The things Farsight put up with...

[Espy]

So a few weeks ago, the group "PlayStation Pinball League! (Zen Pinball 2/Pinball Arcade)" appeared in the suggestions for me on Facebook. It had about 300 members. I thought "can't do any harm to have some extra friends to compete against", and joined up. When I got access to the group, I realised that it was largely a Zen fanbase, with Pinball Arcade on the sidelines (literally pushed to the side on the group's cover photo), which was fine, though I did notice some comments that were quite anti-Farsight.

Well, today one of the admins got into a huge (one-way) argument with Mike Lindsey on Facebook regarding the timed exclusivity on Xbox One, and has since announced that the group is washing its hands of TPA completely and becoming Zen-only. I knew the Facebook crowd was a tough one, but to see someone so incredibly angry over what is a pretty minor thing in the grand scale of "things worth getting angry about" really hit it home for me. It was about the time that I read the comment "Can't believe some people are actually defending Farsight" that I realised this wasn't my group, and left. You do have to wonder, though - how many TPA fans go on Zen's Facebook page and hurl abuse? It seems to be more the other way around for some reason.

We all know Farsight aren't perfect, but the internet is an ugly place. Farsight, not all your fans are like that! Thanks for your hard work.

 

[wolfson]

maybe there`s a lot of ankle biters in that group,they want everything yesterday.ZEN and TPA are 2 different pods.there`s over 100 tables between the 2.even allowing a bit of art work a few glitches,if your not happy with what we have mate you need your head examined,or take up bullfighting yahoo !!!!

 

[jaredmorgs]

Is why I stay the help away from TPA's Facebook presence. It just makes me angry.

 

[Reagan Dow]

A-men to that!!! Let the Zen people live in their little fantasy world...,after all, most of the Zen tables are pure fantasy based video games w a ball thrown in as an after thought. There is no comparison between the two companies if you are a true pinball fan!! IMHO

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

A-men to that!!! Let the Zen people live in their little fantasy world...,after all, most of the Zen tables are pure fantasy based video games w a ball thrown in as an after thought. There is no comparison between the two companies if you are a true pinball fan!! IMHO

To be quite honest, pinball is pinball. Each individual, including myself, has his or her own taste. I enjoy Zen just as much as Farsight; just let me compete, dangit!

 

[McGuirk]

It's their group, let them run it how they want. To someone who has put hundreds or thousands of dollars into only one of the two "next-gen" consoles though, exclusivity is not a minor thing - particularly when you're the one waiting.

 

[Kratos3]

I guess I don't take pinball video games as seriously as some people do.

 

[David T. Melnick]

Is why I stay the help away from TPA's Facebook presence. It just makes me angry.

___
Some of those opinions are mighty negative eh.

 

[jaredmorgs]

___
Some of those opinions are mighty negative eh.

As merlin says: "look out: trolls about".

 

[shutyertrap]

I agree with pinball be pinball. It reminds me of certain friends of mine that will only drink Coke, and absolutely refuse to drink Pepsi. Yes, they taste a little different, but they act as if it were orange soda or root beer. Or milk. It takes me a few balls in Zen to get used to the physics, and then I stop noticing. There are certain tables that are too off the charts fantasy pinball, so I don't play those. Same as certain tables in TPA I don't touch *cough* Goin' Nuts, Central Park *cough*.

I will say as far as a league thing goes, Zen makes the scoring MUCH easier to keep track of. I love playing and seeing IN GAME that I just passed someone's score, or am about to. And then at the end of the game, watching my name move up some spots without having to wait 5 minutes to then check the leaderboard like in TPA. Wish both games allowed you to set up your own private tourney. That would be awesome for league creation.

 

[IGoFirstIndy]

I will say as far as a league thing goes, Zen makes the scoring MUCH easier to keep track of. I love playing and seeing IN GAME that I just passed someone's score, or am about to. And then at the end of the game, watching my name move up some spots without having to wait 5 minutes to then check the leaderboard like in TPA. Wish both games allowed you to set up your own private tourney. That would be awesome for league creation.

Agree 100%. Zen's high score tracking adds an extra layer of fun to a game. Private tourneys is an awesome idea.

 

[thefly0810]

I believe Farsight deserves a lot of the negative constructive criticism it receives (Not all the vicious, nasty comments). Their lack of consistency is very frustrating. Yes, there is the 30 day clause for season 2 with Microsoft, but that doesn't explain why all of season 3 is currently available for the Xbox One and not on the PS 4. That wasn't part of the deal was it? I ask on Facebook about it but I can't seem to get a response from FS. Does anybody else know?

 

[Nolan]

I love Farsight, their product is one of my favorite games in a long time, but their business practice is not beyond reproach.

That said, all the negativity on the internet tends to drown out legitimate constructive criticism/consumer feedback. I tend to stay away from comment sections as a general rule, and facebook completely. People are so want to be ****s when there is little to no accountability, it almost takes more inner strength to give positive feedback on those forums.

Meanwhile, the same cowards would be kissing ass to here and back if they met the farsight guys in person.

 

[thefly0810]

For me it's not Zen vs TPA, as far as pinball is concerned. When they actually first both released for the PS 4, I actually played TPA a lot more than Zen. Over time though, I shifted over to Zen mainly due to the lack of new tables for TPA. Plus you have a lot less bugs with Zen. And if there are, they tend to be proactive in fixing them. Sure there still can be issues in Zen but I don't run into the issues like I do in TPA. For instance, still after being available for almost a year, I still can't beat my last wizard goal for Black Knight. Every time I go to beat that set high score, the ball gets locked up on the lower play field and I have to reset the game. Now granted, I'm not that greatest pinball player, but it's still frustrating when I'm having a good game and then I have start over again. As far as company versus company goes, Zen runs circles around Farsight with quality control, updates, customer service and customer appreciation.

 

[Jeff Strong]

I gave Farsight a lot of slack for a long time, but I do feel they deserve a fair amount of the criticism they get (not the trolling, but the constructive criticism). Don't get me wrong: their coders are great, but some lf the management decisions have left a lot to be desired. If they didn't have the exclusive licenses then I wouldn't really care, but this is the only shot we have at getting the real deal recreated officially (it's sort of like Madden being the only NFL game on the market, for better or worse), so it's disappointing to see them making some of the decisions they make...for example: prioritizing Ghostbusters and Orbals over polish and features that we've been waiting on for over 2 years. It is truly unfortunate that they haven't added multiplayer yet because, as we discussed in the last podcast, it would give the game a huge shot in the arm. I guess as long as the next kickstarter is a success then who cares though, right?

 

[Slam23]

I'm also a longstanding and patient fan of TPA, and I'll probably will be for a long time if they keep putting tables out. I have to side with Jeff's points above though, I also don't feel that customer support and quality control is up to par. If they would be more open in communication about this, and for example could give accurate time tables for fixing stuff (and keep to them in a reasonable manner), I would feel less frustrated. I also play Zen, and although their presentation is very snappy and polished, I can't get used to the physics. Not to start an argument here about that mind you, it's just my preference. I have had fun with Zen tables and I think it's great that there are multiple companies that cater to us pinheads, we should feel lucky about that. I got through to Farsight support recently about rollover score bugs that frustrate HOF scoring on iOS. Toolinit posted a thread about it at first and listed the problems. Support promised to sent my email through to the people of quality control, so this is a testcase for me how Farsight will handle this. I'm hopeful something will be done with this, but at the same time they haven't had a great track record on these kind of things. I'll report back if something happens. I think it's a good thing that we sound off on this, if some of the more prominent members in this community give measured responses (moderators for example), this could lend some more weight to the issue. So let's hear from them!

 

[Espy]

I believe Farsight deserves a lot of the negative constructive criticism it receives (Not all the vicious, nasty comments). Their lack of consistency is very frustrating. Yes, there is the 30 day clause for season 2 with Microsoft, but that doesn't explain why all of season 3 is currently available for the Xbox One and not on the PS 4. That wasn't part of the deal was it? I ask on Facebook about it but I can't seem to get a response from FS. Does anybody else know?

Probably, yes.

The only reason Farsight are restricted to this clause and Zen get away with it is that Microsoft don't regard Zen as "indie" for whatever reason. Zen would have to do exactly the same thing if it was otherwise. This isn't Farsight's choosing.

And let's not forget Zen game Microsoft exclusivity for four tables for a number of YEARS up until last month! Well, I think those on that group did...

My point was that a whole community completely dropped TPA because of a Facebook argument over something Farsight has very little control over. I found that pretty low.

 

[Heretic]

until the last few months i akways took pride in the fact most of our members were sane reasonable people, people can howl at the moon all they want its nit ginna change much

most of the posts made the last few minths even here have been in the form of complaints or consumer rights or whatever very boring to read on a daily basis.

when casual sales dictate devlopment we as a forum or them as a fookbook gorup have very little say if any at all.

i say we all take what we can get nudge them when we can, get on with talking mad casual pinball and other topics

all this ihve the right to ***** **** annoys me

self entitlement its funny as hell

as most have said i play both purchased rome rhis morning aint bad

 

[wolfson]

my dear mates ,everyone has a point in what you say.tomorow morning im going into the city first thing to pick UP THE CREW.i`ll be driving all over the USA can`t wait.after the prologue I`m going to drive from LA to NEW YORK .I played the beta the other day,it was fantastic.

 

[Jeff Strong]

I hear ya dudes. As hairy said, we really should try to broaden our horizons on this forum with more casual talk. That way the negative stuff doesn't wear us down.

Wolfson, sounds good man. You should post up a review