Zen Pinball FX3 Williams Pinball Volume One

[wolfson]

4 hours ago i got every car and upgraded on GT Sport , so I played Fish Tales for 3 hours on the beta 2 . the feel is so bloody great , visuals great , flippers a little more mucking around , so far I`d buy the first 4 pack right now !!! normally when Zen talk about a new pack it`s out in 4-6 weeks . if they keep on listening to all the feedback and implement most ideas , I think we`re going to have a great baby !!! I can`t wait to see the finished product !!!

 

[relaxation]

Tarek's already topped off at 10 billion+. I'm worried.

He was probably testing for this specifically
http://www.digitalpinballfans.com/s...tection-broken?p=258694&viewfull=1#post258694

Don't think TPA has this fixed yet, a year+ later.

If you can backhand the lock reliably or shoot as precisely as he can, the super jackpots get you to 10B pretty quickly on fish tales, problem is you have to restart multiball 3 or 5 times to get the maximum value SJPs.
(forgive me it's been almost 2yrs since my 9.9999B game)

Haven't touched FX3 yet, How's the backhand to the lock on FT? or backhand to the tunnel on HSII?

 

[SilverBalls]

Seeing stupid high scores less than a week into this beta is troubling. The ball needs to stay wonderfully wild and all the compensations done to the flippers has seemingly brought the game dangerously close to how easy TPA is.

Man this is sad. In the first beta the wild ball and general realistic feel was pretty spot on and what made it feel close to real pinball.

TPA is not the baseline for how these tables should play. Direct comparison to the actual table, or era correct tables in general should be. I fear too many cooks in the kitchen and many are going off of pure memory from years ago. The physics needle started at a good distance in the right direction from TPA and now it’s swinging back.

I really hope Zen can rollback the change (or they could make the current setting a part of a new set of experimental physics maybe, and then rollback the arcade/tornument changes). Then under controlled conditions change the physics with a handful of people who really know their stuff and play a fair amount of real pin.


I need to watch Spacies second video to see what he says.

 

[wolfson]

SilverBalls , Spacies is the one I follow , he always gives you comparisons . it`s great viewing the beta 2 , he explains it in simple terms .

 

[lio]

I think the changes were for the better. I recently played a good amount of time on a real Fish Tales and before the changes it just never felt like I was really in control of the game... some games were ok, most just felt too random.
Maybe FT is not the best choice for judging overall flipper physics given that it does not use standard size flippers.
Funny enough it felt a lot more controlable in vertical screen mode - all of a sudden live catches were a lot more doable... after the update they are easier to do in non-portrait... haven't tried it again in portrait to see if they might be too easy there now...

 

[SilverBalls]

SilverBalls , Spacies is the one I follow , he always gives you comparisons . it`s great viewing the beta 2 , he explains it in simple terms .

I just watched the first half and he gives a brilliant analysis of the physics (from about 9min to 29 mins with a nice summary from 29min to 35min mark), along with what maybe what should be tweaked. Zen should use this as their Bible .

SYT: not sure if you have watched the video but it sounds like Greg describes something along the lines of what you were saying?

Beta 2 link:

 

[wolfson]

SilverBalls , thanks for putting up the link . yes I have watched it . I like Greg , he keeps it simple and always shows comparisons of Zen , VP X & a real table . I`m simple , I don`t worry about scores , trophies or how a table looks . I only ask myself can I play this table . I`m not a great player by any stretch of the imagination , I love playing pinball . with Zen so far it feels great to me , I know we will get improvements , that`s for sure , and the biggest bonus for everyone is , it looks great !!! I know everyone sees the tables in a different light . that`s why I say , keep giving your feedback to Zen , they do listen

 

[blindpeser]

SilverBalls , thanks for putting up the link . yes I have watched it . I like Greg , he keeps it simple and always shows comparisons of Zen , VP X & a real table . I`m simple , I don`t worry about scores , trophies or how a table looks . I only ask myself can I play this table . I`m not a great player by any stretch of the imagination , I love playing pinball . with Zen so far it feels great to me , I know we will get improvements , that`s for sure , and the biggest bonus for everyone is , it looks great !!! I know everyone sees the tables in a different light . that`s why I say , keep giving your feedback to Zen , they do listen

I wonder if Zen should release the tables in 2 versions: Arcade (easier Shots) and Simulation. Then there should be 2 different leaderboards and (almost) everybody should be Happy.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

He was probably testing for this specifically
http://www.digitalpinballfans.com/s...tection-broken?p=258694&viewfull=1#post258694

Don't think TPA has this fixed yet, a year+ later.

If you can backhand the lock reliably or shoot as precisely as he can, the super jackpots get you to 10B pretty quickly on fish tales, problem is you have to restart multiball 3 or 5 times to get the maximum value SJPs.
(forgive me it's been almost 2yrs since my 9.9999B game)

Haven't touched FX3 yet, How's the backhand to the lock on FT? or backhand to the tunnel on HSII?

Nope.

 

[Pinballfan69]

Pinballwiz

That's crazy. Is that supposed to happen?

I agree with Spacies Arcade that the inner ramps are really easy to hit consecutively. I've been looping left and right shots on those inner ramps too easily. Considering that once you get that at some point all you may want to do is hit that and shoot the spinner for the 20-30m score.

Of course my score doesn't reflect that at the moment. If that's a strategy that most could go after, I could see some real high scores coming from a table that should register high scores like that I would think.

For those that already have experience in doing 'Death Saves', This shouldn't be easily done. I still can easily save the ball from outside drains with little or no fear.This causes for longer play sessions and the marathon sessions like the older tables in the Zen library.


I also feel that the ball is still a bit too easy to trap on the flippers. I may be wrong about this but I feel that in most cases that ball around the flippers should be a little harder to trap like most real pins.

On the discussion of taking these tweaks into the the Zen library? I hope you do. Maybe it will be hard to have the choice available for those that like the 'older' physics, I don't like that many table have these marathon sessions because of easy it is to trap the ball and keep the ball in play. Granted there are some difficult tables in the library but it would indeed be interesting to play. Wonder what it would be like for tables that have easy marathon sessions and be a tougher to control around the flippers.

 

[DA5ID]

Did also mention there might be smaller packs/ single tables if that is the condition of any third party licensing (maybe tables such as Indiana Jones - has "Holy Grail" in the interview so looks like they would like to make that as soon as legally possible).

https://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/0...-williams-bally-pinball-fx3-deal-exclusive/#3

SYT maybe you could slip in a question to Mel Kirk asking what his Holy Grail table is when you get him on your podcast in a couple of weeks.

Like that Congo was mentioned along with the Shadow

 

[DA5ID]

He may have just been referencing the Q&A when they stated that they want to include information in the game about significant real world pinball locations such as museums.

Or accessing/scraping data from Pinballmap.com?

 

[Blkthorne]

In the ARGcast podcast at the 13:00 minute mark, they did interview with Mel Kirk and he mentioned Pinbot and Bride of Pinbot were two favorites of his as well.

https://www.retrozap.com/argcast-127-pax-west-2018-interviews-and-pinball-fx3-with-mel-kirk/

 

[shutyertrap]

That interview also confirms that the speculation Jared and I do in our latest podcast (coming soon, or watch it now on BlahCade's YouTube channel) in quite a few ways. Damn we're good!

 

[AndyD]

I just hope they use this opportunity to make these tables more realistic. It already sounds like their well on the way, but also sounds like they may be dumbing it down abit already too. Im a PS4 user so im only going off the various comments made here. I'll be sitting on the sidelines for this for awhile, see how it goes, im not going to repurchase a load of tables just because they might look better (which they do). If they do nail the physics then im probably in, but not if it ends up playing the same as the pinball arcade.

I also fear which way Zen may potentially lean customer wise, their current easier physics base or whether they go for full on as near as possible realistic physics (which most of us on here im sure want). Im sure i read somewhere on here that Pin Arc dwarfs Zen with amount of downloads so numbers wise you would hope for our requirements being met.

Its great that Zen have been given this opportunity, i just hope they use it. The support from all of us is there for them if they meet it. I love the pinball arcade and am more than satisfied with it. Living in the north east of england i dont get the opportunity to play for real very often, PA is as near as i get most of the time. If Zen can do it even better then they will get my full support. I look forwards to the updates.

Ps, wonder if the PS4 might get these demo tables......

Cheers.

 

[Colywobbles]

Small world Andy I’m down the road at Castletown and currently rebuilding my vpin after the disillusionment of TPA and their promise of cab mode followed by the Arcooda fiasco. I scrapped my cab around 4mth ago but kept the 3 screens and accompaniments.
Now that I have tasted the beauty of Zen in full screen it’s back to the drawing board for me and a mate from Biddick Woods with a couple of 4K vpin winter projects planned.
Should you wish to tryout how good a decent vpin feels you are more than welcome to experience mine and I also own 3 full sized real pins TZ, FH and JY.
A mate across the street from me also owns several full sized pins he keeps in his garage and rarely plays so there are probs more in our neighbourhood than the whole of Sunderland/Newcastle combined lol
I am also a PS4/switch owner but after experiencing the glory of a PC in vertical mode if you are a pinaholic like me who knows you may even consider one for yourself after a shot on mine.
Regards Colin

 

[shutyertrap]

PS4 and consoles won't get demo tables due to the cost of submissions and lead times according to an interview I heard with Mel.

Zen is keenly aware of our brand of hard core here, and they know they have to nail it with us if they want to get a high adoption rate. The problem is many people haven't touched a real table in years and are basing physics judgment off either memory or worse, what they are able to pull off in TPA. It's a lot we are asking of their physics engine, to be able to pull off flipper tricks, but these very tricks are not easy to pull off in real life. Even backhanding can be tricky on a real table. So yes, these things should be doable, but they should also require the skill needed to pull them off. I don't have to think about doing a post pass in digital pinball, but on a real table it's amazing how often I mistime it and send the ball in all manner of places I didn't intend.

The most important aspect with getting it right this first time is that it will become the benchmark they use to set all other tables. So I encourage everyone, go find a real table, any table, make that trek if one is not convenient, and then try doing some tricks, see what a dead pass feels like, how high the ball bounces, how much a ball moves when nudging it on the flipper, etc. Then come back and give notes.

 

[wolfson]

I forgot to tell you ,in Zen you can adjust the slant of the table and adjust the rubbers on the out lanes to make it harder , the only problem for those who like leaderboards is , the scores won`t count . take it from me it`s much better . I`ll speculate here , I reckon Zen will put a slider in to make it , easy , hard , extreme , something like Forza and Horizon racing games , they have about 6 different settings , why not ?

 

[wolfson]

I made a mistake ,the operators menu is only in FX2 not in FX3 , I don`t know why not ? in FX2 you can adjust slant , outside rubbers and flipper power , these make the game much better

 

[Zaphod77]

I'm not nearly good enough to abuse the current beta of fish tales. I always feel like i have the chance to, but i just can't seem to manage it. its' definitely still harder then TPA.