What we have become

[Sean DonCarlos]

Even Sean and the Farsight Dev staff have been know to let their hair down there [in the chat room].

Is my hair too fussy here? Trying to balance between the "maintainer-of-law-and-order" and the "sociable-fan-of-pinball" sides is far more challenging than I thought it would be when I accepted the moderatorship. If I've fallen off the wagon (on either side of the line), someone please let me know.

I went full pessimist due to the following:

Xbox 360
Lack of meaningful bug fixes on iOS (where is rom emulation for BK? Promised ages ago).
Disappointing PS4 lighting

After a year of talking about this stuff, you tend to go sour because you discover your words are absolutely powerless.

It's not just me, the entire forum has a general lack of enthusiasm but it's not our fault, it's Farsights.

Karl would have to be the one to tell us if posts like this are what he had in mind.

As a moderator, I tend to let posts like this stand. Most of us here are aware that it's not all sweetness and light in TPA-land; in fact there are 35+ master issues lists dedicated to chronicling TPA's many imperfections. And as others and I have said, an endless stream of "rah-rah" cheerleading posts would be both boring to read and useless in helping FarSight determines what gets fixed. So while the post above is pushing it a bit (and I'll get to what makes it so in a second), at least Mark gives reasons for his pessimism. People may or may not find his reasons valid, but there's enough here to start an honest discussion. Even the line about our lack of enthusiasm being FarSight's fault, while not something I completely agree with, at least has an arguable premise behind it: if the game were better-made, people might be more excited about it. And it's not a personal attack on anyone.

So that's why a lot of what would generally be considered negative posts are allowed to exist here. And incidentally, our words are not powerless: Our mass outcry over T2's skull is what prompted FarSight to have it remodeled, and many bugs have been squashed and features added based on input from forum members. Many of these changes had their origins in negative posts for the simple reason that for FarSight to be aware of the issue, someone had to complain about it first. So the moderation team has been generally hesitant to issue any blanket rules/guidelines against negativity per se (although as PiN WiZ indicated earlier in this thread, we have talked about it), despite the fact that we too sometimes wish for a more positive atmosphere.

But when negativity crosses the line into attacks on the developers' and/or other members' motives and characters, or when threads reopen longstanding arguments that the other mods and I know from experience aren't going to end well, that's when we get into thread closure, post deletion, and in extreme cases a swing of the banscythe.

 

[Timelord]

"Is my hair too fussy here? Trying to balance between the "maintainer-of-law-and-order" and the "sociable-fan-of-pinball" sides is far more challenging than I thought it would be when I accepted the moderatorship. If I've fallen off the wagon (on either side of the line), someone please let me know."

Naw, you're a bud...

I'd PM ya, bro. I'd never air that in public.

Just trying to point out how the Chat Room is the place to talk trash, not TPAF.

Timelord ...

 

[kimkom]

Nicely put in to perspective, Sean.

When quoting Mark's 'our words are powerless' thing, I didn't quite believe that to be the case. I think improvements are being made by FarSight, whenever possible, based on TPA Fans comments. Only a couple of hours ago, I noticed that the flippers in Tee'd Off had been re-worked, in line with our comments.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Good post Sean. I have to be honest that I am disappointed with certain aspects of the game and I think it's important to voice that because, as you pointed out with the T2 skull, if we had never expressed our "negative" feedback then certain improvements would never have been made. It's just important to keep a balance. We can't pretend that every thing is peaches and cream, because that would be dishonest, but when we see something that can be improved we can share that feedback in a constructive and respective way, which will hopefully help improve the game.

 

[night]

Oh and fire the colorblind pre-production dude who keeps scaring us with his pink screen shots.

 

[francis247uk]

Do think mods need to use their power a bit more where necessary to remove posts/threads/ban users.

Our hope is that we can maintain the forum as is and hopefully not have to turn to laying out specific guidelines for our members to follow.

Surely thats the nature of an online message board unfortunately, it will need more policing as it gets bigger with more users and posts to deal with? Will ultimately turn into a Facebook free for all otherwise!

Even with the negative posts still my favourite Pinball message board!

 

[Heretic]

tired to quote multiple post

to answer a query and statement


sean - give over ya tart some of us talk more than others, so your more formal side is shiney

timelord - talk trash in my bar you needa go through me, or just speak english, trolls domt you dare

 

[brakel]

I always try to post like I'm shooting the bull over a beer at a pub. Emphasis on "a" beer, not twelve! I recently posted on a now closed thread that someone should be a little more grateful and a little less entitled. That statement was directly intended as a response to someone being a bit demanding on Jeff. As if Jeff worked on this forum for a living. But the sentiment could be applied to quite a few posts.

 

[androidlove]

I plan to post something positive when Haunted House arrives. I would tell you that I haven't bought a table since Pin Dot Bot, but I don't want to be too negative

 

[spoonman]

Ok. I'm all caught up.
I like just about everything I've read in here.

Positive is a good thing for a fan page (obviously).

I know I caught some flack for posting a video of the broken PS3 leaderboards in my Sig, but I like to think I helped get the word out there. I certainly wasn't doing it to hurt Farsight and when it was fixed I praised them and promptly removed it.

I am pretty passionate about gaming and I want to see games I love be the best they can be. I hope you guys don't see this as being negative. I'll admit I've had a few rage posts here and there, but I'm working on chilling out more and enjoying what I have.

I've been living with very bad chronic back/leg pain for many years now so if something gets on my nerves it literally does just that. So if I've rubbed anyone the wrong way just know it's nothing personal.

 

[mmmagnetic]

There is something about Pinball Arcade that just fills my heart with joy. I just recently realized that sitting on my couch in the middle of the night, holding up a glowing rectangle to my face and blasting martians, riding rafts, feeling the power of the wind or being a party pooper is the single best gaming experience in my life so far.

i guess I'm just too fascinated by being able to play these huge, blinking, noisy machines on a machine smaller than a magazine. TPA is still such a young product, and whatever problems occur, they never make me seriously angry, because I'm just incredibly thankful that TPA was born during a time when traditional videogames started to lose me completely.

And really, whatever drama might occur here, it is nothing compared to the big gaming sites out there. Farsight are guys with their hearts in the right place, with passion and dedication. Look at things like eroding consumer rights, gimmicky features, cynical free-to-play models, series being milked dry... TPA is a shining gem in a landscape full of drama and exploitation.

 

[lettuce]

I guess this was bound to happen though, the change in the 'fung shway' of the forum. In the start there was only the hardcore members who populated this forum and we were all over joyed that TPA became a real product as it had its fair share of doubters, over the 14+ months TPA has become a lot more popular, A LOT! and thus has this forum. Because of this there is no longer just the hardcore members here, there is a wide selection of members now and this is where i believe this tainted negative vibe of the forum is stemming from.

These not so hardcore member just see everything that is wrong with Farsight, and to be fair are right to air their concerns this is a forum after. I too get pissed because there are STILL bugs that are in the very first few launch tables that FS know about (as its be talked about enough) but seem to be unwilling to fix or talk about the reason they are not being fixed yet.

I am disappointed with certain aspects of the game and I think it's important to voice that because, as you pointed out with the T2 skull, if we had never expressed our "negative" feedback then certain improvements would never have been made.

This is one thing were i shake my head at some of the things FS put out, just a few things recently, who in their right mind looked at that model in the first place and thought that would be exceptable, who in their right mind looked at the HH pictures they posted up and thought they were exceptable and no one would bring up concerns about either of these issue....maybe im just a perfectionist. First impressions count for a lot, and to be fair FS should of noticed that the T-800 head didnt look right, it shouldn't be down to us to kick up and bring it to their attention...id like to think FS would have redone this model if no one said anything about it......but i dont think they would have.......just look at the Monster Bash models!

All this said there is a lot, A LOT more positives to FarSight and TPA than there is negatives and i believe FS have now turned a corner, the 360 debacle should be sorted out by Q4 2013, PS4, Wii UPC versions coming out are all positive things!. We are heading towards a really exciting time now as the known 're-released' tables are coming to an end, soon enough we will have 2 brand new tables each month that have never been digitally recreated before, that mystery in itself has got be stoked for the future of pinball arcade...and this forum!!!

 

[Baron Rubik]

We are heading towards a really exciting time now as the known 're-released' tables are coming to an end, soon enough we will have 2 brand new tables each month that have never been digitally recreated before

From the new Farsight website this week "2012 - 2014".

Does anyone know if this was a mistake yet? Or put on for a different reason. I haven't seen Farsight comment.

 

[Captain B. Zarre]

It means that 2014 will be the year where the remaining console versions of TPA (Wii U, PS4, XBONE, 360?) will be released.

 

[karl]

Hey. This thread is turning into a lot of people justifying why they are not always positive in their voicing.

We all get that there is challenges with the game and that there is room for improvement in every aspect of it. Criticism is a good thing and even blowing off some steam once in a while can be (in some cases ) a good thing,
but this had nothing to do with my original reason for posting. (it was not about "Why", more about how you do it and how often)

Just once in a while try to enjoy the game, and talk about what you enjoy about it, what makes you excited for the future of this game, etc, etc. It is very easy to jump on the critic train but you will feel a whole lot better if you stop once in a while to smell the flowers and see the sights. And if you find that you are more pissed than happy... Maybe, just maybe it is time to blow off some steam in private and not tell everyone on a fan forum about every thing that bothers you all the time. Once in a while, yes but not all of it all the time

No one has said anything wrong in this tread but it is getting pretty far from it's starting point

EDIT: And this does not go out to any specific poster

 

[Fungi]

EDIT: And this does not go out to any specific poster

Is it Heretic? Yeah, it's Heretic isn't it? Yeahhh it is. Heretic.

 

[karl]

Maybe there is a heretic in there somewhere but not "Heretic"

I could start another thread about it?? - Runawaaay

Neee, your all good. Even you Fungi

 

[Heretic]

stop going off topic ffs! *grins*

 

[superballs]

Well said. I do have my share of criticism on Farsight, which started a year ago on 2 levels: declining graphic quality (which is, with exceptions, getting better now) and frame rate/stuttering issues on more than half the tables I payed for. Issues can occur, issues can be fixed. And issues can be ignored(!) And this is what happened. So I might make a post or 2 more about things I like to see different, but let's not take things too serious, I write a lot with a blink. If it's good it's good, if it's sh*t then it's sh*t. It's a pinball game, not our mother or the pope.

Not so long ago, one of our members (present here in this very topic) called me an 'obnoxious troll' on this forum. The moderator was quick in removing his comment, but not quick enough for me to read it. I am a 41 year married guy and too old for making fights with little schoolboys. Then you start to take things really too serious in life if you are getting personal on a level like this, on a pinball forum.. (You know who you are.)

We are all here because we like TPA (and Zaccaria/Zen), and if we hated it we would be hanging around somewhere else. We all have our own style of expression, and we can't be TPA's cheerleaders all the time.

I would think that that was me but I rarely stoop to using the words "obnoxious" or "troll" unless I'm talking about Skill_Shot
Actually, Night, you should join us in chat sometime. Even when the gloves come off there it's usually all in fun. It's almost like professional wrestlers going to the bar after a night's event, all the perceived animosity tends to melt away.

Exactly.

I don't sense that anyone wants a forum where there is heavy handed moderation or cheer leading posts only. It's not what is said, but how it is said.

And don't forget that if one wants to argue or rant, there is always the chat room. What's said in the chat room stays in the chat room and there is no moderation. We rant and blow their steam off there on a regular basis. Even Sean and the Farsight Dev staff have been know to let their hair down there.

Constructive criticism here, anything goes in Chat Room. Lately the room has been more idle, but the more we frequent the Chat Room, the more fun it becomes.

Timelord ...

I'm trying to get there more often but it's difficult to keep up in chat sometimes on a touch screen

Man. I haven't been in a chatroom since the 90's. I think the next big social media site will just be a big, easy to access chatroom. Who wants to invest in my idea?

You'd probably like the crowd in there...even if I'm there. It's a pretty fun little room.

tired to quote multiple post

to answer a query and statement


sean - give over ya tart some of us talk more than others, so your more formal side is shiney

timelord - talk trash in my bar you needa go through me, or just speak english, trolls domt you dare

I think this is the longest post I've ever seen from you...ever!

There is something about Pinball Arcade that just fills my heart with joy. I just recently realized that sitting on my couch in the middle of the night, holding up a glowing rectangle to my face and blasting martians, riding rafts, feeling the power of the wind or being a party pooper is the single best gaming experience in my life so far.

i guess I'm just too fascinated by being able to play these huge, blinking, noisy machines on a machine smaller than a magazine. TPA is still such a young product, and whatever problems occur, they never make me seriously angry, because I'm just incredibly thankful that TPA was born during a time when traditional videogames started to lose me completely.

And really, whatever drama might occur here, it is nothing compared to the big gaming sites out there. Farsight are guys with their hearts in the right place, with passion and dedication. Look at things like eroding consumer rights, gimmicky features, cynical free-to-play models, series being milked dry... TPA is a shining gem in a landscape full of drama and exploitation.

This is about where I stand. Despite flaws and the odd game-ender (I don't experience them all that often really), when I sit down and play a few games on this table and then a few on that table, I get a feeling of exhilaration that most games just don't provide me these days. In fact, when TPA was released, I was considering retiring altogether from my 30 year gaming career.

All told, I think i'm normally pretty level, and honesty i just refrain from posting a lot of the time because i have nothing useful to add, but sometimes a post sets off my nerd-hulk-rage.
Not making excuses.

 

[shutyertrap]

I'll tell you what, simply playing in the PSN tournament right now makes me happy. Any and all of the little things that we might groan and moan about simply vanish, because all I am focused on is improving my placement. Thinking about how extra balls shouldn't be included, how tables should be allowed to rollover, all that kind of stuff...the tournament doesn't care! It wants your score and nothing else.

There's something kinda nice about the purity of that.

On top of that, I'm playing tables I normally might avoid and playing them A LOT. I'm not playing any other video games right now, I'm not watching movies, I'm playing freakin' TPA!! That is ultimately what this game is to me. It has the ability to grab all my attention with a vice like grip. I'm not thinking about pink hues, balls flying off tables, lo-res instruction cards, any of that stuff. The issues tend to pop up when we either are starting to get bored, or when the hype becomes too much. Therefore the simple answer is...tons more tournaments!!