Top 5-10 Pinballs every made - Pro talk

[PET3R]

Can someone help me identify what is wrong with CC and also why it has so low rankings ? This table seems to have one of the best rule-sets in pinball + the features like stand up targets (gunfights and quick-draws) and train. Just like STTNG I absolutely do not mind that it is quick drainer, as I prefer shorter games. When played properly the games can last pretty long and High Noon can be reached pretty easily. But when it comes to scoring there seems to be something not very right. I can't figure out what. I know the bonus can be high but you still need to play well to make it high. It is not like you can only concentrate on the bonus itself and nothing else. Even if it is big, it is still very far from 70m high noon (when played with the highest rank) - not talking about PC play. Similarly to STTNG this table is about accuracy, specially during the showdowns and quick-draws. Experience that no other table can give you. I feel like design and rule set makes it top 5 table, but something is keeping it from there.

 

[PET3R]

Does stacking of Stampede and Gold mine kill the table? What scores are you able to pull on this combined multiball ? Talking real life only.

 

[Kolchak357]

Have you seen or played Cactus Canyon Continued? This might scratch your Cactus Canyon itch.

 

[PET3R]

Have you seen or played Cactus Canyon Continued? This might scratch your Cactus Canyon itch.

It would never in my life come to my mind that if I compare trolls to CC someone comes with a video where trolls are in CC ! Really great stuff Kolchak. It is great for fun however I am not much fan of these mods if you are to play for high score and if they can't be switched off. I prefer table to be as original as it can be. I really don't like "move your car" in Junkyard. As an optional mode, yes really cool, give it to me any day, but I would still prefer if this guy would rather use his energy on fixing up the score issues this table have (bonus is one of them or stacking Stampede and Gold mine). This answered my question which I always had in my mind but never asked - whether roms could be altered to fix the score issues in the games. Wish I knew how to programme - then I would change the code of many roms in my VP to make them perfect tables for me. I would once again have so much fun playing TOTAN (no silly lamp scoring), MM (no early Merlin's shot), WW (no 3x Jackpot that rules the game), RS (No big bonuses that are key of the game), and CC with altered bonus and some other scoring.

 

[jonesjb]

I've played Tales from the Crypt, but much younger before I 'got' pinball rules. Regarding CC, the very specific (and vague) means of obtaining high scores is a problem with the scoring in itself. You can be nailing shots, but not get points. I put CC in this category of too specific rules that really only reward one type of gameplay, along with Victory and Black Rose. It's like painting a blank canvas vs painting a paint by number, the paint by number is too constrained.

For top 5, I agree on TZ, MB STTNG.

Here's where I differ: I also would add the following to the Top 5:

MM: I don't interpret the Merlin rules as an issue/oversight (prematurely hitting it and missing out on 4 ball multiball or trolls). I view it as a no-go zone. Pinball is generally about hitting shots, if you just keep hitting shots and not draining, you will generally do better. With MM, the rules punish this haphazard shooting, rewarding precision (not hitting Merlin) until you have completed your other ramps and orbits... Make sure Trolls are lit then hit Merlin, get a 3 ball multiball, hit the trolls and turn it into a 4 ball multi. I could really go with AFM instead. It's 50:50. I like the AFM theme better, and the side missions, like you've mentioned.

WH20: I think you are overplaying the multiballs with Triple Jackpot as a stand alone scorebreaker, in WH20 multiball strategy should be used in conjunction with moving up through in the rafts. Progressing ramps at higher levels bring values comparable to a single jackpot. Much like STTNG (with the Final Frontier), the Jackpot value is directly related to how many rafts you have completed. You really only get 2 shots at multiball (yes you can get more, but it is very very hard to relight); this means you have the risk/reward consideration, do you hit the multiball with jackpot early? Or wait until later in the game when you've stacked up your rafts and can really make it pay off? I view the raft progression as more like a priming for the multiballs (similar to STTNG). Throw in the 5X the field against some zen raft progression and it rivals the triple jackpot. The 5X is only a very limited time, so it's not a gamebreaker. And it is repeatable, so if you and I are playing and I ruin my 5X Field, but you are able to leverage it for some high scoring. I'll get another shot and have a chance to come back. What do you think?

BONUS: Shadow: But it isn't in Pinball arcade, so...

 

[trunchbull]

Not being snarky or anything, but I'd love to hear why people go bananas over TZ. Maybe I'm just not good enough or it's not my game but I've never had much fun playing it. Feels like a waste of a license.

 

[soundwave106]

Not being snarky or anything, but I'd love to hear why people go bananas over TZ. Maybe I'm just not good enough or it's not my game but I've never had much fun playing it. Feels like a waste of a license.

The real pinball is a challenging game that has a very deep ruleset (particularly for the time). The wizard mode is fun and there's a lot of neat little things here and there (like the Powerball, Battle the Power, the gumball machine).

TPA TZ is tuned too easy unfortunately, and many people simply are not fans of Lawlor's stop-start style to begin with.

 

[jonesjb]

I enjoy TZ because of:

The balanced scoring
The toys (Powerball, battle the power)
The theme
The flow
Multiple flippers
Deep ruleset
Modes that can run concurrently
A cool wizard mode

 

[Indy_Bones]

Have to say that I'm with Trunchbull ref TZ, I just don't get why people rave about the table, as pointed out it's often a very disjointed playing experience, there's a nasty rebound from the switch in the middle which can cost you if not careful with flipper control, the playing board is simply TOO busy and many of the other modes are either uninteresting or tough to access.

It may well fit within the constraints of the topic in regards to not having any massive scoring imbalances and similar, but in terms of actual fun and flow, there's at least a dozen other tables I'd rather play tbh, and that includes the recently ousted TOM which would probably be in my top 3 along with MB and Scared Stiff (even if it's too easy).

 

[PET3R]

... there's at least a dozen other tables I'd rather play tbh, and that includes the recently ousted TOM which would probably be in my top 3 along with MB and Scared Stiff (even if it's too easy).

I was actually going to write we need to revise TOM as I felt we have unfairly thrown it out of top 10. It can be real fun, just have to have more talk from the scoring point of view, but it is very balanced and solid table. Not writing much in a while as trying to spend my free time more by playing each of the tables to really get more into it, to be able to better judge. AFM is really growing on me, while I still can't get into MM despite giving it so many chances. WW seems to be my most favourite table so far, but unfortunately this is in terms of fun, when it comes to scoring that 3x jackpot kills it all. The more I play TAF the more magnets start to annoy me and the more I am finding my self just go straight from mode to mode not even playing them. I am starting to understand why TZ is more popular. Wizard is also much better than in TAF. SS starting to be boring after while. I am starting to get into the point in STTNG where I find my self restarting straight after 1st mode if I am not awarded the crystal as I am aware, if I want to beat my score, I have to be successful in each of the modes. I think I prefer RBION in this case where if you don't collect letter, nothing happens as you going to have another chance.

 

[jonesjb]

Pet3r, told you about the TAF magnets! Regarding WW/WH20, a 3X the multiball at raft 2=$36MM, this is almost the same as getting 1X the multi-ball at Wet Willies (around $30MM). Playing well, getting ahead in the rafts is critical in doing well. You can't just do well on a multiball at the beginning and win against someone who has been sniping away the hazard and moving up in the rafts. This is similar to STTNG in that your good gameplay throughout the game pays off in the end. WH2O gameplay is all about hitting the hazard lights (right up your alley with your snooker analogy), it has great flow and is one of my favorite tables! What are your thoughts?

 

[PET3R]

I do understand what are you trying to say about the rafts and the jackpot, but at the end it comes all down to that jackpot. You will reach 12th raft to build up that jackpot, but at the end if you don't hit the 3x jackpot you might also just restart the whole game as your score is going to be only 1/3 or 2/3 of what it could have been. We both can have an amazing game where we hit 16 rafts, if I miss the 3x jackpot there is going to be massive score difference between you and me. And all of that is only because of that 3 consecutive successful shots during the multi-ball. If you miss this 3 shots it's like loosing a game. All effort in vain.

To your MM: We talking here again about one shot that decides whether you win or loose. I understand what you are saying but this is just too punishing. It is not needed and only harms the game.

 

[Crooker]

I've found the best way to collect artifacts in STTNG is via the video mode. There are certain missions such as Q and Battle that are drain monsters. Search the universe can be good if you play the shots in order as you can collect 2 artifacts when played well. Selecting light lock or video mode at the start or after a drain is the way to go. Borg multi-ball is very lucrative on long games. Billion jackpots are quite achievable. Keep hitting that right half orbit and get your bonus multiplier up and light locks for Borg multi-ball.
As I said before I find TOM just out and out a fun table to play. Yes the illusions are tedious and the reliance on getting 8x bonus every ball can be frustrating. Multi-Ball and Tiger Saw jackpot are fun and good scoring when played well. Pretty satisfying spelling Magic Theatre if you didn't stack it with midnight madness(then it's ridiculously easy).

 

[PET3R]

Have scored just over 1 billion points in WW on ios (my personal best. Had 2 multi balls and in neither of them I have managed to hit 3x jackpot (in second one not even 2x). I have managed to hit around 10 Jackpots, so this has cost me at least 500 million points. This is what I am talking about. Frustration at it's best. That is 1/3 of my final score. At least I have managed to score Vacation Jackpot in that game That game is pure fun.

 

[vikingerik]

I was actually going to write we need to revise TOM as I felt we have unfairly thrown it out of top 10. It can be real fun, just have to have more talk from the scoring point of view, but it is very balanced and solid table.

TOM's point of unbalance is the bonus. Even on real machines, that dominates things. It's not uncommon to score a billion worth of bonus, more than even the wizard mode. And it's subject to luck as the bonus rollovers are difficult to access.

Besides that, TOM is skill testing... if you consider having the discipline to catch and time out the illusions to be skill. A game should never make its central feature not worth playing.

 

[jonesjb]

Agreed on TOM, it shouldn't be in the top 5 for this thread's purpose. I've played MM some more, and now that I'm noticing the Merlin issues, I'm finding it annoying. I'm going to defer to AFM instead.

Why isn't Lights, Camera Action not mentioned for top 5 yet?

 

[PET3R]

I've played MM some more, and now that I'm noticing the Merlin issues, I'm finding it annoying. I'm going to defer to AFM instead.

There you go. I was playing AFM today in the morning, managed to nearly double my high score ending up with 65 billion on ios. I have ruled the universe twice and for the third one I already had Super Jackpot and Total Annihilation goal spotted. I do not find the SJ and 5 way combo annoying any more. It is actually not difficult to achieve. The scoring is linear until first Rule the Universe but after that it can go wild.
As I was really happy with my result and super hyped for me being in that right concentration mood I immediately switched to MM to see how that goes. I would be hitting ramps quite well, but then trolls trolls trolls, drain drain drain. Tried again, tried again. I have feeling the MM would be much better game without the trolls in overall. They slow down the game, the flow is not right when you hitting the trolls, it is just something I never look forward to doing. At the end I gave up and just switched it off.
Later afternoon, I tried playing again AFM, where once again I enjoyed the flow, managed to once again rule the universe and match my previous record of 35 billion. In this game I have discovered something I did not know about Strobe multiball. I used to think before that this is just low scoring multiball that is not much worth playing and since you can't play anything else during this moment I would sometime drain one ball on purpose so that I can go back to my game. Well today I discovered that there is certain number of times you need to hit the shield to be awarded with the extra ball. As I said I did not know this before, but from now on I will always play strobe mutliball as best as I can to earn that extra ball. To me AFM has a huge variety of modes/goals and very interesting rules that makes the game pure fun, with very balanced scoring. When I switch to MM I am missing all these additional modes/goals and I really have big difficulty to understand why is it no.1 way before AFM.

 

[jonesjb]

I did not know that about Strobe, I had a similar opinion to you... that it was a low scoring multi (I'm sure it looks really cool in person though). Can you complete rule the universe multiple times in AFM, I don't recall? I thought once you complete the saucers it remains open for the rest of the game?

 

[PET3R]

WW - had terible game today where on the third ball had only 100 million. Just before the end I was lucky to get 5x playfield before locking the last ball. 3 seconds - 3 shots - 300 million. I still managed to hit one more 5x Jackpot making it total 400 million for the multiball. My final score was 500 million, which is half of my personal best I scored yesterday. My game lasted about 5 minutes compared to very long one yesterday.
I can totally agree on this being a very fun and addictive game, but jonesjb you have to agree with me this has not much to do with rafts, as the scoring purely depends on 5x playfield and 3 successful shots during the multiball.

TAF - this table seems to be so balanced I am starting to feel that strategy of not playing the modes (timing them out) just to reach wizard mode and getting those 50 million does not pay off. It seems that playing the modes well can easily match or even give you more than 50 million. Well this is a good news as I did not like modes that would be timed out. This table does not seem to have any goal, apart from not draining and keep the ball in play. I think there is nothing wrong about it, and it is very interesting to have a table where you don't feel like you "have to" do or achieve something. You just trying to see what opportunities are there for you at the moment and trying to do something out of them. You know rather than getting the most points out of them, not draining the ball is more important and so here you have to balance. Do I hit that last tunnel for 15 million and risk draining, or do I rather switch another mode and/or hit some 5x swamps. The magnets really annoys me here, but I am starting to like the rest of the table, more than before, knowing as long as I keep the ball in play I will be fine. No any other pressure, just collecting the points on the way.

 

[PET3R]

I did not know that about Strobe, I had a similar opinion to you... that it was a low scoring multi (I'm sure it looks really cool in person though). Can you complete rule the universe multiple times in AFM, I don't recall? I thought once you complete the saucers it remains open for the rest of the game?

Completing the saucers (conquer Mars) only completes one goal of the Wizard mode. After you have played the wizard mode, this is the only goal that stays lit, and so you don't have to play the saucers again which is brilliant rule. Therefore second time you are much closer to rule the universe as all you need are: SJ, 5 combo, super jets, Martian multiball and Total Annihilation to play it again.

There is not one rule I can think of I would change or do differently. It is complex table but not overcomplicated. Still very easy to follow.