Will Farsight allow us to transfer our tables to the PS4 version when the time comes?

[Hinph]

Would be nice. After reading about the changes they have in store for the PS4 version, I've decided to skip the Wii U version entirely and patiently wait... but if the PS3 tables transferred, then I could go ahead and enjoy them now!

I understand if that isn't the case, however, and I'm patient enough to wait.

 

[Dinosaur Toy]

There is a precedent being set for upgrading digital content on new platforms: On Wii U, Nintendo is going to allow people who previously purchased virtual console games to buy the upgraded Wii U versions (which add significant new features) for a small fee. In that case, about $1 a game. (FYI, Wii Virtual Console titles are already compatible with Wii U, and your purchases can be imported to play there. The upgrade service is for Wii U native editions, which require further development on each individual title.)

Zen and Farsight have already kiiiinda set a precedent for themselves in that table purchases on a given platform or family of platforms (PS3/Vita, Android devices, i-devices) follow the owner's account. In a sense, it might be in the interest of both companies to consider an upgrade program for existing table owners. The cost involved with creating new versions of each table are understandable. But it might be the difference between convincing existing owners to upgrade all their tables vs buying only a handful of their most-played tables on PS4.

Announcing an upgrade program in advance might also help keep PS3 sales from dropping off a cliff.

 

[pseudokings]

There is a precedent being set for upgrading digital content on new platforms: On Wii U, Nintendo is going to allow people who previously purchased virtual console games to buy the upgraded Wii U versions (which add significant new features) for a small fee. In that case, about $1 a game. (FYI, Wii Virtual Console titles are already compatible with Wii U, and your purchases can be imported to play there. The upgrade service is for Wii U native editions, which require further development on each individual title.)

Zen and Farsight have already kiiiinda set a precedent for themselves in that table purchases on a given platform or family of platforms (PS3/Vita, Android devices, i-devices) follow the owner's account. In a sense, it might be in the interest of both companies to consider an upgrade program for existing table owners. The cost involved with creating new versions of each table are understandable. But it might be the difference between convincing existing owners to upgrade all their tables vs buying only a handful of their most-played tables on PS4.

Announcing an upgrade program in advance might also help keep PS3 sales from dropping off a cliff.

good post, hey, FS, read it, then inform your fans what you plan to do (please)!

 

[Sinistar]

There is a precedent being set for upgrading digital content on new platforms: On Wii U, Nintendo is going to allow people who previously purchased virtual console games to buy the upgraded Wii U versions (which add significant new features) for a small fee. In that case, about $1 a game. (FYI, Wii Virtual Console titles are already compatible with Wii U, and your purchases can be imported to play there. The upgrade service is for Wii U native editions, which require further development on each individual title.)

Zen and Farsight have already kiiiinda set a precedent for themselves in that table purchases on a given platform or family of platforms (PS3/Vita, Android devices, i-devices) follow the owner's account. In a sense, it might be in the interest of both companies to consider an upgrade program for existing table owners. The cost involved with creating new versions of each table are understandable. But it might be the difference between convincing existing owners to upgrade all their tables vs buying only a handful of their most-played tables on PS4.

Announcing an upgrade program in advance might also help keep PS3 sales from dropping off a cliff.

In reality though what one company does , not necessarily affects the decision making process of another. Oh believe me I understand how business trends will motivate a business to following like sheep , but this is the same consumer mentality that makes people think that since 3DS took a price cut after Sony announced PS Vita , 2 years ago, that this was going to be a regular practice of every portable that comes out. IT'S NOT . FarSight is not in the Silicon Valley , they are in Big Bear , CA. That should tell you about their finances , they are "mom and Pop" size developers they can't be expected to be able to afford to throw out money just because consumers expect them to. You might think it's fair to get a new game because you bought the old version , but that would deprive their business of profits it needs to survive . So , please wake up and support this game , if you buy the PS4 , it does not entitle you to FarSight's hardwork on that version.

 

[jhamdotme]

I have every table for the PS3. I’ll likely get the PS4, and I’m going to want to get all of the tables there, too. But if I have to pay full price to double dip on each of these tables, I’m not going to be buying any of the tables for the PS3 anymore. That’s an easy decision, especially since I’m already getting everything for iOS. (Which, incidentally, was upgraded to support the Retina Screen iPad and the 4″ screen iPhone, neither of which were available when The Pinball Arcade was first released.)

If, however, there’s a modest upgrade fee, so that I can later turn my PS3 tables into the new hotness PS4 versions, I’ll continue to grab everything that Farsight is selling on the PS3. That’ll mean happier customers, and added revenue, most likely. Let me explain.

The new table packs will most likely continue to be $5. So they’ll make more money if people double dip at full price, and they’ll make $10 on each table pack. But I’m not going to be doing this, and I suspect I’m not alone. But if there’s a $2 or $3 upgrade fee, I’ll continue to buy each PS3 table pack, at $5, and I’ll upgrade as soon as I get the new hardware. All told, they’ll get $7 or $8 from me per table pack. But if there’s not a clear path for upgrades, they’ll only get $5. So in my case at least, they’ll be getting less money. And what’s worse, I won’t be getting my big screen pinball fix for the new tables until the end of the year, and I’ll miss out on the promised 3D upgrade that I’m looking forward to.

Good will with your customers should not be discounted. And sometimes, an extra buck in the short term isn’t worth as much in the long term if it’s going to cost you good will with your best customers. I dig what Farsight is doing, and they’ve done right by their customers as far as I can tell, so I buy everything that they sell, sight unseen, the moment it’s released. I’d like to continue doing this, and I’d love to see them address this issue sooner rather than later.

I don’t feel “entitled” to a free upgrade, and I’m happy to pay what’s fair. But all the same, I’m not going to throw away money on something with an expiration date. I’m not going to continue to buy something that, for me, is going to be obsolete at the end of the year.

 

[DrainoBraino]

Such a touchy subject when it comes to downloadable games, eh? Personally I don't expect anything from game companies. But I will shell out for games if I like them without as much as a second thought.

Just think of all the money you've spent on crappy games? I remember when I was a kid spending months worth of allowances on NES games only to find out they were frustratingly unplayable or just downright stupid. (I'm looking at you, Fester's Quest, TMNT, and Jaws). I wish I had all the money back for all the junk games I bought over the years. TPA is a great bargain considering how much gameplay I get out of it.

We are so spoiled with games now. Atari 2600 games were $20-$30 in 1980! And we liked it! Now you can play great games in your browser or phone for free.

 

[spoonman]

Keep in mind here.. We don't except the new PS4 version of The Pinball Arcade program to be free.

I keep seeing a lot people asking why they would just give away something for free.
What I am suggesting is that they let us move our existing PS3 tables to the PS4 version of the frontend so we can continue to build our virtual table collection for years to come.

I, 1. Don't want to re-buy everything so soon.. 2. Don't want to have to swap back and fourth from the PS3 to the PS4 version of TPA to play tables.

This isn't something we need to think about many months from now. We need to think about it NOW!
Farsight has been working on the PS4 version of TPA.. The PS4 will be out in a mere 8 months (or so).

So, as PS3 users and buyers of The Pinball Arcade, we have decisions to make.
Will we hear back from farsight on the importing of PS3 tables or do we save our money for the PS4 version of TPA.

This is something a lot of developers haven't had to deal with prior to large digital distribution of games. It's a new world of DLC.. How will it play out?

 

[DarkAkatosh]

The fact that FS has been dead silent on this topic is not good at all.

 

[brakel]

FS is silent on most subjects until they're ready to make an announcement.

Do we know what Zen's plans are going to the PS4? All we know is that they allowed people to move their purchased tables from version 1 to version 2 of the game within the same platform. They might not do the same thing from PS3 to PS4.

 

[Byte]

Sorry, I still don't understand your argument. They just stopped making PS2s. I've got tons of games for my PS2. What if it dies? Do I expect Sony or any of the creators of the games to fix my system or send me a new one? This goes for any console I can think of. Why would you expect special treatment in this case? Because it was a digital copy instead of a physical copy?

There is an excellent PS2 emulator for the PC and it accepts regular PS2 CDs and DVDs - you can play them forever if you want.

Wii emulator is good enough, but you will have a bit of trouble using the discs as is (outside of the scope of this forum)

For the PS3 you might some day be able to get them off your internal HD and get the needed crypto keys off your hardware. Perhaps when the PS3 is no longer supported. Make sure you keep the receipts the PS Store sends you.

 

[phreaker47]

My question is: Why should they?

Any tables/games you already purchased, you bought to play them on the current hardware. As far as I know they never promised any future compatibility, so I'm not sure why anyone would feel entitled to it.
If they offered something like that or even a discount then that would be very cool of them, but they absolutely don't owe it to anyone.

/thread

And a far more useful thing, in my book, to campaign for would be to encourage them to put more effort and polish into the Vita tables.

 

[DarkAkatosh]

I don't think I'm entitled to anything. It's just that if the inability to carry over DLC is indeed the case then that completely invalidates playing TPA on consoles in any form.

 

[shutyertrap]

I do feel this is one of those things I'd like to see FarSight get in front of and communicate about. No matter what the answer is, our speculation is starting to become it's own thing. I doubt FS can give a definitive answer for numerous reasons right now, but some comment of "we got a plan in the works" or "next gen is it's own thing entirely" would certainly help the conversation or stop it outright.

 

[phreaker47]

I do feel this is one of those things I'd like to see FarSight get in front of and communicate about. No matter what the answer is, our speculation is starting to become it's own thing. I doubt FS can give a definitive answer for numerous reasons right now, but some comment of "we got a plan in the works" or "next gen is it's own thing entirely" would certainly help the conversation or stop it outright.

They don't need to. The argument is silly and has been made far more convoluted than necessary.

PS3 owners of TPA who get a PS4 are owed nothing, period. If you bought PHOF for PS2, were you automatically entitled to the same game on PS3? What makes this situation any different? There's only one thing different: digital distribution makes it technically possible. Technically. It still makes about as much business sense, though... which is to say, zero business sense.

Yes, it is understandable that with DLC coming out for PS3 throughout this year, that prospective PS4 owners (including myself) may see the limited value of it with the PS4 suddenly just around the corner. But that still does not translate into FS owing anyone anything, especially when the reality is they have to put all the development effort until rebuilding the game from scratch again.

It would be definitely cool of them to offer some kind of deal/discount to PS3 buyers for the PS4, but again, no one is owed anything, and they shouldn't even be frowned upon if they don't do so.

Imagine you're one of the programmers. How would you view this complaint? Yeah. Thought so. (and I know you aren't making the complaint... this is just a general statement to everyone)

 

[ravager]

I do feel this is one of those things I'd like to see FarSight get in front of and communicate about. No matter what the answer is, our speculation is starting to become it's own thing. I doubt FS can give a definitive answer for numerous reasons right now, but some comment of "we got a plan in the works" or "next gen is it's own thing entirely" would certainly help the conversation or stop it outright.

I don't know. I think the public at large could care less about there being an "upgrade strategy" for pinball games between two generations of consoles. I'll buy every release for iOS and PS3 (and select Android) without worrying about something bigger and better coming down the pipe. As consumers you either buy it, or you don't. Lets put this into perspective. I paid 30 or 40 dollars for Eight Ball Deluxe on the PC. That was in the mid 90s. We get 2 tables for five dollars and ***** about it. Lets just call it "forum grumbling".

 

[Metalzoic]

They don't need to. The argument is silly and has been made far more convoluted than necessary.

PS3 owners of TPA who get a PS4 are owed nothing, period. If you bought PHOF for PS2, were you automatically entitled to the same game on PS3? What makes this situation any different? There's only one thing different: digital distribution makes it technically possible. Technically. It still makes about as much business sense, though... which is to say, zero business sense.

Yes, it is understandable that with DLC coming out for PS3 throughout this year, that prospective PS4 owners (including myself) may see the limited value of it with the PS4 suddenly just around the corner. But that still does not translate into FS owing anyone anything, especially when the reality is they have to put all the development effort until rebuilding the game from scratch again.

It would be definitely cool of them to offer some kind of deal/discount to PS3 buyers for the PS4, but again, no one is owed anything, and they shouldn't even be frowned upon if they don't do so.

Imagine you're one of the programmers. How would you view this complaint? Yeah. Thought so. (and I know you aren't making the complaint... this is just a general statement to everyone)

Almost exactly what I said and I agree.

 

[shutyertrap]

They don't need to. The argument is silly and has been made far more convoluted than necessary.

PS3 owners of TPA who get a PS4 are owed nothing, period. If you bought PHOF for PS2, were you automatically entitled to the same game on PS3? What makes this situation any different? There's only one thing different: digital distribution makes it technically possible. Technically. It still makes about as much business sense, though... which is to say, zero business sense.

Yes, it is understandable that with DLC coming out for PS3 throughout this year, that prospective PS4 owners (including myself) may see the limited value of it with the PS4 suddenly just around the corner. But that still does not translate into FS owing anyone anything, especially when the reality is they have to put all the development effort until rebuilding the game from scratch again.

It would be definitely cool of them to offer some kind of deal/discount to PS3 buyers for the PS4, but again, no one is owed anything, and they shouldn't even be frowned upon if they don't do so.

Imagine you're one of the programmers. How would you view this complaint? Yeah. Thought so. (and I know you aren't making the complaint... this is just a general statement to everyone)

I feel like we have really argued this thing in circles at least 3 times. Has anyone once said FarSight owes PS3 owners anything? Do we really need to argue one more time how PS2 -> PS3 is not anywhere near the same as PS3 -> PS4 in terms of online content? And why is it not possible for those arguing the "business" side to even acknowledge the pubic relations side of things and see how that too can benefit the business side?

At this point, seriously, time to agree to disagree.

There is no arguing that this is a concern among the public though. I've already seen posts in other threads where people are saying, "screw buying for the Xbox when it becomes available again, I'd rather wait for the PS4". Those are lost immediate sales in favor of future sales, but IOUs don't pay the bills. The same thing has been said about buying for the Wii U, so FarSight goes and spends all this time developing for it but people are blowing it off because even newer and shinier is on the very real horizon.

You cannot strictly look at business decisions purely from the ledger. Look at the huge PR nightmare NetFlix had when it split streaming from discs by mail, and then thought to change the name for the disc service. On paper, it looked fine and data supported how users actually used the service. Psychologically though, the public cried bloody murder and it really hurt NetFlix for at least one, maybe 2 quarters. Have they recovered? Sure, strong as ever. Could they have handled the situation better, thus retaining their golden boy status? Undoubtedly.

FarSight has a potential storm brewing, what with Windows 8, the return of Xbox, PC, Wii U, and next gen which right now is only PS4, and a new kickstarter. I'm saying get in front of it, give people the info they need to make informed decisions NOW. If we are properly informed, it's on us what we choose to do. If we're not informed and instead left in the dark, well, we've all read what the Facebook posts looked like over Xbox and kickstarter issues. I imagine a big wave of it could crash here in the forums.

 

[ravager]

If a DLC is released and someone wants it, they will buy it. This is so similar to getting upset when a newer version of the super widget is released, after you hemmed and hawed about buying the current version of the super widget, but then finally pulled the trigger. It is technology and things move quickly, and "new" technology vaults toward obsolescence at an alarming rate of speed.

 

[squidlr]

It makes total sense to allow people to transfer their previous purchases from PS3 to PS4, from a customer loyalty perspective. It would be very poor of Farsight and Sony if they don't offer this to their Playstation user base.

 

[DrainoBraino]

Well, what about all the other downloaded games and DLC on your PS3? Should everything transfer? What about PS1 classics and demo games?

This seems like a nightmare. Some one pinch me when all my games get transferred.