Worst release so far?

[Storm Chaser]

I had heard about Black Knight before and at my first glance I thought it looked kinda cool but this table must be the worst release so far. It has pretty much all things I dislike with a table:

- Quite random scoring - I really don't know what pays out other than the triple multiball and the game doesn't really show it either (I don't want to read instructions in order to get this. It's easy to get this for all other tables).

- Major bugs - Especially the lag bug that makes it unplayable when you get a multiball

- Lots of SDTM's - Especially when rolling down on the center ramp during multiball. Basically making me flip all I can on all flippers during multiball. The only way I have seen that seems to really work.

- Sound effects - My gosh! I wonder if those laser beams were made just to annoy you, I always play this game with the sound turned off.

- Very few things to do - Yeay, I got the multiball and I collected the extra balls. Now, let's do that 5 times again!

It's not really that it is old, I am not too fond of old games but find a great deal of charm in Gorgar and Black Knight. So why the h**l do I play it then? Well, I don't very often but I am such a sucker on tPA that I play everything until I made all high scores and goals.

Do you agree with me?

 

[Brandon Debes]

I've always hated Black Knight, my man.

Now, Black Knight 2000, on the other hand. Now there's a pinball table.

 

[gooche77]

I really enjoy the Solid State tables from the late 70's throughout the 80's.

That being said, Black Knight eats a bag. I would have preferred Sorceror or Fireball.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

Black Knight is very old as far as solid state tables go (1980). Technology was more limited back then, and features that we take for granted today (like multiball and Magna-Save) were exciting and innovative 30 years ago. Tables in general were crueler back then - ten minutes was considered an exceptionally long game - and much simpler, as the ROMs had limited capacity and it was simply not possible to store all the code in them needed to implement complex mode-based games.

I've come to appreciate the older tables more now that I have some of them in virtual form and it doesn't cost me 50 cents each game, but in general I prefer more modern tables. Some others here prefer the more "pure" pinball experience offered by the older, simpler tables. It's all a matter of what you want from your pinball, really.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Black Knight is very old as far as solid state tables go (1980). Technology was more limited back then, and features that we take for granted today (like multiball and Magna-Save) were exciting and innovative 30 years ago. Tables in general were crueler back then - ten minutes was considered an exceptionally long game - and much simpler, as the ROMs had limited capacity and it was simply not possible to store all the code in them needed to implement complex mode-based games.

I've come to appreciate the older tables more now that I have some of them in virtual form and it doesn't cost me 50 cents each game, but in general I prefer more modern tables. Some others here prefer the more "pure" pinball experience offered by the older, simpler tables. It's all a matter of what you want from your pinball, really.

Well said.

I have to say I like all the tables we have so far. They all are great in their own way.....but if I had to pick my least favorite, it would probably be CFTBL.

 

[McGuirk]

I can understand, but yeah, it's an older table and I suppose keeping a high score and having the Knight admit defeat is what's supposed to keep you playing. That magna save has yet to work for me on Android, though.

 

[Eric Qel-Droma]

I liked Black Knight a lot on the Williams PHOF discs. It seems much more difficult on iOS/Android to me.

Personally, I'm glad to see some of the older tables available, especially ones that are historically significant. I kind of take a second play field for granted (and have for years)... to the point that I'm always a little disappointed if I don't get extra flippers or a two-tier game. I will say, though, that the older tables are much easier to take because we have the newer ones, as well. I can hardly play Gottlieb PHOF because the tables are almost exclusively old and outdated. At the same time, it's kind of fun to take a trip back in time and play an older table for a while.

And if I ever have to play Jive Time again... UGH.

 

[Matt McIrvin]

Black Knight isn't my favorite, but I think the bugs and scripting deficiencies in the current TPA version are detracting somewhat from the actual table's appeal. I'd like to see an overhaul with ROM emulation.

Long before I'd played much pinball, I knew about Black Knight, because I'd read a great old article in Science 80 magazine about arcade game development that followed a pinball project and a videogame project in parallel: Black Knight and Star Castle! When I went to Funspot a few weeks ago I got to play Black Knight and Star Castle in the same room (I'd forgotten about the thunderous bass in Star Castle's sound effects, which really makes the game).

I remember the article speculated about whether Black Knight or Star Castle was the future, and concluded somewhat wistfully that the videogames were probably going to win. That arcades themselves would nearly die out would probably have been beyond the author's comprehension.

 

[Kolchak357]

I won't use the word worst, so let me just say Black Hole is my least favorite table so far. It just doesn't feel like the real thing to me.

 

[superballs]

Ripley,

Honestly, I can't bring myself to like it.

 

[Nik Barbour]

I've never seen a pinball table I didn't want to play with!
I like all the TPA tables so far, and couldn't call any "the worst", but the one I'm slowest to get into is TOTAN. Another slow one was RBION, but someone suggested playing through all goals, and waddayaknow it clicked!
Current favourite is black knight, i love the flow, the speed, the accuracy required, and the brutality (and therefore quick playtime - some tables just play too long). Can't wait to see it emulated as opposed to scripted.
Vive la difference! - wouldn't do for us all to like the same!

 

[Kolchak357]

Ripley,

Honestly, I can't bring myself to like it.

I actually like the play of RBION, but the table is so ugly.

 

[Fuseball]

Now, Black Knight 2000, on the other hand. Now there's a pinball table.

Ah, but Black Knight 2000 so needs an extra flipper on the upper playfield! Fantastic looking game but the left flipper hardly gets used - upper playfield drains to the right flipper and then whack the ball back up the ramp.

Oh and the cheesy '80s rock soundtrack really grates after a while.

Anyway, BK in TPA will hopefully be vastly improved by rom emulation at some point (sound, rules, bugs).

 

[superballs]

I actually like the play of RBION, but the table is so ugly.

I'm sure it will eventually,
I keep trying and just keep leaning toward other tables. I know I stand in the minority in a lot of my opinions though lol, I mean BH is one of my favorites. I've only played a little of BK because I only have the score limited version on iPhone but I do like it (never played it before).

 

[bavelb]

Gorgar....

 

[Storm Chaser]

I think Gorgar and Black hole are much better than Black Knight even though they are older and have less things to do. They just have a "more appealing feeling" to them.

Black Knight just doesn't seem to be a well designed table. For example, if you shoot the Bonus x loop (left to right) there is 1/3 chance it will bump into the outlane. That is just so stupid, you do a great shot and is "rewarded" with a ball lost...

Ripley is not my favorite either. It's quite fun with all the things you can do but is not very well balanced. E.g. the Asia-continent can easily be finished with one good shot whereas North America etc takes 6 quite difficult shots... but that's a different story.

I love those long play-tables (MM, TheatreOfMagic etc are my favorites!)...

 

[Shaneus]

I prefer the older ones much more. Watching some tournament footage in various docos, there's nowhere near as much excitement when people are holding balls and hitting specific loops systematically and slowly... it doesn't come off as fun. Give me something like BK where you have to be on your toes 100% of the time. It rewards reflexes and attentiveness the entire game. Rarely any major pauses either, especially compared to almost all the DMD games.

 

[Fuseball]

Black Knight just doesn't seem to be a well designed table. For example, if you shoot the Bonus x loop (left to right) there is 1/3 chance it will bump into the outlane. That is just so stupid, you do a great shot and is "rewarded" with a ball lost...

That's what multiball is there for!

I tend to use multiball for attempting those high risk shots (see also MM castle, AFM saucer, MB Frankenstein or Drac). A good fast shot round the multiplier loop should head neatly into the left inlane. Maybe 1/10 bobbles around and into the outlane. Once the buttons are repositioned then you can always use the magnasave if you're worried about an outlane drain.

I'm with Shaneus on this. I find many modern games too disrupted by pauses and long animations (I'm looking at you CV!). It's probably why I find a lot of the alphanumeric games are the perfect balance of rule depth and non-stop action, and also why I like Steve Richie games so much.

 

[Jay]

Black Knight is a "lather, rinse, repeat" table. But I still enjoy it. The PA implementation needs work. Their version is far easier than the real table, even with the bugs. The real table is brutally unforgiving and wicked fast. Also, the sounds are quite different, not nearly as "in your face." And the knight has more dialogue bits ... plus that unnerving laugh. It's not that easy to knock down each set of targets three times in a single ball. And multiball of course is key to scoring high.

It's true there's not a lot of depth to the gameplay. But it's old-school pinball: hit targets and score as high as you can. It's an endurance contest.

 

[Fuseball]

Just out of curiosity I went back and played the PHOF version of BK. As with the TPA version, it is scripted... although it is quite clearly not the same script.

I had always disregarded the PHOF version as it lacked the multiball build up and light show, but on reflection it is a far more accurate representation of BK than the TPA version (iOS certainly and also what footage I have seen of the console ports).

Things that PHOF gets right that somehow TPA gets wrong...
1. Logic for lighting extra balls and resetting the correct target banks.
2. Sounds for ball release from lock and lower playfield kickout.
3. Timing for mutiball ball release (not releasing kickout and lock simultaneously)
4. Correct lock lights lit.
5. Bonus countdown more in sync with sound and lights.
6. No ball display errors or getting stuck in multiball.
7. Able to see balls and flipper properly behind upper playfield wall.
8. Correct number of extra balls awarded (or at least extra ball logic handed correctly) and lamp lit.
9. Timeout of drop target banks and lit ramps much closer to actual game.

Things that both PHOF and TPA are missing...
1. Missing sounds - lit spinner, echoing ball release, lit inlanes after magnasave.
2. Lighting effects - multiball start, extra ball awarded.

What amazes me is that PHOF got it 95% right and yet TPA appears to be re-scripted by somebody with little knowledge of the game or access to the PHOF scripting logic. BK is not a complicated game but whoever scripted in TPA didn't even bother to refer back to PHOF let alone an actual BK machine. Very disappointing and quite inexplicable.