What if TPA doesn't get more rights to Williams tables?

[Sean DonCarlos]

I didn't know that. I thought the actual company was bust and they just acted as license holders. I stand corrected. Still don't think it's anything to worry about, though.

Nope, they're still around, as WMS Gaming, although it looks like they're now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Scientific Gaming Corporation. Maybe this change of ownership has something to do with the licensing issues - it could be the people FarSight was working with are no longer there or have new positions...but this is just wild speculation on my part.

 

[Man-Machine]

What would happen if, is that they would try to produce their own tables and see if they sell. It will happen anyway.

 

[shutyertrap]

The biggest (only?) threat would be that some other video pinball company jumped in to outbid FarSight on the licences...

But there is nothing for another company to bid on...FarSight holds the rights to all the tables they selected off a master list of every Williams and Bally table ever made. That can't be taken away from them. So even if lost (which they won't) the license to Williams and Bally, a table like High Speed which FS hasn't made would not be able to be made by a new company because FS has the license for that table. Weird, I know, but that is the reality.

As Sean pointed out, Williams makes slot machines. I believe this is the reason FS couldn't license the Williams name outright, as that would give them rights to make things outside the purvey of only pinball.

 

[Rudy Yagov]

I think it's Farsight simply putting the rest of PHoF onto TPA. Remember, there were TWO PHoFs - the Gottlieb Collection and the Williams/Bally Collection.

Most of the WMS ones have been done, but very very few of the Gottlieb, so I think they're simply trying to right that boat because while there aren't many, there are still af ew Gottlieb fans.

Though I too admit to not liking much of season 2 because of it. I did give them a try, but wow, they didn't hold my interest at all - Teed Off maybe held my interest the longest, but even then it's a week.

And we really need a new way of organizing tables. It's getting unwieldy.

There's only one Gottlieb from PHOF left after this month. There's two Williams left.

 

[Gorgar]

There's only one Gottlieb from PHOF left after this month. There's two Williams left.

Actually there are three Gottliebs:

Ace High
Play-Boy
Strikes N Spares

 

[goforthewall]

Actually there are three Gottliebs:

Ace High
Play-Boy
Strikes N Spares

And there is a table file for "Ace High" in the game's assets, so it's pretty likely it will come...

 

[goo_back]

But there is nothing for another company to bid on...FarSight holds the rights to all the tables they selected off a master list of every Williams and Bally table ever made. That can't be taken away from them. So even if lost (which they won't) the license to Williams and Bally, a table like High Speed which FS hasn't made would not be able to be made by a new company because FS has the license for that table. Weird, I know, but that is the reality.

As Sean pointed out, Williams makes slot machines. I believe this is the reason FS couldn't license the Williams name outright, as that would give them rights to make things outside the purvey of only pinball.

I didn't realize that's what they still did.

Do you think there's ever a chance they might get back into the pinball world? Slot machines doesn't seem too far off.

 

[Rudy Yagov]

Actually there are three Gottliebs:

Ace High
Play-Boy
Strikes N Spares

Play-Boy and Strikes N Spares were essentially just bonus games. Play-Boy is flipperless and will definitely not be remade, and SNS is a bowling redemption game that uses pinball mechanics, not a real pinball machine.

 

[Crawley]

If the Williams license is lost I would hope they would ramp up on releasing original tables.

I don't get the sense too many people are keen on this here but I am. I know Pat Lawlor was tagged for creating an original table for the initial Pro Pinball Kickstarter before it failed. I think it would be neat to get someone like a Lawlor or a Richie to design a virtual table for Pinball Arcade, particularly if its designed like it could be a real table rather than a Zen Pinball table.

 

[shutyertrap]

I didn't realize that's what they still did.

Do you think there's ever a chance they might get back into the pinball world? Slot machines doesn't seem too far off.

Considering they are allowing someone else to make new Medieval Madness tables, I doubt it. All their designers are over at Stern or doing their own thing. I'm not sure they even hold the patents to their own parts anymore.

 

[Deltaechoe]

I didn't realize that's what they still did.

Do you think there's ever a chance they might get back into the pinball world? Slot machines doesn't seem too far off.

Unless pinball makes a HUGE comeback, I don't think it's going to happen. Pinball machines are extraordinarily expensive to manufacture so unless there is a high demand for them I don't think WMS is going to make them anymore. WMS makes WAY more money in the casino/gambling business than they would making pinball. This is why they're usually fine with lincensing out deals, since it's pinball profit without the crazy manufacturing overhead so unless another company outbids farsight, I really wouldn't worry about not having more Williams and Bally tables.

 

[Gorgar]

Play-Boy and Strikes N Spares were essentially just bonus games. Play-Boy is flipperless and will definitely not be remade, and SNS is a bowling redemption game that uses pinball mechanics, not a real pinball machine.

I still think Play-boy and Strikes n Spares have as good of a chance of making it in TPA as Jive Time. Especially Strikes N Spares since they said on Facebook way back when that they planned on doing it eventually.

 

[Bowflex]

Farsight has stated that Playboy and Strikes and Spares will not be coming (although that is a reversal of having previously announced Strikes and Spares). After Ace High, the last reissue will hopefully be Sorcerer. Without the WMS license, the game would probably just migrate away from table reissues. Unless they can start making modern Stern/JJP games, I wouldn't see Gottlieb/older Stern tables driving adequate sales. They would still be able to keep selling WMS tables that are currently out until whatever they have contracted expires, and then all of them would disappear.
I could see them moving to original tables if the license was lost but who knows how they will sell. Fortunately it should be a non-issue as I am sure the relationship has been good up to this point and I imagine both sides wish to continue.

 

[Gorgar]

Farsight has stated that Playboy and Strikes and Spares will not be coming (although that is a reversal of having previously announced Strikes and Spares). After Ace High, the last reissue will hopefully be Sorcerer.

That's a real bummer, if true. I was really looking forward to seeing people complain about them.

Do you have a source where Farsight confirms that they will not be doing these tables?

 

[Bowflex]

That's a real bummer, if true. I was really looking forward to seeing people complain about them.

Do you have a source where Farsight confirms that they will not be doing these tables?

S&S was listed on their official materials and later removed. I definitely read or heard it somewhere but I can't find the reference. I want to say Bobby King stated that they would not be doing those tables along with Jive Time and Sorcerer. Then in a later podcast it was mentioned that they were reconsidering Sorcerer after it had won a best in show award at a pinball expo they attended and a large amount of positive feedback for it.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

S&S was listed on their official materials and later removed. I definitely read or heard it somewhere but I can't find the reference. I want to say Bobby King stated that they would not be doing those tables along with Jive Time and Sorcerer. Then in a later podcast it was mentioned that they were reconsidering Sorcerer after it had won a best in show award at a pinball expo they attended and a large amount of positive feedback for it.

This is essentially the story I remember. All three tables were on the chopping block, but Sorcerer may or may not have won a reprieve.

 

[MontanaFrank]

This is essentially the story I remember. All three tables were on the chopping block, but Sorcerer may or may not have won a reprieve.

That's what I remember too Sean. I hope Sorcerer gets a reprieve.

 

[goo_back]

Why did they axe Sorcerer originally? Popularity?

 

[Bowflex]

Why did they axe Sorcerer originally? Popularity?

Difficult to say. I know that Farsight wasn't keen on it and they implied that in the case of Jive Time that it wasn't their decision to include it, rather it was pushed on them. Maybe this was the case with Sorcerer as well? I'm sure that if they do Sorcerer, it will be better than the PHOF version (which I personally enjoyed quite a bit). I do know that on these boards, the initial discussion about remakes was a pretty decent number of people stated they could do without it (and to a lesser extent Gorgar).

 

[Jeff Strong]

I'll throw in another vote for Sorcerer.