WIsh I had gotten in on the tuning...

Fungi

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Feb 20, 2012
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Raise your hand if The Power has magically carried your ball directly to the right outlane.

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Gus

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Mar 5, 2014
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Raise your hand if The Power has magically carried your ball directly to the right outlane.

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Got to love the power :) It's mostly left outlane for me. The Power catches the ball from chair kickout and flings it down the left. Thanks Seance! :)
 

Shaneus

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Mar 26, 2012
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IMHO, nope. I've never played a TAF with a Power *that* noticeable. It's fine, though, it makes up for some of the other factors that will be easier due to video pinball.

Although the kickouts are predictable, this is video pinball. Also, they could be decently predictable in real life. In real life, getting a good bear ramp -> electric chair rhythm going was quite possible.
I agree. The middle ramp Seance shot is literally impossible with the strength of The Power, at best it just saps it of all forward momentum, meaning it'll maybe start going up the ramp a little but I'm yet to see it go all the way around :/
 

shutyertrap

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Mar 14, 2012
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I agree. The middle ramp Seance shot is literally impossible with the strength of The Power, at best it just saps it of all forward momentum, meaning it'll maybe start going up the ramp a little but I'm yet to see it go all the way around :/

The Power is not always on. Sometimes it is simply s matter of waiting a few seconds longer. I've had games where it's grabbed everything I've shot, and others where I hardly notice it. Seance is a beast, and often I'll just catch the ball and let it end rather than have it toss my ball about.
 

EldarOfSuburbia

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Feb 8, 2014
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Trap the ball and wait 10 seconds or so. The Power will switch off until a switch is hit. Very useful when shooting the Vault for multiball. Not so useful for Séance because of the timer.
 

Zaphod77

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Feb 14, 2013
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Raise your hand if The Power has magically carried your ball directly to the right outlane.

giphy.gif

that happens even more in real life. it looks cool though. the power is not right on TAF> that said it's still true to the sirit of it, and is every bit as annoying as the real life power.

and tpas never gives you a free chair reshoot. this event is not uncommon in real life.
 

Storm Chaser

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Apr 18, 2012
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I agree, the table is amazing but a bit too easy. The Power is ridiculously strong although that doesn't really matter that much in the end.

The game is quite predictable where most kickouts etc can be perfectly controlled. Keeping the mini-flipper out always delivers the ball to the left flipper to be cradled.

The difficulties of this game includes left-slingshot to the right outlane (as on most games) and not hitting the right part of the chair from your left flipper to a direct-to-right-outlane.

100 bear hits was tricky but once you learn a few tricks it's not that bad. Swamp kickout and direct flip almost always shoots it up the center ramp. Returns to the right flipper can, to some extent, always be nudged over to the left flipper (so you can shoot the ramp again). Just remember to keep the right flipper up when you nudge.
 

Epsilon

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Apr 19, 2012
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Yeah, the Power is ridiculously strong. It seems like it's just random as to whether the ball is completely unaffected by it or puts up an invisible wall. It only behaves normally when the ball is moving EXTREMELY slowly in that area. Hopefully they tweak it a bit to make it more realistic. But everything else feels pretty much accurate insofar as the limitations of digital pinball allow. Yes, that means that the table is probably too easy, but it's hard to see what they could have really feasibly done outside of scripting some really unfair things into it. I know I'm probably not in the majority on this, but I'd rather the table be relatively easy than super frustratingly difficult.

They certainly seem to have compensated for the general ease with some brutal Wizard goals, though. I don't think I'll ever complete them. I already have the two easy ones (Tour the Mansion and the 3X Jackpot, which of course I got on my first game when it didn't count but kept choking on for like my next 5 games after that.) I think I should be able to get the 100 Bear Kicks eventually if I really put effort into focusing on it. Even in my best game (1.9 billion with probably like 10 balls at least) I only ended up around 70-75, but I also didn't really focus on it. I figure my strategy will be to just focus on progressing the Mansion, only stopping to collect EB's when available and just go after the ramp exclusively.

The other two I don't think I'll ever get. The closest I got on the Million Plus was 6 or 7, and that was only since it seemed to count Jackpot shots during multiball as progress toward that. As easy as the table might be, the outlanes are still pretty dangerous and the Power-enabled modes can really screw you too. The ease of the table is more related to how readily EB's can be had than it is necessarily that easy to keep a single ball in play long enough to hit the toughest shot in the game 10 times.

The 4-Way Combo is probably never going to happen either, although that one I guess I could just get lucky if I keep trying long enough. The second and third legs of that combo are just brutal. I'm probably able to hit the final shot with about 60-70% accuracy at this point, but even if I'm lucky enough to get the 2nd shot through the bumpers unscathed the ball is always RACING around that orbit, to the point where it's a total crap shoot as to whether I can even get close to hitting the left ramp. And then there's still a chance I miss the last shot (which would be infuriating considering I can normally hit that pretty easily.)

I think the only chance I might have to improve the odds is if I can somehow trap the ball on the right flipper after it's returned from the center ramp. I haven't really tried, but it seems like for the most part you have to just take a shot or the ball will end up on the left if you just hold the flipper up. I wonder if the speed of the ball through the bumpers might be faster when hitting it straight from the ramp return, which in turn makes the left ramp harder to hit. I'll have to experiment with that a bit. But I don't think I'll lose any sleep over it if I can't get all the goals here. If nothing else it'll give me some reason to keep coming back (not that I really need any.)
 
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shutyertrap

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Actually the 4 shot combo isn't that bad. After you shoot through the bumpers, yes the ball comes screaming around. Thing is, short of just holding the flipper open, most of the time if you can actually flip the ball it will go up the ramp. Weird I can hit the ramp that way and not on a slow ball! I got pretty good at the 3, but that 4th into the swamp does become amazingly difficult when the pressure is on. I think you'll be surprised at how soon you'll get this goal with a little focus.

The 10 million plus though...good lord is that one kicking my butt. 7 is my highest.
 

Fungi

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Feb 20, 2012
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I keep getting the 3-way combo. Being that I can only get the combo only after getting thru the bumpers by luck. If I purposely aim for it after the bear ramp, I just can't do it.
 

Zaphod77

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Feb 14, 2013
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A flip exactly halfway down the flipper after the bear kick ramp will sometimes go through the bumpers.

once it goes through, a quick flip at the upper flipper will usually go right up the ramp. then a pretty quick one at the mini flip will land in the swamp sometimes.

I've only got super bear kick left. that one is hard.
 

shutyertrap

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I've only got super bear kick left. that one is hard.

Yes and no. The trick is to not get distracted by doing anything else on the table. Don't start multiball, don't shoot into the chair. Every last shot needs to be done solely with the intention of hitting the bear ramp. It's mind numbing, kinda boring, but that's how you get it done.
 

Epsilon

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Apr 19, 2012
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Yes and no. The trick is to not get distracted by doing anything else on the table. Don't start multiball, don't shoot into the chair. Every last shot needs to be done solely with the intention of hitting the bear ramp. It's mind numbing, kinda boring, but that's how you get it done.

Yeah, I mostly agree with this, but I think you should probably go after the EB (for 8 Bear Kicks and then again higher up, can't remember what number), and also if you notice that Lite Extra Ball is lit on the mansion then go ahead and collect that too. I think psychologically having extra balls in hand will help ease the pressure a bit, because while this table isn't particularly hard, there are still a lot of dangerous drain possibilities. It's not like some tables where the outlanes are really forgiving or the balls are trapped on the flippers super easily. And shots that go up the ramp partially and come back down can be dangerous sometimes too, although some artful nudging can usually keep it safe.

Another possible advantage to multiball is that you can still go after Bear Kicks during that, so if you keep one ball trapped and hammer at the ramp you can get some "free shots" so to speak. Although The Power could put a damper on that, I suppose.

But yeah, it's become really clear to me that if you don't almost exclusively focus on Bear Kicks, you're not even going to get close. I had a game with probably seven extra balls, nearing 2 billion points, and I only finished at about 70-75.

ETA: By the way, thanks for your tip on the 4-Way Combo. I had a fairly middling game last night of about 500 million, but the one time I hit the shot through the bumpers off the Bear Kick ramp I remember that you said that if you just get a flipper on it at all it's likely to hit the left ramp, so I just flipped wildly as soon as the ball was screaming around the corner and hit the ramp. It was pretty nerve-wracking waiting for the ball to settle on the Thing flipper with the 3-way combo music playing, but I nailed it and got the goal I thought I'd never get. The irony was that I was having a strangely tough time hitting the Swamp from Thing that game, but I actually hit it when it really counted. Go figure, right?

Along those lines, I do have to say that I think in retrospect the table is probably a bit too easy overall. On my second game I drained trying to hit the Electric Chair when Tour the Mansion was lit, and felt very upset that I came so close to getting that goal. But honestly, at this point, only five games later, even on a bad game I'll Tour the Mansion at least once, and in my best game I did it 4 times. TTM probably shouldn't be something that happens on every game on a properly tuned machine unless you're a real wizard, but again, I think there's only so much Farsight can do without making the table incredibly frustrating for novice/casual players. Digital pinball by its very nature is going to be more predictable and manageable than the real thing, unless you start fudging the physics in punitive ways.
 
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shutyertrap

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My guess is that without the ability to have millions of points of variation along with ball spin, raising the difficulty would only be through artificial input. I've seen to many wacky things happen due to ball spin on a real table that defy logic. I've seen a ball come out of a kickout 5 different ways five times in a row. I don't think it is any different with Zen, I can't speak for A.S.K. or Pro Pinball or Color Monkey.
 

Xanija

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Actually the 4 shot combo isn't that bad. After you shoot through the bumpers, yes the ball comes screaming around. Thing is, short of just holding the flipper open, most of the time if you can actually flip the ball it will go up the ramp. Weird I can hit the ramp that way and not on a slow ball! I got pretty good at the 3, but that 4th into the swamp does become amazingly difficult when the pressure is on. I think you'll be surprised at how soon you'll get this goal with a little focus.

I was indeed surprised, didn't take me too long. It just needs a bit of practice to find the right angle for getting the ball through the bumpers. I thought this wizard goal would be almost impossible to reach for me.

The 10 million plus though...good lord is that one kicking my butt. 7 is my highest.

I got 9 today. 9!!!! Ahhhhh...

It's amazing how often I DON'T get this ramp shot done. I am quite good at returning the ball to the Thing. But I guess I need like 5 shots in average to hit the ramp.

I haven't got the super bear bonus as well yet. I was concentrating on the 10m+ today and I feel like it's easier to get the bear ramp goal.
 

Epsilon

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My guess is that without the ability to have millions of points of variation along with ball spin, raising the difficulty would only be through artificial input. I've seen to many wacky things happen due to ball spin on a real table that defy logic. I've seen a ball come out of a kickout 5 different ways five times in a row. I don't think it is any different with Zen, I can't speak for A.S.K. or Pro Pinball or Color Monkey.

Yeah, that's right. And frankly, the more I play TAF the more I realize that there are still a lot of dangerous situations. If you plunge the ball at a certain strength it can end up going straight down the right outlane. And the slingshots can be murder (I can't count how many balls I've lost to a Right Slingshot-Left Slingshot-Right Outlane sequence.) What makes TAF easier than many tables is partly the ease of getting Extra Balls and partly the fact that I think it's easier to pre-emptively nudge yourself out of trouble. The small gap between flippers also helps.

I mean, it has to be really hard to tune difficulty for tables like this, because you don't want completely cheap and unfair drains all over the place, but you also don't want anyone but the best of the best to be able to play indefinitely on one credit either. I think part of it is the disconnect between the origin of the games' design (to suck quarters from people) and the way it's used in TPA (home use with infinite credits.) The other part, though, is that a lot of people will get frustrated if they feel that they're losing balls through no fault of their own. But the more Farsight works to prevent the cheap drains, the less the better players will ever drain, and thus the table becomes "too easy" for the enthusiasts.
 

DoX

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May 3, 2013
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TAF is designed to be appealing to wide range of players, beginners AND experts like, and that's why it may seem too easy for some. For those saying that it is too easy, let me ask you a simple question: How many of you have actually finished TTM? I believe not many. I haven't succeeded reaching that goal and I played this table for years IRL. So we can't say it's "too easy", can we?
 

shutyertrap

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Mar 14, 2012
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For those saying that it is too easy, let me ask you a simple question: How many of you have actually finished TTM? I believe not many. I haven't succeeded reaching that goal and I played this table for years IRL. So we can't say it's "too easy", can we?

In TPA? I've finished TTM twice in one game before. In total I have probably gotten it 6 or 7 times, but since I've been concentrating on completing the 10 million + shots, I haven't tried for it again. If you are talking about on the real table, I've never come close. But that's because I had no idea what to do! I do now.
 
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