There will be no EM this season

[Tron]

EM's are mundane and boring they don't sell.

A harsh comment to some but can you expect the guys to make a niche table to appease a few hundred old blokes on a nostalgia trip.

 

[Lord Boron]

EM's are mundane and boring they don't sell.

A harsh comment to some but can you expect the guys to make a niche table to appease a few hundred old blokes on a nostalgia trip.

There are plenty of EMs with a lot more interesting goals than Xenon. But Xenon has a shiny tube going for it. The masses are easily distracted by shiny things.

 

[RSchwantner]

To start, I am not a Farsight decision maker. But looking at this, I can't say I disagree with what has been decided.
Maybe I'm crazy, but when it comes down to it, there really does not seem to be a true demand for an EM.

In the Top 3 poll less than 15% of the votes went to the EM.
Looking at the EMs we already have recreated, our fanbase doesn't seem to like them all that much. In the fan poll, Big Shot is rated 37 out of 54. Central Park is even better at 53. These are your votes.
http://smbhax.com/tpatr/?c=results

I'm not saying we shouldn't do an EM. Just that the numbers say so.

Oh and for the record, I do like EMs. I would put my vote that way if we can get it.

 

[Kratos3]

To start, I am not a Farsight decision maker. But looking at this, I can't say I disagree with what has been decided.
Maybe I'm crazy, but when it comes down to it, there really does not seem to be a true demand for an EM.

In the Top 3 poll less than 15% of the votes went to the EM.
Looking at the EMs we already have recreated, our fanbase doesn't seem to like them all that much. In the fan poll, Big Shot is rated 37 out of 54. Central Park is even better at 53. These are your votes.
http://smbhax.com/tpatr/?c=results

I'm not saying we shouldn't do an EM. Just that the numbers say so.

Oh and for the record, I do like EMs. I would put my vote that way if we can get it.

Stop with the facts!

Fireball is literally the only EM that FS would be able to sell on its own....and it probably will never be higher than the bottom half of overall sales.

 

[RSchwantner]

Stop with the facts!

Facts are a horrible thing to base business decisions on.

Hopefully Fireball will show up one of these days.

 

[JJH516]

There are plenty of EMs with a lot more interesting goals than Xenon. But Xenon has a shiny tube going for it. The masses are easily distracted by shiny things.

Unfortunately, the majority would disagree with you.

My vote for xenon had nothing to do with the tube. In fact, my initial vote was for Fireball before they decided on the 5-6 finalists. Once I saw that Xenon made it in, I knew that voting Fireball would be a wasted vote.

Anyway, I'm 50 years old and even I don't like most EMs. They're just not very fun, and get boring very, very quickly. This is why they continually get outvoted and/or ignored by fans and the company.

 

[SilverBalls]

I'm not saying we shouldn't do an EM. Just that the numbers say so.

Oh and for the record, I do like EMs. I would put my vote that way if we can get it.

You need to rebel against your employer, go submarine and develop an EM!!!! .

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

Facts are a horrible thing to base business decisions on.

Hopefully Fireball will show up one of these days.

...or maybe we could do a spin-off of TPA, only with EM's and call it...well...something other than "Pinball Arcade."

Seriously, EM games needs some justice.

 

[IGoFirstIndy]

To start, I am not a Farsight decision maker. But looking at this, I can't say I disagree with what has been decided.
Maybe I'm crazy, but when it comes down to it, there really does not seem to be a true demand for an EM.

In the Top 3 poll less than 15% of the votes went to the EM.
Looking at the EMs we already have recreated, our fanbase doesn't seem to like them all that much. In the fan poll, Big Shot is rated 37 out of 54. Central Park is even better at 53. These are your votes.
http://smbhax.com/tpatr/?c=results

I'm not saying we shouldn't do an EM. Just that the numbers say so.

Oh and for the record, I do like EMs. I would put my vote that way if we can get it.

Well to be fair, Central Park is not going to appeal to anyone but the most hardcore of pinball players. Big Shot was paired with Scared Stiff and Genie was paired with Attack on Mars so i can't really see you calling either of them unsuccessful as you sold a lot of them. and taking a sample survey on tables that have been out for several years and don't have as much replay value as DMDs isn't hard facts. sales are. you've paired most of your Em's with popular tables so the sales should be stellar.

I think the issue is we were told we were getting an EM this season and then given a poll where it was not specified that this was the only shot for the EM. On top of letting a table that didn't fit the parameters of the rules of the poll in (Xenon not being pre 1980) which then won twice. Had i known that this was it for an EM i would have changed my vote to Fireball as i can't imagine you wouldn't get to Xenon one of these days.

At the end of the day this is why people get frustrated with your company. you guys promise things then pull the rug out from under the promise and just bulldoze on. it'd be better if you were just tight lipped and didn't promise specific tables.

Also padding seasons with an EM doesn't sound like a bad idea considering we're getting into the end of the most wanted and attainable pinball tables left.

Finally, please readdress the iOS season pass issue. TPA is literally the only game on apple affected by this rule. it'd make a whole lot more sense financially to do EM's if the majority of your clientele are on season passes and not buy table by table.

 

[RSchwantner]

I told my girlfriend I'd get her a labrador. Then she told me she wanted a pit.

And the IOS season pass is Apple's call due to a large number of customer complaints.

As I said before, customer feedback as a whole ultimately makes the decisions.
And again, not a decision maker.

 

[soundwave106]

EM's are mundane and boring they don't sell.

They also are more "purist" in a sense, without lots of rules, toys, multiballs, modes, etc. There's not a problem with any of this, of course, but personally, I find Big Shot rather nice in that sense. It's just a game of pinball, nothing more, nothing less. A simple, clear goal without a whole lot of hidden stuff.

The 90s DMD games also tend to have a much longer ball time by design. This doubly so applies to Pinball Arcade for some of their early tables (where I literally have to make sure that multiple hours are available) but even in real life from what I understand, EM tables (as well as early SS) don't have quite the ball time that later machines do. Big Shot is great if I want something quick yet challenging. To be honest if it weren't for the multiball bugs in Firepower I'd play that table a lot more too, that table is a fun challenge that I know will never give you a zillion minute game.

I think the 1960s EMs and back don't fit well in a simulation, they are designed for *really* short ball times in general, are a bit less skill based / more bagatelle luck, and the reward (the "replay") doesn't matter so much on a digital environment. However, there does seem to be a few good 1970s EM pins though that I think would be comparable to Big Shot (I remember not getting bored with Spirit of 1976 for instance). I play Big Shot a lot personally so it would be nice to have something else along those lines. As Spirit is the only EM I've played in real life, though, I have no idea what's a good game and what's not. Heck the only early SS I've played in real life is the Eight Ball Deluxe reissue.

It's a pity that the Visual Pinball installation is a "wee bit technical" and scattered, that's probably the place EM fans will have to turn to, because the EM audience unfortunately is small.

 

[IGoFirstIndy]

I told my girlfriend I'd get her a labrador. Then she told me she wanted a pit.

And the IOS season pass is Apple's call due to a large number of customer complaints.

As I said before, customer feedback as a whole ultimately makes the decisions.

Don't get the dog analogy.

A larger amount of customer complaints than those who were satisfied with the season pass? If I don't like an issue of rolling stone can I then complain and topple their subscription sevice on iOS? What about telltale games! Add a buyer beware and List the companies you are going to make tables of in each season without giving away the table names. Problem solved. Or do you guys now make more money selling individual tables to your largest customer base?

If customer feedback as a whole were actually taken into consideration most of the threads on this forum and the vitriol on your Facebook page wouldn't exist. I'm not looking to get adversarial with you and I appreciate your responding, I'll drop it but to quote Chad Ochocinco this whole topic gets a big "Child please."

 

[JJH516]

...or maybe we could do a spin-off of TPA, only with EM's and call it...well...something other than "Pinball Arcade."

Seriously, EM games needs some justice.

What people fail to realize is that any sort of side project would still cost time and money. If EMs aren't that popular and don't sell, why would they start a seperate project? It just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Bowflex]

I told my girlfriend I'd get her a labrador. Then she told me she wanted a pit.

And the IOS season pass is Apple's call due to a large number of customer complaints.

As I said before, customer feedback as a whole ultimately makes the decisions.
And again, not a decision maker.

I just don't see any "facts" or pure apples to apples evidence to back up the decision. It's all spin. Thus far the only polls that had em's in them were situations where the em was pitted against two solid state tables (popular ones to boot). Of course it is going to lose. If you did a poll of space shuttle, fireball and medieval madness, mm will destroy the other two. As stated, and previously acknowledged by farsight decision making employees, the previous em entries were not sold as standalone tables on all (or any platforms for one) so there is no true sales data. Finally the offerings in the past have not been the more popular or well known tables. This was also acknowledged by farsight decision makers. Farsight has released two tables total from the em's out there.

Honestly the only way to really grasp if the tables would be viable or not would to do new polls asking if the consumer would buy em table x. Yes or no. If the data supports producing that table as being feasible, go ahead and do it. Then check the sales after 2 months. Did the consumers voting put their money where their mouths were or did they pass? If they didn't, then pass.

Fireball got killed in the poll against centaur and eight ball deluxe. Just like it got killed by xenon and paragon. It lost to four newer tables, all were heavily demanded and popular in their own right. That doesn't mean the people who voted for those tables wouldn't buy fireball. It's just a preference when comparing. If I go to a restaurant and order a burger it doesn't mean I wouldn't order a chicken sandwich. I just was in the mood for a burger that day. Or maybe if the option was there I would order both and take half of each for leftovers but I am stuck into a pick one only situation so the burger wins.

I would honestly like to see the farsight stand behind the statement and make one em table. Even though they also stated one would be coming in season 5, if the em fails to sell,or they do some advance research which definitively suggests an em as a losing venture, they are off the hook. I don't want any more em tables if they fail but at least show some integrity to the supporters.

 

[JJH516]

considering we're getting into the end of the most wanted and attainable pinball tables left.

I highly disagree with this. There are tons of cheap, easily obtainable tables left to do. I can easily name at least 40 off the top of my head.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

What people fail to realize is that any sort of side project would still cost time and money. If EMs aren't that popular and don't sell, why would they start a seperate project? It just doesn't make any sense.

Maybe not in the middle of TPA, but at a future time...

 

[IGoFirstIndy]

I highly disagree with this. There are tons of cheap, easily obtainable tables left to do. I can easily name at least 40 off the top of my head.

Key words "most wanted" and "attainable". Also none cheaper than EMs. Lol

 

[Rudy]

If people wanted Fireball they should have voted for Fireball and not voted for Paragon or Xenon, assuming that Fireball was definitely coming.

I remember something similar happening with another poll, possibly the Bally or Stern poll where a clear favourite was overlooked because it was always coming... until it wasn't.

 

[Bowflex]

If people wanted Fireball they should have voted for Fireball and not voted for Paragon or Xenon, assuming that Fireball was definitely coming.

I remember something similar happening with another poll, possibly the Bally or Stern poll where a clear favourite was overlooked because it was always coming... until it wasn't.

I disagree. People should pick their favorite regardless. There was no pick two or pick three option. I would pick all three and would venture a guess that if given the option to pick multiple tables the numbers would flatten out considerably. Fireball would still lose but would probably have 250 votes with ease. Certainly would be an impressive number and far more convincing than the 45 or whatever it has where the company seems to think the other 300 voters would not buy it since they didn't vote for it.

 

[JJH516]

Maybe not in the middle of TPA, but at a future time...

You could argue that I suppose, but it will always come back to sales and popularity, and that's where the debate will end every single time. I'll even take out the sales part, because there's somewhat of an argument there as Bowflex pointed out, but the popularity is indisputable. There's just not enough love for them.

Key words "most wanted" and "attainable". Also none cheaper than EMs. Lol

I can easily fill out the next two season with highly requested tables that are popular and cheap to obtain.

For example:

Season 5

1. Fireball
2. Swords of Fury
3. Rescue 911
4. Mousin' Around
5. F-14 Tomcat
6. Safecracker
7. Paragon
8. Eight Ball Deluxe
9. Grand Prix (Stern)
10. Bone Busters, Inc.

Season 6

1. Fire!
2. Wipe Out
3. TX Sector
4. Fathom
5. Johnny Mnemonic (Sony Deal)
6. World Cup Soccer
7. Indianapolis 500
8. Judge Dredd
9. Sorcerer
10. Cactus Jacks


That's two seasons, done with ease. All highly requested, all easily obtainable for a cheap cost. I think the only questionable one is Judge Dredd, but I wouldn't be too worried about it.

If people wanted Fireball they should have voted for Fireball and not voted for Paragon or Xenon, assuming that Fireball was definitely coming.

I remember something similar happening with another poll, possibly the Bally or Stern poll where a clear favourite was overlooked because it was always coming... until it wasn't.

That would be the Classic Bally poll, where EBD lost.

http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/2982-Vote-for-a-classic-Bally-table!-%28Closed%29