WMS License - Speculation Thread

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Well said, SYT. There’s no denying the impact Farsight has had on the popularity of digital pinball, and pinball in general. You can be absolutely sure that the barcades, pinball shows, tournament scenes, etc. would see smaller crowds if not for Farsight, not to mention the positive effect they’ve had on the sales of real pinball machines.

I think it's fair to say that Zen would not have this license if Farsight hadn't had it to begin with.

Farsight's problem was they got stuck with a business model that they couldn't or wouldn't back out of, and quality slipped at the expense of getting a release out every month. (I think there is also a certain mentality when it comes to relocating the studio to attract more/better talent to expand the team to help them. I think things might've been different if they'd relocated to LA or anywhere not at the top of a mountain.)

 

[Citizen]

Agree with Jeff and syt. In spite of not having come along until 2012, I'd argue that TPA is the most significant digital pinball game ever made. FarSight did that. Doesn't seem useless to me.

In fact I'd compare it to when you see anti-Stern people acting like Stern's contributions to real pinball weren't significant, in spite of the fact that they carried the industry single-handedly for over a decade.

Neither are assessments of quality or personal preference, yet are hard to deny without a counterargument that ultimately boils down to "I disagree because I don't like them." Well, that's fine and all, everyone is entitled to their taste, but it doesn't diminish what FarSight has accomplished.

 

[shutyertrap]

I think it's fair to say that Zen would not have this license if Farsight hadn't had it to begin with.

Farsight's problem was they got stuck with a business model that they couldn't or wouldn't back out of, and quality slipped at the expense of getting a release out every month. (I think there is also a certain mentality when it comes to relocating the studio to attract more/better talent to expand the team to help them. I think things might've been different if they'd relocated to LA or anywhere not at the top of a mountain.)

They are also stuck using a game engine that is nearing 7 years old, which is ancient by development standards. Maybe this will convince them to make a new engine.

 

[Xanija]

They are also stuck using a game engine that is nearing 7 years old, which is ancient by development standards. Maybe this will convince them to make a new engine.

I doubt they will, considering there's just Gottlieb and Stern left. This probably won't justify an investment like that. But hey, pure speculation from my side.

 

[Citizen]

It probably depends on how their efforts with LCDs and going day-and-date with new Stern releases pan out.

If they can start pumping out modern Sterns in step with the real tables, I think that alone would justify building a new game engine. If not, then probably not.

 

[Sun Vulcan]

Star Wars Episode I and Revenge From Mars just a matter of time now.

 

[shutyertrap]

Star Wars Episode I and Revenge From Mars just a matter of time now.

Absolutely, and Zen could go a step further and not even bother with the 'hologram' images but just do fully animated versions I bet, or something that wouldn't require rendering a teleprompter like surface.

 

[Citizen]

Williams Star Wars now a possibility again.

Meanwhile Stern and Data East Star Wars still probably doomed to limbo.

Sorry for that, it just hurts my soul.

 

[shutyertrap]

Williams Star Wars now a possibility again.

Meanwhile Stern and Data East Star Wars still probably doomed to limbo.

Sorry for that, it just hurts my soul.

I've heard it a few different times, that Stern Deadpool wouldn't even be able to come to digital simply because Zen already has a digital Deadpool table. So same would apply to Star Wars since they have the digital license to it, same with Jurassic Park, same with any of the Marvel Stern tables (unless the movie license separates from the comic license in this respect), Back to the Future. I guess South Park would be back on the table except FarSight already passed on that one time.

 

[zdjh22]

Exactly right.

As for digital pinball specifically, Farsight blazed the trail in a lot of ways. I was playing PHOF on my PSP in 2006. The first truly modern version of mobile digital pinball, before a "smart phone" even existed (the first iPhone didn't arrive till 2007 and it was quite awhile before the app store and the hardware itself evolved into a proper gaming experience).

Gotta give credit where it's due.

Hear, hear, I totally agree. I’ve been a long time “investor” in Farsight, from the PHoF days via Crave on PS2 (2004), PS3 (2007), PSP, Wii, iOS, and since the licensing change, Steam, so that I could better future-proof my access. I missed the ST:TNG and TZ Kickstarters (wasn’t even aware of Kickstarter then) but happily supported the next three (T2, TAF, Dr Who). So for me personally, more than 10 years and probably much more than a thousand hours of entertainment, all thanks to FS. I owned real machines (Centaur, High Speed) prior to PHoF, so in my case FS didn’t inspire the purchase of a real pin, but it has inspired me to build my own cab. And it let me play a bunch of games that I never saw in real life.

So, thanks Farsight for helping to blaze the digital trail and doing your part to keep pinball alive. I for one will continue to support your efforts, and at the same time I am happy that Zen’s software and licensing agreement will let future new pinball fans play WMS simulations.

 

[tomwaits]

I've heard it a few different times, that Stern Deadpool wouldn't even be able to come to digital simply because Zen already has a digital Deadpool table. So same would apply to Star Wars since they have the digital license to it, same with Jurassic Park, same with any of the Marvel Stern tables (unless the movie license separates from the comic license in this respect), Back to the Future. I guess South Park would be back on the table except FarSight already passed on that one time.

Looking at this from the other direction, if Stern followed the same path as the Williams/Bally license and jumped ship to Zen they might have the opportunity to release a lot more of their modern tables. Zen has at least partial digital pinball rights to all the franchises you mentioned along with Family Guy (Fox = Simpsons too?) and Walking Dead.

 

[Rayder]

Stern, Data East, Sega, Gottlieb....whatever. Release new tables on PS4 and I will buy them. I have all of everything for TPA and SPA now, and I plan to continue owning all of everything going forward. But new tables need to release to have anything to buy. Consider this, I own all of everything for Pinball FX3, and I don't even particularly care for the fako tables they make. I just like pinball. Gimme, gimme, gimme! Got my money right here.

 

[Tripredacus]

Well said, SYT. There’s no denying the impact Farsight has had on the popularity of digital pinball, and pinball in general. You can be absolutely sure that the barcades, pinball shows, tournament scenes, etc. would see smaller crowds if not for Farsight, not to mention the positive effect they’ve had on the sales of real pinball machines.

I'm certain those places wouldn't be around. The amount of people that I've met at tournaments that got into pinball because of Pinball Arcade, or the previous disc games on PS2/Wii/whatever are no small amount.

 

[Palmer Eldritch]

maybe Farsight will surprise us all and bring us Baby Pac-Man.

 

[Xanija]

Well said, SYT. There’s no denying the impact Farsight has had on the popularity of digital pinball, and pinball in general. You can be absolutely sure that the barcades, pinball shows, tournament scenes, etc. would see smaller crowds if not for Farsight, not to mention the positive effect they’ve had on the sales of real pinball machines.

I can absolutely confirm I am one of them. I have 800 hours on Steam only on TPA (and probably something similar on mobile). TPA brought me back to real pinball, I'm member of a pinball & arcade museum association. Thanks to FarSight for many hours of fun with TPA!

 

[Gorgias32]

TPA is an amazing accomplishment, and definitely my favorite mobile game of all time. Nearly all of the tables have something to offer. The team there is clearly a great group of talented people - I think they were shackled by an aged code base and an apparent lack of formal software QA, tied to a business model that required rapid release of new content, which resulted in recurring quality control issues. As others have said, this doesn't take away from what they have provided (and hopefully will continue to provide) to the pinball community, and I will continue to play all the tables, at least until the Willams ones come out on mobile. I personally plan to continue to buy all the new modern Sterns that come out, and probably anything else that comes to TPA in the future.

But I am absolutely thrilled that Zen is taking over the Williams license. We'll get multiplayer, more goals and modes, normal/hard tuning, and so much more, along with a new engine that shows promise of being vastly superior to anything Farsight or Zen themselves have produced in the past.

 

[Hinph]

I wish everybody at Farsight the best and hope they find success with their future projects, but I'm also very excited to see the Zen Studios treatment of these tables. They have more resources and could give us higher quality recreations. I stopped buying Pinball Arcade tables when it became clear that Farsight was unable to address the problems the community had with the game. Zen has my attention. Maybe they'll get me back into digital pinball. Who knows.

 

[wolfson]

I want to thank everyone at Farsight , the joy you have given me is unmeasurable !!!! I love you for that , and I hope you can continue to bring out tables which aren`t Williams and Bally , which there is plenty of out there . as for Zen you use to be my fantasy tables , now I`ll be able to have both in the same place . this is a new era for us .I will be buying every table all over again . I`m bloody happy !!!

 

[Gorgias32]

When I first saw the tables that were on the list to be released first by Zen, I was a little disappointed in HS2 and JY being on the list. Then I realized, the reason I don't care for these tables is the fact that they are two of the tables that are tuned _WAY_ too easy in TPA - I'm really looking forward to trying a more realistic play (in FX3.

 

[Sean]

I’ll hold judgement on this new app, but I am definitely not into starting out repurchasing the tables I already have on two platforms whatever their physics engine is like. If they do a bunch of unreleased EMs and early SS tables I’m all in though!