(An attempt at) The top 40 TPA players from leaderboard scores

[Mark Miwurdz]

Nice one.

 

[vikingerik]

con: I don't remember for sure but I seem to recall that a 1T score is impossible on STTNG, at least on some platforms.

Well, we can't prove a negative, that it's not possible. All we can prove is that it hasn't happened for at least a few players. But we don't know if TPA categorically can't recognize a trillion rollover, or if it just failed to detect it in each case as can happen for known missable rollovers like CFTBL jackpots.

con: He put up nine of his top-12 scores in a 4-day span between 2014-10-03 and 2014-10-07.

What exactly are those scores? This we actually could disprove, if the cumulative time necessary to earn those scores on the tables literally doesn't fit into 4 days.

 

[Mark Miwurdz]

I got lucky with my 997 billion ST TNG score. I have scored over a trillion a few times, even on the Xbox One.

 

[superdan]

Impressed with the amount of work and time to come up with these calculations. One question, can anyone estimate with a reasonable accuracy the length of time it would take for achieving a high leaderboard score? Perhaps farsight can list a game play length time along with a leaderboard score. Would be interesting if I knew I'd have to commit 40 hours of game play to get a high score on NGG, not that it's going to happen anytime soon.

 

[invitro]

But we don't know if TPA categorically can't recognize a trillion rollover, or if it just failed to detect it in each case as can happen for known missable rollovers like CFTBL jackpots.

Gotcha, thanks. What I couldn't remember or didn't know is if TPA always rejected the 1T rollover for some or all platforms.

What exactly are those scores? This we actually could disprove, if the cumulative time necessary to earn those scores on the tables literally doesn't fit into 4 days.

Here are all of his current high scores (in the top 10,000 or so):

ID TABLE      |   RANK |                SCORE | DATE       |  ORANK | USERNAME             |
19 STTNG      |      1 |    1,890,199,057,550 | 2014-02-25 |      1 | www.vpforums.org     |
20 AFM        |      7 |      644,245,109,590 | 2014-02-25 |      2 | www.vpforums.org     |
30 CP         |     13 |        1,519,065,310 | 2014-02-25 |      5 | www.vpforums.org     |
29 Pin*Bot    |     18 |           37,236,730 | 2014-02-25 |     10 | www.vpforums.org     |
27 SpSh       |     26 |           12,563,870 | 2014-02-25 |     11 | www.vpforums.org     |
42 BRose      |     29 |        2,034,725,710 | 2014-02-25 |     12 | www.vpforums.org     |
41 FT         |     34 |        1,823,610,490 | 2014-02-25 |      7 | www.vpforums.org     |
17 SS         |     39 |        1,763,648,290 | 2014-02-25 |     23 | www.vpforums.org     |
 1 RBioN      |     87 |        1,973,748,810 | 2014-02-25 |     74 | www.vpforums.org     |
43 BK2K       |      1 |       71,200,687,840 | 2014-10-07 |      1 | www.vpforums.org     |
25 CentPark   |      6 |               16,899 | 2014-10-07 |      5 | www.vpforums.org     |
 3 BH         |      6 |          136,951,830 | 2014-10-07 |      6 | www.vpforums.org     |
33 GoinNuts   |      7 |           13,942,700 | 2014-10-07 |      5 | www.vpforums.org     |
21 Genie      |      7 |           10,082,510 | 2014-10-07 |      5 | www.vpforums.org     |
23 FirePwr    |      7 |            6,596,640 | 2014-10-07 |      5 | www.vpforums.org     |
16 BigShot    |      9 |            1,489,570 | 2014-10-07 |      7 | www.vpforums.org     |
 9 Gorgar     |      9 |           11,631,890 | 2014-10-07 |      8 | www.vpforums.org     |
ID TABLE      |   RANK |                SCORE | DATE       |  ORANK | USERNAME             |
11 BK         |     12 |          219,875,640 | 2014-10-07 |     11 | www.vpforums.org     |
35 HH         |  24115 |               20,430 | 2014-10-07 |  18193 | www.vpforums.org     |

And just to be sure, I know the 2014-10-07 scores were made since 2014-10-03, because I have a data set for 2014-10-03 that does not have those scores. I might as well and paste his scores on 2014-10-03:

mysql> select * from tpa_leaderboard where username='www.vpforums.org' and date >= '2014-10-03' and date < '2014-10-07';
+---------+----------------+------+------------------+---------------+------------+
| tableid | tableabbr      | rank | username         | score         | date       |
+---------+----------------+------+------------------+---------------+------------+
|       1 | Ripleys        |   83 | www.vpforums.org |    1973748810 | 2014-10-03 |
|       3 | BlkHole        |   12 | www.vpforums.org |      45708460 | 2014-10-03 |
|       9 | Gorgar         |   23 | www.vpforums.org |       3466590 | 2014-10-03 |
|      11 | BlackKnight    |   18 | www.vpforums.org |     123973970 | 2014-10-03 |
|      16 | BigShot        |   31 | www.vpforums.org |        600080 | 2014-10-03 |
|      17 | ElviraSS       |   31 | www.vpforums.org |    1763648290 | 2014-10-03 |
|      19 | StarTrekTNG    |    1 | www.vpforums.org | 1890199057550 | 2014-10-03 |
|      20 | AttackFromMars |    4 | www.vpforums.org |  644245109590 | 2014-10-03 |
|      21 | Genie          |    9 | www.vpforums.org |       5827550 | 2014-10-03 |
|      23 | FirePwr        |   11 | www.vpforums.org |       4595110 | 2014-10-03 |
|      25 | CentralPark    |   15 | www.vpforums.org |          9017 | 2014-10-03 |
|      27 | SpaceShuttle   |   17 | www.vpforums.org |      12563870 | 2014-10-03 |
|      29 | PinBot         |   17 | www.vpforums.org |      37236730 | 2014-10-03 |
|      30 | ChampionPub    |   10 | www.vpforums.org |    1519065310 | 2014-10-03 |
|      41 | FishTales      |   22 | www.vpforums.org |    1823610490 | 2014-10-03 |
|      42 | BlackRose      |   24 | www.vpforums.org |    2034725710 | 2014-10-03 |
+---------+----------------+------+------------------+---------------+------------+
16 rows in set (0.05 sec)

 

[invitro]

One question, can anyone estimate with a reasonable accuracy the length of time it would take for achieving a high leaderboard score? Perhaps farsight can list a game play length time along with a leaderboard score. Would be interesting if I knew I'd have to commit 40 hours of game play to get a high score on NGG, not that it's going to happen anytime soon.

I would like to know this too! Data like how many hours it takes to get a top 500, top 100, top 20, #1 score, per table.

I have been recording some of my game times lately. I should start taking notes when the top players say how long it took them for a certain score. I know it took me 12 (+/- 1) hrs for my FH 1.193B #7 score.

It would be great if Farsight reported this, but I wouldn't be surprised if game time wasn't stored.

I have been mulling an idea a little bit. Apparently, some people would have even higher scores, but they quit after playing for 5 hr or 15 hr or some other ridiculous amount of time. Perhaps players should not be penalized for doing that. Maybe a good scoring system would treat all scores that took longer than, say, 5 hr, the same. To make that work, one would have to have a good idea of what a "typical" score by a player (playing a good strategy) had after 5 hr, for each table. Well, I don't know if it's a good idea. Probably the feedback here should be limited to players who can actually play that long on a regular basis .

 

[JPelter]

I would like to know this too! Data like how many hours it takes to get a top 500, top 100, top 20, #1 score, per table.

I have been recording some of my game times lately. I should start taking notes when the top players say how long it took them for a certain score. I know it took me 12 (+/- 1) hrs for my FH 1.193B #7 score.

It would be great if Farsight reported this, but I wouldn't be surprised if game time wasn't stored.

I have been mulling an idea a little bit. Apparently, some people would have even higher scores, but they quit after playing for 5 hr or 15 hr or some other ridiculous amount of time. Perhaps players should not be penalized for doing that. Maybe a good scoring system would treat all scores that took longer than, say, 5 hr, the same. To make that work, one would have to have a good idea of what a "typical" score by a player (playing a good strategy) had after 5 hr, for each table. Well, I don't know if it's a good idea. Probably the feedback here should be limited to players who can actually play that long on a regular basis .

A lot of this will cease to be a problem if we get a well made tournament mode and leaderboard system. Even the best of tables stops being fun after a certain number of hours on a single game, and I for sure would switch over to that game mode once/if we get it.

 

[vikingerik]

Gotcha, thanks. What I couldn't remember or didn't know is if TPA always rejected the 1T rollover for some or all platforms.
Here are all of his current high scores (in the top 10,000 or so):

Ok, that doesn't rule out legitimacy. All those are possible within a few hours each. Frankly they do look legit, unless it does turn out that a trillion on STTNG is impossible to recognize except by hacking.

I have been mulling an idea a little bit. Apparently, some people would have even higher scores, but they quit after playing for 5 hr or 15 hr or some other ridiculous amount of time. Perhaps players should not be penalized for doing that. Maybe a good scoring system would treat all scores that took longer than, say, 5 hr, the same.

I did try to propose such a thing this thread months ago. I'm all for it. Just let the top players agree among themselves when to consider a table infinityable and beaten.

 

[vikingerik]

I would like to know this too! Data like how many hours it takes to get a top 500, top 100, top 20, #1 score, per table.

Here's a rough rundown based on my memory, of what I've done and a decent guess at top ten. Only covers tables I've done so not most of seasons 3-4.

AFM: 4 hours for my 856M, 3 hours for top ten 589M

Big Shot: 1 hour for my 937K and top ten 1300K

Black Hole: 6-7 hours for my 191M, 4 hours for top ten 89M

Black Knight: 5-6 hours for my 125M, 10+ hours for top ten 229M

BSD: 1.5 hours for my 40B, 1 hour for top ten 24B

Bride: who the hell knows, at least 12 hours, everybody goes infinite here

Cactus Canyon: 3 hours for my 2.2B, 1.5 hours for top ten 1.2B

Centaur: 5 hours for my 136M, 2-3 hours for top ten 48M

Central Park: 30 minutes for my 8500 and top ten 10500

Champion Pub: 3 hours for my 5.3B, 1 hour for top ten 1.8B

Cirqus Voltaire: 3-4 hours for my 1B and top ten 940M

Class of 1812: 2 hours for my 267M, 1.5 hours for top ten 162M

CFTBL: 6-8 hours for my 278B, 2-3 hours top ten for 92B

CBW: 1.5 hours for my 3.2B, don't really know about top ten at 7.2B

Dr Dude: 3-4 hours for my 680M, under 1 hour for top ten at 110M

El Dorado: 1.5 hours for my 8M, 1 hour for top ten at 4.5M

Elvira: 3-4 hours for my 801M, 2-3 hours for top ten at 528M

Firepower: 1.5 hours for my 7.7M and top ten at 5M

Flight 2000: 1 hour for my 14M and top ten at 11M

Funhouse: 6-8 hours for my 3B, 2-3 hours for top ten at 1B

Genie: 1 hour for my 4.5M, 1.5 hours for top ten at 6.6M

Goin Nuts: 2-3 hours for my 11M and top ten at 12M (very rough, I really don't remember playing this one)

Gorgar: 1 hour for my 3.3M, (rough guess) 3 hours for top ten at 10M

Harley: 2-3 hours for my 2.4B, 2 hours for top ten at 1.5B

Haunted House: 2 hours for my 6M and top ten at 4.5M

Medieval Madness: 6 hours for my 8B, 8-10 hours for top ten at 10B (somewhat unsure as I only played Castle Multiball and not sure if the BFTK route scores faster)

Monster Bash: 4 hours for my 41B, 2.5 hours for top ten at 12B (this table scores progressively with Monsters of Rock values)

NGG: 6-8 hours for my 41B, 4 hours for top ten at 6.5B (also progressive scoring)

Pinbot: 3 hours for my 98M, 1.5 hours for top ten at 43M

Ripley's: 4-6 hours for my 24B, top ten is way bugged out with all the 20B glitch scores

Scared Stiff: 3-4 hours for my 2.3B, must be over 12 hours for top ten at 8B, but how you go that long without a game-killing lost ball I don't know

Space Shuttle: 3-4 hours for my 72M, 1.5 or so for top ten at 20M

STTNG: 4-5 hours for my score (says 950M but was actually 1950M) and top ten at 586M

TOTAN: screw this crap

Taxi: 3 hours for my 126M, 1.5 hours for top ten at 65M

Teed Off: really don't remember this one, times vary wildly based on whether you hit some of the multi-billion modes and the doubling

Terminator 2: 4-5 hours for my 20B, 2 hours for top ten at 6B, but you could go faster if you are accurate at never missing when grinding chase loops

Theatre: 3 hours for my 47B and top ten at 28B

Twilight Zone: 12 hours for my 127B, 5-6 hours for top ten at 56B

Victory: 2-3 hours for my 389M and top ten at 293M

Whirlwind: 2-3 hours for my 380M and top ten at 220M

Whitewater: 8-10 hours for my 69B, 3 hours for top ten at 18B

 

[Dedpop]

^^ Thank you for that Erik.
I feel so depressed right now.

 

[JPelter]

*snip*

I agree with the times given as far as I know the tables anyway, although in a few I think viking knows some faster scoring strategies I don't.

 

[Dylan_h]

Here's a rough rundown based on my memory, of what I've done and a decent guess at top ten. Only covers tables I've done so not most of seasons 3-4.

AFM: 4 hours for my 856M, 3 hours for top ten 589M

Big Shot: 1 hour for my 937K and top ten 1300K

Black Hole: 6-7 hours for my 191M, 4 hours for top ten 89M

Black Knight: 5-6 hours for my 125M, 10+ hours for top ten 229M

BSD: 1.5 hours for my 40B, 1 hour for top ten 24B

Bride: who the hell knows, at least 12 hours, everybody goes infinite here

Cactus Canyon: 3 hours for my 2.2B, 1.5 hours for top ten 1.2B

Centaur: 5 hours for my 136M, 2-3 hours for top ten 48M

Central Park: 30 minutes for my 8500 and top ten 10500

Champion Pub: 3 hours for my 5.3B, 1 hour for top ten 1.8B

Cirqus Voltaire: 3-4 hours for my 1B and top ten 940M

Class of 1812: 2 hours for my 267M, 1.5 hours for top ten 162M

CFTBL: 6-8 hours for my 278B, 2-3 hours top ten for 92B

CBW: 1.5 hours for my 3.2B, don't really know about top ten at 7.2B

Dr Dude: 3-4 hours for my 680M, under 1 hour for top ten at 110M

El Dorado: 1.5 hours for my 8M, 1 hour for top ten at 4.5M

Elvira: 3-4 hours for my 801M, 2-3 hours for top ten at 528M

Firepower: 1.5 hours for my 7.7M and top ten at 5M

Flight 2000: 1 hour for my 14M and top ten at 11M

Funhouse: 6-8 hours for my 3B, 2-3 hours for top ten at 1B

Genie: 1 hour for my 4.5M, 1.5 hours for top ten at 6.6M

Goin Nuts: 2-3 hours for my 11M and top ten at 12M (very rough, I really don't remember playing this one)

Gorgar: 1 hour for my 3.3M, (rough guess) 3 hours for top ten at 10M

Harley: 2-3 hours for my 2.4B, 2 hours for top ten at 1.5B

Haunted House: 2 hours for my 6M and top ten at 4.5M

Medieval Madness: 6 hours for my 8B, 8-10 hours for top ten at 10B (somewhat unsure as I only played Castle Multiball and not sure if the BFTK route scores faster)

Monster Bash: 4 hours for my 41B, 2.5 hours for top ten at 12B (this table scores progressively with Monsters of Rock values)

NGG: 6-8 hours for my 41B, 4 hours for top ten at 6.5B (also progressive scoring)

Pinbot: 3 hours for my 98M, 1.5 hours for top ten at 43M

Ripley's: 4-6 hours for my 24B, top ten is way bugged out with all the 20B glitch scores

Scared Stiff: 3-4 hours for my 2.3B, must be over 12 hours for top ten at 8B, but how you go that long without a game-killing lost ball I don't know

Space Shuttle: 3-4 hours for my 72M, 1.5 or so for top ten at 20M

STTNG: 4-5 hours for my score (says 950M but was actually 1950M) and top ten at 586M

TOTAN: screw this crap

Taxi: 3 hours for my 126M, 1.5 hours for top ten at 65M

Teed Off: really don't remember this one, times vary wildly based on whether you hit some of the multi-billion modes and the doubling

Terminator 2: 4-5 hours for my 20B, 2 hours for top ten at 6B, but you could go faster if you are accurate at never missing when grinding chase loops

Theatre: 3 hours for my 47B and top ten at 28B

Twilight Zone: 12 hours for my 127B, 5-6 hours for top ten at 56B

Victory: 2-3 hours for my 389M and top ten at 293M

Whirlwind: 2-3 hours for my 380M and top ten at 220M

Whitewater: 8-10 hours for my 69B, 3 hours for top ten at 18B

I don't know how you have the stamina for those runs. I decided the other day to try and better a few of my scores that I haven't touched in ages and ended up playing centaur for something like 4 hours lol. I lost all interest by then and still only ended up around 110.

 

[invitro]

Here's a rough rundown based on my memory, of what I've done and a decent guess at top ten. Only covers tables I've done so not most of seasons 3-4.

MMMMMMERRRRRRRRRRRRY XXXXXXXXXMASSS!!!!!

Thanks so much for the data! Anyone else want to contribute?

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

MMMMMMERRRRRRRRRRRRY XXXXXXXXXMASSS!!!!!

Thanks so much for the data! Anyone else want to contribute?

2.5B on NGG in around 2 hours? Just finished.

I can't remember how long my ~2B on Party Zone was, maybe an hour, 90 minutes? Scoring plateaus on TPZ once you max the ramp and WOC scores, depending on how you choose to score it can be nothing but boring grinds of the ramp for 2M a go (plus infinite EBs).

ES can go on forever; 80-90M takes around 45 minutes, so 100M is probably an hour, and again, scoring plateaus once you're at 99 ramps. So let's call it 100M/hour.

TAF is another with pretty even scoring. 1B can be done in 35-40 minutes. You can also play forever thanks to TTM.

 

[invitro]

Ok, that doesn't rule out legitimacy. All those are possible within a few hours each. Frankly they do look legit, unless it does turn out that a trillion on STTNG is impossible to recognize except by hacking.

OK, I change my mind then... he's back in. Sorry for the back-and-forth, folks.

I did try to propose such a thing this thread months ago. I'm all for it. Just let the top players agree among themselves when to consider a table infinityable and beaten.

I remember you proposing it now. Sorry for the forget. I'm game if you guys decide on something.

 

[Slam23]

Although I have to do some serious back-extrapolation (intrapolation? ) to reduce VikingErik's scores to my more modest scores, a quick math shows that I have the same point-per-hour going on for most tables. I just can't sustain those grinds that long. On some tables the Viking knows and uses quicker scoring strategies, for example I use Whirlpool Challenge as my main point generator on WhiteWater and I know Erik goes predominantly for triple jackpots. Same on Black Hole: I tend to avoid multiball and just grind out the lower playfield to the max, Erik goes for MB which has the potential to score higher but is more difficult to control. In some cases it's definitely a risk/reward judgement (and a difference in skill level too obviously!). I would venture that keeping those grinds going is somewhat of an attention-based skill too. One of my best grinds up until now on Black Knight 2000 fizzled out because I had serious lapses of concentration after playing for what must have been 3 hours straight. So while you could argue that this removes us somewhat of what is central to actually playing pinball, you can't dismiss the fact that besides having superior pinball skills, keeping your attention focused for those time spans is awesome too. I wouldn't consider a game beaten in that sense.
About that STTNG trillion: VikingErik, does your scoring list not validate the point that it doesn't take trillions? Why would your score not be recognised while it does for the other player?

 

[vikingerik]

I don't know how you have the stamina for those runs.

Well, it's rarely straight through. Often play for an hour or two after work, break for dinner, another hour or two, watch TV for a while, break overnight, and so on. Helps to play on a desktop PC which never has any issue with sleeping or suspending or crashing.

Although I have to do some serious back-extrapolation (intrapolation? ) to reduce VikingErik's scores to my more modest scores, a quick math shows that I have the same point-per-hour going on for most tables.

Interpolation is a word.

Yes, most tables converge to a consistent scoring velocity in the long run, once progressive elements like the skyway in Whirlwind and jackpots in CFTBL and Whitewater reach maximum. These are notable exceptions that are always progressive:

Monster Bash: the award for starting Monsters of Rock of 5M per collected instrument escalates unbounded throughout the game. My top game scored over 1B per MOR start from over 200 instruments.

NGG: unlimited progression for jackpots and Holes-in-One

Ripley's: unlimited progression in the continent bonus

STTNG: unlimited progression in Borg jackpots

Theatre of Magic: unlimited progression in bonus. (True for many tables, another example is CV's cannonballs, but only in Theatre does progressive bonus really come to dominate the non-progressive elements.)

Also, there's a per-ball progressive element in the bonus for AFM, MM, MB, CC. Scoring velocity increases with longer time between drains. AFM also has the progressive-within-a-ball Victory Laps.

BSD's Bats value is not unlimited progression, with limited EBs so limited times to collect it.

About that STTNG trillion: VikingErik, does your scoring list not validate the point that it doesn't take trillions? Why would your score not be recognised while it does for the other player?

We don't know, and can't prove unless Farsight tells us, whether STTNG and AFM trillion detection doesn't exist at all or just happened to fail in the few known attempts for myself and Miwurdz.

 

[Fungi]

Well, it's rarely straight through. Often play for an hour or two after work, break for dinner, another hour or two, watch TV for a while, break overnight, and so on. Helps to play on a desktop PC which never has any issue with sleeping or suspending or crashing.

I can never do that. Everytime I stop in the middle of a good game, once I come back, the rest of my game just tanks. My timing and mojo just shift.

 

[vikingerik]

My secret to handle that: I stop only when a big wizard multiball is about to begin, and use that multiball as low-risk time to settle back in later. So I start a session with LITZ or RTU or Spider Mania or Hole-in-One Challenge and by the time it ends, I'm dialed back in. On games without a big wizard multiball, the stopping point is usually the "quick" version of multiball, like Funhouse's or Whirlpool Challenge, since that's lower stakes than the main multiball.

It does take discipline to walk away as the wizard mode is about to begin, but I've been used to doing that forever, going back to 24-hour marathons on Pro Pinball The Web and BRUSA.

 

[Fungi]

Oooooh. I like this. Definitely will try.

Thanks