(An attempt at) The top 40 TPA players from leaderboard scores

[relaxation]

Did some excel and regex magic to a set of todays leaderboards, you can see the results here, even without filtering scores everyone is still where they should be.
incase anyone is wondering what the formula means, it sorts the array of values largest to smallest and adds up the largest 34, if there aren't enough just add them all up.

Everytable was rank.avg'd so MSF was only giving ~73pts for a 1st place.

 

[Slam23]

Interesting! So Invitro's list would look exactly like this one if compiled today? Is it possible to get the full excell doc?

 

[relaxation]

Sure, go here for the choice of .xlsx or .csv but the only calculations being done are the sums and rank, I had to cut down the number of running calculations so excel wouldn't hang and some tasks it's not very good at. I cropped all the leaderboards to the top 115, which gives about half a point.

It's not extactly like Invitro's list, the cheaters are still in the list. My guess was leaderboard-cheaters don't own all the tables and the impact would be minimal.

For the most part the placements are true but only when it comes down to 20~40 points you may contest your place, stuff like 4 scores above Tareks on Big Shot impacts most of us and likely his too (may give him the perfect score 3.4K) so exact scores are a little skewed. Around rank 15 is where each step up is worth 3 points or more so 4 people (there were 7 people removed in Invitro's list last time) above you if you're in the top 15 can be a potential problem.

 

[relaxation]

I was zoomed out looking at who scores high with less and I thought that hey wait a minute I could average those ranges and see who has got a suspect high average so that's what I did.

 

[Slam23]

Thanks for the explanation!

 

[Tann]

Did some excel and regex magic to a set of todays leaderboards, you can see the results here, even without filtering scores everyone is still where they should be.

Wow, nice work. I also added the Invitro's Top 100 calculations into the TPA Scorecard (but it's in an ODS file).

However, this isn't as deep as you, as I'm unable to compile the Top itself (I don't know how to do it, and even if, it would require too much process).

I get almost the same results (per table and total), the differences coming from that I've kicked out the cheaters' scores from the database, and that the leaderboards are not truncated.
You have certainly chosen to crop to the Top 115 because a 115th rank gives 0.5 points. Makes no difference for high ranked players, but it becomes important for average players, in the second half of the top (about 10 points difference or so).

It's not extactly like Invitro's list, the cheaters are still in the list. My guess was leaderboard-cheaters don't own all the tables and the impact would be minimal.

It depends. On tables where cheaters steal the first places (Black Hole, Big Shot), it makes a difference.

Black Hole:
Slam23 with cheaters not filtered: 35.95 pts
Slam23 with cheaters filtered: 43.30 pts


With cheaters filtered, compared to last InVitro's Top (December, 27th):

Tarek doesn't get 3400 pts: 3395 pts (+123)
Dizzer2012 gets 3278 pts (+64).
Vikingerik gets 3025 pts (+44).

Here's the 38 scores that I remove from the leaderboards:

--------------------------------------

1,CODERGB,82995004340,psn,"Theatre Of Magic",2015-8-6

2,Lupo23,194051470,ios,"Black Hole",2015-5-21
4,Rob,132478230,android,"Black Hole",2015-5-21
6,Ender,90003520,android,"Black Hole",2015-5-21
21,"The Pinbug Arcade",21734010,ios,"Black Hole",2015-6-9

13,----,10003832740,android,"Ripleys Believe It Or Not",2012-2-24

26,mousear,999999999,android,FunHouse,2015-5-21

1,Lupo23,34797820,ios,Gorgar,2015-6-23
3,Rob,14251050,android,Gorgar,2015-6-23
5,Josef,9702690,osx,Gorgar,2015-8-19
8,"Gerhold Reif",5475310,osx,Gorgar,2015-8-14
9,ThePinbugArcade,4986220,ios,Gorgar,2015-6-23

2,Lupo23,235654140,ios,"Black Knight",2015-6-9
3,Rob,235027720,android,"Black Knight",2015-6-9
4,"The Pinbug Arcade",156931200,ios,"Black Knight",2015-6-9
13,Brazzle,56689420,osx,"Black Knight",2015-8-23

1,Lupo23,87703451,ios,"Big Shot",2015-6-9
2,q-145e31b3-US-en,63038530,psn,"Big Shot",2015-6-9
3,hamjin,60715750,android,"Big Shot",2015-6-9
4,Rob,15251410,android,"Big Shot",2015-6-9
9,pete28cy,1045120,ios,"Big Shot",2015-8-13

1,nuclearkevin,287104538320,psn,"Twilight Zone",2015-8-24
7,"The Pinbug Arcade",118656362850,ios,"Twilight Zone",2015-6-8

2,Rob,17639850,android,Genie,2015-5-20
4,pete28cy,9968535,ios,Genie,2015-8-14
20,"The Pinbug Arcade",4762060,ios,Genie,2015-6-2

6,pete28cy,200360130,ios,"Dr. Dude",2015-8-15

6,"The Pinbug Arcade",5151350,ios,Firepower,2015-5-20
8,ThePinbugArcade,5091220,ios,Firepower,2015-5-20
10,Ender,4972130,android,Firepower,2015-5-20

19,"The Pinbug Arcade",15556070,ios,"Space Shuttle",2015-4-3

1,Lupo23,211080,ios,"Central Park",2014-2-10
2,RixarOOga,37669,pc,"Central Park",2015-6-8
6,"The Pinbug Arcade",12412,ios,"Central Park",2015-6-6
30,ThePinbugArcade,8204,ios,"Central Park",2015-6-6

1,HUFMUF,91139885780,psn,"Teed Off",2014-1-25

9,Lupo23,391360000,ios,Victory,2015-5-8

------------------------------------------

 

[Tarek Oberdieck]

nuclearkevin,287104538320,psn,"Twilight Zone",2015-8-24 is legit. I believe the Glunt scores from the relaxation list too.
What's up with invitro? Holidays?

 

[Tann]

nuclearkevin,287104538320,psn,"Twilight Zone",2015-8-24 is legit.

Really?

Hum, maybe... 8 tables played: #309, #146, #6 (STTNG), #52 (T2), #482, #583, #6 (HS2) and currently #2 on TZ.

What's up with invitro? Holidays?

He will release Top 100 every 2 months now.

 

[relaxation]

yeah I was about to say nuclearkevin was in a HS2 thread recently, Glunt was in the deleted list farsight kept.. I had seen his 58Bn being posted/removed in the past but perhaps that new 76Bn one is true.. really loves that BoP table then.

Glunts PinBot has also been removed in the past, 159,249,920.. perhaps it was restored? profile link

 

[Tarek Oberdieck]

I've had some posts with nuclearkevin and trust in this. Glunt seems a Bot fan only. (Why not JackBot? ) He's often playing Pinbot again, seen in the weekly scores...

 

[Tann]

I've had some posts with nuclearkevin and trust in this. Glunt seems a Bot fan only. (Why not JackBot? ) He's often play Pinbot again, seen in the weekly scores...

Ok, fine, nuclearkevin: not guilty.

 

[relaxation]

Made an adjustment w/ these comments in mind, adjusted xlsx here and you can see the shuffle of names for a before&after here

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Both Tarek and Dizzer have scores over 1 Trillion on CftBL? How is this possible? I'm pretty sure we've established the game doesn't recognize scores over 999,999,999,990. (There are no other outliers, at least with the filter on.)

 

[Tarek Oberdieck]

Both Tarek and Dizzer have scores over 1 Trillion on CftBL? How is this possible? I'm pretty sure we've established the game doesn't recognize scores over 999,999,999,990. (There are no other outliers, at least with the filter on.)

I wondered myself. CftBL does count trillions while STTnG for example doesn't. I've played the safe way and avoided any rollover with a jackpot or super jackpot. Definitely this #1 games become very stupid, only a matter of time, not a matter of skill. I estimate the playing time for 2T at four days...

 

[vikingerik]

A trillion or two on CFTBL is perfectly possible. Just make the KISS shot 16 times per ball to go infinite, and then any score is inevitable with enough time. My 270B was about six hours, so that's perfectly on pace for Tarek's estimation of 2 trillion in four days (say 12 hours per day.)

I bet that STTNG (and AFM) doesn't have any rollover detection implemented and the ROM counts up to 999B internally and TPA just reads that. CFTBL has rollover detection every time past 9B, so it's not really a question of whether a trillions digit exists, it's just counting rollovers and the 100th rollover ends up being a trillions digit.

 

[Tarek Oberdieck]

A trillion or two on CFTBL is perfectly possible. Just make the KISS shot 16 times per ball to go infinite, and then any score is inevitable with enough time. My 270B was about six hours, so that's perfectly on pace for Tarek's estimation of 2 trillion in four days (say 12 hours per day.).

Maybe the time expand a little bit. There are some unknown problems for me during later gameplay. What happens when the jackpot reach more than 10B? My super jackpot doesn't display the first digit in the status report, I've never aimed for him and finished my game when the simple jackpot was a little under 10B. I've boost it up after 5B with center shots only for three or more hours to make the further game faster. Otherwise more time is needed to rollover without jackpots. Don't know if I ever check this out.

I bet that STTNG (and AFM) doesn't have any rollover detection implemented and the ROM counts up to 999B internally and TPA just reads that. CFTBL has rollover detection every time past 9B, so it's not really a question of whether a trillions digit exists, it's just counting rollovers and the 100th rollover ends up being a trillions Digit.

That should be the point.

 

[Slam23]

A trillion or two on CFTBL is perfectly possible. Just make the KISS shot 16 times per ball to go infinite, and then any score is inevitable with enough time. My 270B was about six hours, so that's perfectly on pace for Tarek's estimation of 2 trillion in four days (say 12 hours per day.)

I bet that STTNG (and AFM) doesn't have any rollover detection implemented and the ROM counts up to 999B internally and TPA just reads that. CFTBL has rollover detection every time past 9B, so it's not really a question of whether a trillions digit exists, it's just counting rollovers and the 100th rollover ends up being a trillions digit.

If that last statement is correct, does that also imply that any table that has TPA rollover detection has no scoring limit to it? Because any new table that comes out with rollover limits, is essentially a game of chicken at start: who wants to sacrifice a very good game to go over the next decimal rollover and risks losing it all. We had it with HSII, F14, and now Fireball for example. Or am I missing here something?

On another note: we should have a name for this kind of planning and playing for very high scores because it's very "meta". Just like going "infinite". Like *mimicking a bored teenagers voice* "I can totally, you know like "meta" the sh@t out of this game" or something like that....

 

[Tarek Oberdieck]

If that last statement is correct, does that also imply that any table that has TPA rollover detection has no scoring limit to it? Because any new table that comes out with rollover limits, is essentially a game of chicken at start: who wants to sacrifice a very good game to go over the next decimal rollover and risks losing it all. We had it with HSII, F14, and now Fireball for example. Or am I missing here something?

I think yes, but I wouldn't trust in this.

On another note: we should have a name for this kind of planning and playing for very high scores because it's very "meta". Just like going "infinite". Like *mimicking a bored teenagers voice* "I can totally, you know like "meta" the sh@t out of this game" or something like that....

After playing a few hours the Timeshock Ultra Edition I must say this table is the absolute reference for real pinball skills.
After nearly 20 years. This table is hard and my scores are poor at the moment compared to earlier high scores. I had to learn it again...

 

[vikingerik]

If that last statement is correct, does that also imply that any table that has TPA rollover detection has no scoring limit to it?

I believe this is true. I know of no counterexamples. (Presumably the rollover variable itself has to have some limit, probably a 32-bit int, but nobody's going to roll a table 4 billion times in one game. That would be a score of 40,000,000,000,000,000,000 on CFTBL.)

In fact, the only tables where we actually know of any limits are AFM, STTNG, Road Show, and Frankenstein. (And of course that last is enforced by the ROM itself.) Nobody has reached an unsupported digit on any other tables. It would seem likely that lower-scoring later Williams games like MM or Junkyard could have a 999B ROM cap and no TPA rollover detection for a trillion, but nobody's gotten there to see.

The problem on HSII is the ROM corrupting and crashing, not rollovers, right?

 

[relaxation]

What about that mess, the race to be not exactly 10B, on Fish Tales? I'm not familiar with why the leaderboard is that way on it.