TPA needs physics like this?

[SilverBalls]

What do you guys think? To me they are pretty spot on.

Source (Groni pinball):
http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=33423

 

[PiN WiZ]

Very impressive! I wouldn't expect anything less from Groni.

 

[Robert Misner]

so far the flipper and material physics tuning has been really rough with VPX but if they can zero in on some good values it could really be stellar and help alot of authors fine tune their tables.
this looks great btw

 

[Slam23]

Wow, Groni back in business! That alone would tempt me to have a go at the new VPX! For me he is the undisputed king of VP physics.

 

[Stuzz]

If any other pinball game/table used any other physics than what they were designed for, they'd all be broken.

I don't want to play TAF on the Moon. But, I'm all for a table designed there.

 

[SilverBalls]

If any other pinball game/table used any other physics than what they were designed for, they'd all be broken.

I don't want to play TAF on the Moon. But, I'm all for a table designed there.

I don't follow what you are saying - can you elaborate please?

By realistic physics, I meant behave like a real table, or like a real AFM in this case.

 

[shutyertrap]

Am I the only one that can't tell physics unless I'm actually playing it?

I do think if FarSight can ever get ball spin going, people's tune would change towards how realistic the physics are. I play many of these tables in real life, and the one thing I can say is no two tables play the same. Monster Bash and AFM are in a lot of the league homes I play in, and none of them play like the other. Tricks I use in Twilight Zone actually translate fairly well to real world play, but bounces I'm used to for Medieval Madness never seem to work on real machines. I started taking note, and it really does seem to be ball spin causing the differences.

 

[Kolchak357]

I'd like Pro Pinball physics, but I'd like more than table a year. So I'll stick with TPA and hope they continue to improve with time.

 

[relaxation]

So far I saw, the flippers bend down when there's a force acted upon them when not engaged, post-passing is a contested skill which makes room for cradle separation to exist.

The lighting in VP must have changed recently? It's missing ambient occlusion too, the flashers are showing up/clipping on the trim. I like that the jewels have details and continue to be readable.. and not have lens flares on their graphics because they may know what 3-point lighting is when photographing something without their cameras flash being on.

 

[SilverBalls]

The PM5 VP physics which VP10 has along with other configurable physic params, really have transformed VP in my opinion. The ball spin really adds something so if TPA could nail that to, along with increased difficulty then it will be a vast improvement. I am really put off by the faked drop catches in TPA - they happen way to often. In real life I am too crappy a player to pull it off that many times.

The various VP10 tables created through the beta phase have varied greatly in terms of physics and lighting. There were some really stand out tables where the gameplay really felt like a real pin. It is certainly needs skill to tune a table properly so I am sure Farsight have the same challenges. With VP10 there are authors that seem to have nailed this: Tommy, RoboCop, JP TOTANs to name a few. This Groni AFM is looking good too. True you can't judge properly without playing, but comparing the ball behaviour with many PAPA videos it seems realistic looking to me at least .

As I said the lighting is down to each authors taste, although many parameters such as room lighting, bloom by the user can be adjusted which can transform the look of a table. One benefit TPA DX11 had over VP9 was a better feeling of 3D, but VP10 now brings this in my opinion.

 

[Ben Logan]

The PM5 VP physics which VP10 has along with other configurable physic params, really have transformed VP in my opinion. The ball spin really adds something so if TPA could nail that to, along with increased difficulty then it will be a vast improvement. I am really put off by the faked drop catches in TPA - they happen way to often. In real life I am too crappy a player to pull it off that many times.

The various VP10 tables created through the beta phase have varied greatly in terms of physics and lighting. There were some really stand out tables where the gameplay really felt like a real pin. It is certainly needs skill to tune a table properly so I am sure Farsight have the same challenges. With VP10 there are authors that seem to have nailed this: Tommy, RoboCop, JP TOTANs to name a few. This Groni AFM is looking good too. True you can't judge properly without playing, but comparing the ball behaviour with many PAPA videos it seems realistic looking to me at least .

As I said the lighting is down to each authors taste, although many parameters such as room lighting, bloom by the user can be adjusted which can transform the look of a table. One benefit TPA DX11 had over VP9 was a better feeling of 3D, but VP10 now brings this in my opinion.

Ball spin has certainly made an improvement in VP10 physics -- and it seems to be totally missing from TPA. Playing a round of Twilight Zone, for example, and watching the 8 ball float around the table really reveals how lacking in real world backspin the TPA physics are.

I do like TPA's flipper physics. The live- catch is too easy, but I like that you can tap pass and cradle separate with (in my opinion) greater realism than on VP.

I'd love to see backspin implementation in TPA, more realism in difficulty with live catching and ramp shooting.

I know that at one time TPA ramps had a vacuum effect: shoot within 20 percent tolerance of either side of ramp and TPA will vacuum it in and up the ramp for you (to keep players from getting frustrated). Is this still the case?

I'm no pro player, but TPA seems so easy and long-playing in comparison with both VP and real pinball, something seems awry!

Could we have a "tournament mode" with ball backspin, harder ramp shots, and more difficult live-catch? I'd love a free upgrade along those lines, but I'd even pay for it. I know pro-mode disables extra balls and stuff, but that doesn't affect gameplay experience.

What do you guys think? Would TPA devs be open to implementing such options as a free or paid upgrade?

 

[shutyertrap]

Ben, difficulty and tournament mode have been requested since year one. Myself and Jeff Strong asked Bobby about it in his office. The response has always been "it's something we'd like to do ", which is FarSight speak for 'there's a bunch of other stuff taking priority'. Often to the extent of things like this never going beyond conversation.

 

[Ben Logan]

Thanks shutyertrap. I searched but couldn't find much recent discussion on physics and difficulty. Maybe I should search harder.

The TPA tables are looking so good these days, and the flipper physics are coming along nicely enough that I'm longing to play more TPA (in addition to my daily VP addiction). But the physics! It's just too easy!

When playing VP10, sometimes I feel like my real world pinball game actually improves from practice. When I play TPA on the other hand, I fear I'm throwing my real pinball game off. That's a serious (first world problem!) concern for me.

Don't get me wrong: I love TPA. It's getting good enough that it's time for it to move from being a video game, toward more of an actual pinball simulation. A few ball and flipper physics tweaks would do the trick. And turn off the ramp vacuum, of course!

Could we start a petition and rally the troops?

 

[relaxation]

I do like TPA's flipper physics. The live- catch is too easy, but I like that you can tap pass and cradle separate with (in my opinion) greater realism than on VP.

I think you mean flick pass and what cradle separation on TPA?

The only table goal that demands reliable cradle separation on TPA is MSF when attempting the 150M spinner orbit, I've attempted that goal hundreds of times, and I thought I sucked at getting the right (quickest, cleanest) flick (separation).. I recorded the games and there was two outcomes for the same 3 frame interaction. I thought that was making this a game of chance, however when trying set up a macro to test/record/transpose ball paths from a trap it turns out the ball speed varies from a complete stop.

So if anyone wants to attempt specific shots like this you'll have to do it visually and not from muscle memory, I'm not sure if I could ever spot a 1? frame movement I may or may not need to notice to get a clean separation on MSF.

 

[Ben Logan]

Yes - flick pass is probably a better description - when the ball is rolling toward the flipper tip and you just give it the slightest little tap to clear the center drain gap. Cradle separation during multiball isn't perfect, but I can get something closer to it than on VP so far. Maybe I'm being spoiled, but the semi-recent TPA improvements have me wanting even more realism in terms of difficulty and physics.

 

[vikingerik]

The live- catch is too easy

It's more like the live-catch is too perfect. It instantly sets the ball speed to exactly zero every time. There's never a near-miss when you almost get all of the ball's momentum but it still bounces or trickles just a little bit.

I know that at one time TPA ramps had a vacuum effect: shoot within 20 percent tolerance of either side of ramp and TPA will vacuum it in and up the ramp for you (to keep players from getting frustrated). Is this still the case?

The older tables that had the ramp-vacuum (Creature, Medieval Madness) still do, but newer tables don't. High Speed's ramp (mid season 3) seems to be the last real example, Dracula borderlinely so, and ramps have been tuned pretty well since then.

Thanks shutyertrap. I searched but couldn't find much recent discussion on physics and difficulty.

It hasn't been recent because we pretty much gave up on the topic.