you really should be aiming for, Earth Defense, I'm looking at you.

Once you do figure them somewhat out though, I think they're highly enjoyable.

I think this is what I underestimated at first. They all have rule sets that you have to learn - and this is what I like most from pinball. Any table that you have to slowly learn to reveal a new mode, animation, music, multiball... gradual payoff for persistence. I appreciate it far more than instant multiball gratification. Some of them are pretty interesting too, like the Civil War table, where it looks like you have to get a percentage of the vote between Cap and Ironman, and the table announcing various mutants taking sides as you play, pretty cool. I agree with you that sometimes I don't know what to do on many tables, and I noticed the guide for playing they include isn't as in depth as Farsight's guides, but I haven't decided if that's a good thing or a bad thing yet. I kinda like some of the mystery to remain to be discovered.

The other thing PBFX nailed for me is this: My friend bought the bundle too, so now it shows for each table who holds the high score. Now we can go back and forth trying to beat each other's scores. I really hope Farsight builds in support for Steam friends leaderboards, in-game because it's exactly what I would want out of a high score table. It would be extra awesome if down the road, I built a cabinet, then my friends internet scores could somehow update on the DMD through the internet.

 

[shutyertrap]

The other thing PBFX nailed for me is this: My friend bought the bundle too, so now it shows for each table who holds the high score. Now we can go back and forth trying to beat each other's scores. I really hope Farsight builds in support for Steam friends leaderboards, in-game because it's exactly what I would want out of a high score table. It would be extra awesome if down the road, I built a cabinet, then my friends internet scores could somehow update on the DMD through the internet.

Hands down my favorite thing in Zen that TPA has yet to do. There is a thread in the forums of people from here who are playing on Steam... http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/5678-STEAM-account-names ...which will instantly give you a whole slew of friends to chase scores with!

One more comment about learning the shots and such...

With Marvel tables in particular I realized they're trying to tell a story. While that confused me at the start, once I started piecing them together, I really started getting much more out of them. Moon Knight is the perfect example of that. I do hate that Zen likes to put up all sorts of animations and instructions in the DMD while the ball is still very active. Your average Williams game really understood that the ball should be captured before giving important rules. I always feel like I need a 2nd person to be a spotter for me with Zen!

 

[jkonami]

Hands down my favorite thing in Zen that TPA has yet to do. There is a thread in the forums of people from here who are playing on Steam... http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/5678-STEAM-account-names ...which will instantly give you a whole slew of friends to chase scores with!

One more comment about learning the shots and such...

With Marvel tables in particular I realized they're trying to tell a story. While that confused me at the start, once I started piecing them together, I really started getting much more out of them. Moon Knight is the perfect example of that. I do hate that Zen likes to put up all sorts of animations and instructions in the DMD while the ball is still very active. Your average Williams game really understood that the ball should be captured before giving important rules. I always feel like I need a 2nd person to be a spotter for me with Zen!

Thanks for the tip! I am familiar with some of the story lines from the Avengers tables - I've read the Infinity Gauntlet, albeit years ago, and I've seen the animated World War Hulk movie (aka Planet Hulk, I believe it's related), and of course the Avengers movie. So maybe that'll help me figure them out. I agree totally that the DMD is usually unwatchable, and I have lost several balls while trying to view it. If I can I try to cradle the ball to let me view it momentarily.

They seem to have hinted a Deadpool table is coming out, I hope they do a Marvel Zombies table too. I think one of things I am really liking is that they go with these self contained Marvel story arcs (Civil War, IG, WWH) so I think it has a chance.

Back to what I was saying before, has anyone noticed Tesla bears some similarity to TOTAN?

 

[Fungi]

Well, I did it. I spent hours playing Zen tables. The thing is, I then played TPA immediately after. Cirqus Voltaire to be exact. Boy did the ball feel floaty.

 

[shutyertrap]

Well, I did it. I spent hours playing Zen tables. The thing is, I then played TPA immediately after. Cirqus Voltaire to be exact. Boy did the ball feel floaty.

Hehe, especially when Zen's balls feel like they are made of lead.

 

[Fungi]

Hehe, especially when Zen's balls feel like they are made of lead.

Y'know that thing that happens when you go to pick up a box or jug that you think is full, but turns out to be empty? Kinda like that.

 

[Naildriver74]

Thanks for the tip on this nothing wrong with more pinball

 

[Espy]

Zen's tables, particularly their newest ones, are complex beasts. You really need to learn them to love them. When they release a new table, I go through a cycle of thinking "I'm not going to like this", straight through to "this table is AMAZING!" as I learn the rules. They definitely need a few hours investment to get the most out of.

 

[SpiffyRob]

I bought a fair number of Zen's tables on Xbox, but jumped as soon as I saw this offer. In portrait mode on my cabinet, these are pretty terrific.

 

[superballs]

Zen's tables, particularly their newest ones, are complex beasts. You really need to learn them to love them. When they release a new table, I go through a cycle of thinking "I'm not going to like this", straight through to "this table is AMAZING!" as I learn the rules. They definitely need a few hours investment to get the most out of.

This is what I like most about Zen tables is that they are generally well thought out and demand that kind of time, which is great for a pinball table.

 

[Espy]

This is what I like most about Zen tables is that they are generally well thought out and demand that kind of time, which is great for a pinball table.

I don't think Zen get enough credit for their rulesets. They're in all likelihood more complex than anything any real machine has ever done.

 

[shutyertrap]

I don't think Zen get enough credit for their rulesets. They're in all likelihood more complex than anything any real machine has ever done.

Too bad they're so piss poor about writing instructions though! Seriously, the table guides are about as useful as what you see for instructions on an actual table.