The On-Going "What has FarSight said about ___ table?" List Thread

[Shaneus]

*searches for sarcasm font*

That's italics.

 

[Naildriver74]

Shutyertrap, we see things differently

 

[Baron Rubik]

Shutyertrap, we see things differently

Weren't sure if you were giving him an instruction, or stating his username there.

 

[Bowflex]

Hopefully at this point a Kickstarter isn't a handout for Farsight but more of a way to get the community to be apart of what they are doing. Not just sit back and be a consumer.

Kickstarters do bring the community together. Unfortunately it's for the wrong reasons. Facebook tends to light up with complaints about the fact that they even have to do one and criticize the way Farsight does business, not to mention they feel it is wrong to shell out money in addition to the normal fees.

 

[WesReviews]

I think we should start from scratch unless we can source dates, personally.

Starting now, I will include specific dates with comments, but I am not going back page, by page, by page, by page, by page and copying and pasting dates all the way back to August of 2013 like I did when I began this thread. I spent a lot of time on that, and I thought the information I did get would be appreciated but it appears that I was wrong. I welcome anyone who wants to spend the time to go back and get dates for each and every comment, but it's not something I am going to do.

Going forward, I don't mind to include date info, but I just don't have the time to go back and get the specific date info. Take the information or leave it. It was never meant to be a hard and fast statement. The info was meant to be a helpful tool to see what kind of tables were being asked for and what the general Facebook comments from FarSight on a specific table were. It was never meant to be something where someone would take the info and say "Wait, NO! They said on ________ (insert date) that ________ (insert table) WOULD NOT be coming, so they totally LIED TO US!!!" That was not my intention when I was gathering this information.

 

[Kolchak357]

I don't need it time stamped. I just find it interesting to see what they have been saying. I don't take anything they post on Facebook as gospel anyway. Just interesting to read and comment on every now and then. Plus this thread saves me from going over to Facebook to read it myself, which I appreciate.

 

[WesReviews]

I don't need it time stamped. I just find it interesting to see what they have been saying. I don't take anything they post on Facebook as gospel anyway. Just interesting to read and comment on every now and then. Plus this thread saves me from going over to Facebook to read it myself, which I appreciate.

Exactly. It's just a helpful tool. Nothing majorly serious or scientific. It was never meant to be anything to hold FarSight accountable to.

I just always liked going to the Facebook page and seeing someone mention a table and then going "oh, cool!" when FarSight actually commented on it. So I just figured it'd be nice to keep track of what's asked for and what FS's fb rep mentioned in regard to it.

And yeah, the Facebook page can be a bit frustrating because of the people (one db attention-whore in particular) who almost immediately responds to people's positive table request posts with something like "I hope we don't get that table. I can't stand that one. I hope we get _____ instead."

Almost never fails. So rude and tactless.

 

[Bowflex]

Exactly. It's just a helpful tool. Nothing majorly serious or scientific. It was never meant to be anything to hold FarSight accountable to.

I just always liked going to the Facebook page and seeing someone mention a table and then going "oh, cool!" when FarSight actually commented on it. So I just figured it'd be nice to keep track of what's asked for and what FS's fb rep mentioned in regard to it.

And yeah, the Facebook page can be a bit frustrating because of the people (one db attention-whore in particular) who almost immediately responds to people's positive table request posts with something like "I hope we don't get that table. I can't stand that one. I hope we get _____ instead."

Almost never fails. So rude and tactless.

It's easy to be negative but I always do my best to try to root for my team rather than boo the opponent. It's more respectful and actually a positive, supportive action. For TPA, I try to hold my disdain for tables until they are released and I still try to support those. But I will do what I can to promote tables I feel are awesome every chance. Go Earthshaker, Congo, Demolition Man, Fathom, Judge Dredd, Johnny Mnemonic and Paragon!

 

[Naildriver74]

Kickstarters do bring the community together. Unfortunately it's for the wrong reasons. Facebook tends to light up with complaints about the fact that they even have to do one and criticize the way Farsight does business, not to mention they feel it is wrong to shell out money in addition to the normal fees.

I'm not on Facebook myself but I do remember what you are talking about. I've been in two of the Kickstarters and really liked them. Let them complain there were still a lot of people willing to give. Although the last one had me wondering if it was going to make it. That's why I put up more to help.

 

[francis247uk]

Any updates on here at all? Used to like reading this thread as I don't have facebook - any more news on High Speed II/Jackbot?

 

[Nightwing]

It's easy to be negative but I always do my best to try to root for my team rather than boo the opponent. It's more respectful and actually a positive, supportive action. For TPA, I try to hold my disdain for tables until they are released and I still try to support those. But I will do what I can to promote tables I feel are awesome every chance. Go Earthshaker, Congo, Demolition Man, Fathom, Judge Dredd, Johnny Mnemonic and Paragon!

Exactly. I think that being positive is better than being negative. There are tables in TPA that I don't really care about. And there are some tables that I want that will probably never make it in. But I still believe in TPA & what it is about.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

Kickstarters do bring the community together. Unfortunately it's for the wrong reasons. Facebook tends to light up with complaints about the fact that they even have to do one and criticize the way Farsight does business, not to mention they feel it is wrong to shell out money in addition to the normal fees.

Kickstarter is the sort of thing you have to tread carefully around and think about what sort of people will be willing to pay money in order for you to do what you want to do. The Pinball Arcade Kickstarters were unusual in that people had to pay more to obtain the tables than if they were to wait until the tables were released. To a normal person, after observing this behavior, they'd just most likely wait until the table is released officially and save some money that way. ("Why should I pay $10 for Terminator 2 when I can wait until it finally comes out and pay$5 for it?") Or if the Kickstarter fails and there is no table, they save all of their money. The people these Kickstarters would get are the hardcore, die-hard fans and the unaware.

By contrast, at least as far as video games go, backers on both Kickstarter and Indie GoGo alike have to pay LESS than what the game would cost when officially released. This is undoubtedly a significant reason for Mighty No. 9's and SKullgirls' successes, for instance.

The fact is that most people on Kickstarter are looking for discounts on upcoming products. They do not think of themselves as investors, and neither should anyone else. They think of themselves as pre-orderers, and they are expecting some kind of pre-order bonus, either more stuff or a lower price.

 

[Timelord]

Kickstarter is the sort of thing you have to tread carefully around and think about what sort of people will be willing to pay money in order for you to do what you want to do. The Pinball Arcade Kickstarters were unusual in that people had to pay more to obtain the tables than if they were to wait until the tables were released. To a normal person, after observing this behavior, they'd just most likely wait until the table is released officially and save some money that way. ("Why should I pay $10 for Terminator 2 when I can wait until it finally comes out and pay$5 for it?") Or if the Kickstarter fails and there is no table, they save all of their money. The people these Kickstarters would get are the hardcore, die-hard fans and the unaware.

By contrast, at least as far as video games go, backers on both Kickstarter and Indie GoGo alike have to pay LESS than what the game would cost when officially released. This is undoubtedly a significant reason for Mighty No. 9's and SKullgirls' successes, for instance.

The fact is that most people on Kickstarter are looking for discounts on upcoming products. They do not think of themselves as investors, and neither should anyone else. They think of themselves as pre-orderers, and they are expecting some kind of pre-order bonus, either more stuff or a lower price.

While this true for most games, this community has a tradition of giving generously in support of TPA. Several members have donated in the four figure amounts and many more for hundreds of dollars for a single table. This the polar opposite of getting a discount. While this is not mandatory for being a member here, it is indicative of our wholehearted support for pinball in general, and TPA in particular.

It's part of what makes this community different from, well the Facebook crowd for example.

Timelord ...

 

[Bowflex]

While this true for most games, this community has a tradition of giving generously in support of TPA. Several members have donated in the four figure amounts and many more for hundreds of dollars for a single table. This the polar opposite of getting a discount. While this is not mandatory for being a member here, it is indicative of our wholehearted support for pinball in general, and TPA in particular.

It's part of what makes this community different from, well the Facebook crowd for example.

Timelord ...

I am proud to have donated. I can't give as much as I would like but I do give generously for each one. Generosity is also relative but I have always donated over $100. I am proud to be a part of something that has made it possible for others to enjoy a table with the best possible recreation. That said I also hope that these kickstarters and the general business they do makes it possible for future licensed themes to be done without a kickstarter.

 

[DokkenRokken]

While this true for most games, this community has a tradition of giving generously in support of TPA. Several members have donated in the four figure amounts and many more for hundreds of dollars for a single table. This the polar opposite of getting a discount. While this is not mandatory for being a member here, it is indicative of our wholehearted support for pinball in general, and TPA in particular.

It's part of what makes this community different from, well the Facebook crowd for example.

Timelord ...

Now see, that's a big reason why most of the FB crowd has an issue with this forum, much like you guys have an issue with them. It shouldn't matter if you donate $1.00 or $1,000, as we ALL support the company. I find the fact that you try to differentiate people by dollar amounts to be a little snobbish. You "four figure amount" guys are no special than the two figure amount guys.

Kickstarters do bring the community together. Unfortunately it's for the wrong reasons. Facebook tends to light up with complaints about the fact that they even have to do one and criticize the way Farsight does business, not to mention they feel it is wrong to shell out money in addition to the normal fees.

I'm not sure how that's any different here? I see complaints on here all the time. The fact is, as paying customers, we ALL have the right to fairly criticize the company. How else can they improve themselves if all we do is kiss their butt and say "Take my 4 figure amounts!"? I also think that there are plenty of flip flop statements by Farsight that could be fairly criticized, the biggest one being the "We were giving away an extra table for free!" statement. (but that's a whole other issue not even worth debating at this point.)

Personally, I see nothing wrong with the new "1 table a month/$5.00 price" plan (Which is the general public's biggest complaint), as long as they take that newly acquired extra time and spend it on overdue projects or/and fixing bugs.

Kickstarter is the sort of thing you have to tread carefully around and think about what sort of people will be willing to pay money in order for you to do what you want to do. The Pinball Arcade Kickstarters were unusual in that people had to pay more to obtain the tables than if they were to wait until the tables were released. To a normal person, after observing this behavior, they'd just most likely wait until the table is released officially and save some money that way. ("Why should I pay $10 for Terminator 2 when I can wait until it finally comes out and pay$5 for it?") Or if the Kickstarter fails and there is no table, they save all of their money. The people these Kickstarters would get are the hardcore, die-hard fans and the unaware.

By contrast, at least as far as video games go, backers on both Kickstarter and Indie GoGo alike have to pay LESS than what the game would cost when officially released. This is undoubtedly a significant reason for Mighty No. 9's and SKullgirls' successes, for instance.

The fact is that most people on Kickstarter are looking for discounts on upcoming products. They do not think of themselves as investors, and neither should anyone else. They think of themselves as pre-orderers, and they are expecting some kind of pre-order bonus, either more stuff or a lower price.

I couldn't agree more. I also have nothing against Kickstarters. If the fans want a big name, big pricey table like say "The Addams Family" or "Indiana Jones", then I see no issue with Farsight asking for a little help.

In the end, both customer and company get what they want.

However, for me personally, it has to be a table I would want. Otherwise the perks or/and the table itself isn't worth my money. I had no interest in "Twilight Zone", "Star Trek: The Next Generation", or even "Terminator 2", but I at least donated $50.00 to the "Terminator 2" Kickstarter because I saw it might not make it. I had no interest in beta testing or having my name in the credits. Again, if it's a table I really want to see get made, than I'll donate my money, otherwise I'll just let the people who want it donate instead.

I also have a wife, kids, bills, and a mortgage to pay, I can't just gleefully waste thousands of dollars on pinball games and seek out special attention. (Is there some "Four Figure Donator's Club" that I'm unaware of?) That being said, it's also another example of the customers having the right to fairly criticize after giving up their hard earned money for a company to do something they want to do. If people invest money into something, they darn sire have the right to complain about it if something isn't to their liking.

In closing, you can give "generously" to Farsight, but that doesn't make you special or more important than the next customer, at least not on this planet. In the end, we ALL care about the company and we ALL give our hard earned money to make sure they have continued success.

 

[Timelord]

Quote Originally Posted by Timelord View Post
While this true for most games, this community has a tradition of giving generously in support of TPA. Several members have donated in the four figure amounts and many more for hundreds of dollars for a single table. This the polar opposite of getting a discount. While this is not mandatory for being a member here, it is indicative of our wholehearted support for pinball in general, and TPA in particular.

It's part of what makes this community different from, well the Facebook crowd for example.

Timelord ...
Now see, that's a big reason why most of the FB crowd has an issue with this forum, much like you guys have an issue with them. It shouldn't matter if you donate $1.00 or $1,000, as we ALL support the company. I find the fact that you try to differentiate people by dollar amounts to be a little snobbish. You "four figure amount" guys are no special than the two figure amount guys.

Actually I am **NOT** amongst those four figure donation people, but I recognize that they put their money where their mouth is and thank them.
They ask for and receive no more than the two figure donation people. They do demonstrate a measure of commitment that the Facebook crowd doesn't.

Talk is cheap, buy some soon.

What precisely is your problem with their generosity?

No one is twisting your arm.

Timelord ...

 

[DokkenRokken]

Actually I am **NOT** amongst those four figure donation people, but I recognize that they put their money where their mouth is and thank them.
They ask for and receive no more than the two figure donation people. They do demonstrate a measure of commitment that the Facebook crowd doesn't.

Talk is cheap, buy some soon.

What precisely is your problem with their generosity?

No one is twisting your arm.

Timelord ...

If you think that some of those heavy donors aren't from FB, you'd be sadly mistaken.

Also, you missed the point entirely, which is not surprising. lol Again, your comments were arrogant, but by all means continue.

Enjoy.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

I would not appreciate you guys any less for supporting the Pinball Arcade Kickstarters to the extent that you do, and you are great people for doing so. What I'm saying, however, is that it doesn't sound like a good idea to rely solely on the core fanbase to support a Kickstarter, as most core fanbases are too small to sustain a company for long. (Me, I hadn't pledged any amount as I hadn't acquired this game until very recently. And personally, while I do really like pinball, I am also a customer looking for a deal, and if it turns out the Kickstarter would make me pay more than if I would wait until the table's release, I will wait until the table's release to get it instead.)

Something like Star Wars or The Beatles have hardcore fans everywhere, and the fans can drum up support all by themselves. I do not believe The Pinball Arcade has a large enough fanbase for it, however, and Farsight MUST rely on non-fans to commit to its Kickstarters if they are to succeed, especially in the future with tables attached to more troublesome and demanding franchises like The Addams Family or The Simpsons Pinball Party (though The Simpsons may be a case where enough hardcore fans exist that they can support a Kickstarter for Farsight).

I will bring up perhaps the single most successful Kickstarter video game campaign ever, Mighty No. 9. Created and run by Keiji Inafune, the same man who created the Mega Man series, he asked for $900,000 and received $3.8 million. Bear in mind that the Mega Man franchise, while famous, is NOT big enough for its fanbase to fund a Kickstarter, and outside help was necessary. These are the awards ladder, as well as some accompanying thoughts:

$5 -> Forum access and Mighty Number - These can be provided for free in unlimited quantities but are exclusive and will remain exclusive even after the game comes out. Thus, a value greater than $5 can be attached to this. The 67,226 people who backed this are the only ones who will ever have those benefits.

$20 -> The above and a digital copy of the game - Mighty No. 9 will release at a price of between $20 and $40. Note that the backers receive the game at its minimum cost, with no premium whatsoever.

$40 -> The above, a digital artbook/manual, and a digital soundtrack - These can be made at minimal costs (barring iTunes fees) and on time off from the project, or outsourced to an outside team. Soundtracks over iTunes typically cost $10 to $20, depending on its size. Digital artbooks usually cost the same as their physical, non-limited-edition counterparts, at $20 to $50. (This is the amount I pledged to it.)

$60 -> The above, an in-game "golden hero," and an in-game transformation - The 4,473 people who pledged this amount would require, I'm guessing, a significant amount of programmers' time, but each individual golden hero and transformation would not take that long, especially as they most likely will be identical or very similar to each other. Still, to many, it's considered quite the honor to be on the product one has given money to.

$60 -> Physical copy of the game with manual and a "golden hero" - Retail copies of games currently run at $60. This would be the equivalent of buying the game retail witout having to pay for tax.

$80 -> The digital $60 bundle with beta access - You know the deal here.

From here on out, the rewards are all physical, either exclusive merchandise of the game and its characters or greater direct contributions to the game. Notice that of the 67,226 people who contributed, only 39 (0.045% of all backers) had given $1,000 or more. Mighty No. 9 far exceeded its goal because lots and lots of people donated small amounts rather than a few people donating large amounts. This is because Inafune got the people who would treat this Kickstarter campaign as a pre-order rather than as a donation by pricing the rewards in such a way that they are never paying more than if they had waited it out until the Kickstarter campaign ended.

As a seller, it's a tough balancing act between the seller, who would want as much money from the customers as possible; and the customers, who would want to pay as little as possible.

P.S. I can say that if plans were to go ahead with Gilligan's Island, I can say at least this much: Having worked with her before, Dawn Wells is very easy to work with and is quite undemanding. I don't know about the other actors though.

 

[Naildriver74]

If you think that some of those heavy donors aren't from FB, you'd be sadly mistaken.

Also, you missed the point entirely, which is not surprising. lol Again, your comments were arrogant, but by all means continue.

Enjoy.

I think the Easter Bunny missed someone's house.

 

[p6800]

Hold on, what plans with Gilligan's Island? Would love that table in tpa!