Request Any chances to see more Stern tables in TPA?

[karl]

Now, if they choose to do something like "Metallica", than I could possibly understand your theory, but than again, I'd be mad simply over the fact that "Metallica" is not even close to any of the "premium tables that I'd like to see or/and are deserving at this stage.

Well there are plenty of others who would like to see it. I have it and I find it pretty damn good. All this Apples and Oranges talk is making me dizzy, btw.

Sam tables are not gonna happen anytime soon so why even bring it up

 

[DokkenRokken]

Well there are plenty of others who would like to see it. I have it and I find it pretty damn good. All this Apples and Oranges talk is making me dizzy, btw.

Sam tables are not gonna happen anytime soon so why even bring it up

I think it's a decent table as well. It was used just as an example, nothing more.

 

[ER777]

If Farsight's goal is to accurately replicate the real machine, shouldn't they make TSPP with the Itchy drop targets broken, the garage door opening only halfway, and one of the living room flippers dead? That's how most TSPP machines I've ever seen on location operated.

You've obviously been playing the games on location around me, and here I always assumed your location meant NYC.

...I'd be mad simply over the fact that "Metallica" is not even close to any of the "premium tables that I'd like to see or/and are deserving at this stage.

Metallica is quite good, especially with the new code. If FS was able to emulate the SAM games (as Karl mentioned) it would be an excellent choice to bring to TPA at some point. Edit: Nevermind, already answered as I was posting.

 

[DokkenRokken]

Metallica is quite good, especially with the new code. If FS was able to emulate the SAM games (as Karl mentioned) it would be an excellent choice to bring to TPA at some point.

I never said it wasn't good, I'm saying there are a lot more better Premium type tables than "Metallica" that need to be done first. (http://digitalpinballfans.com/content.php/320-PAF-Top-Ten-Most-Wanted-Table-Poll-Series-THE-RESULTS-ARE-IN!!!)

I also think "Metallica" would struggle with a Kickstater, similar to "T2", but that's just my opinion. I think it could pass, but not with ease.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

I don't think it's smart to just dismiss every other Premium like table, just because "The Addams Family" can't be obtained. I also think most would understand that fact, unless they've got some sort of brain issue. I just highly doubt that people are gonna protest, esp in the event that they choose to Kickstart something like "The Simpsons: Pinball Party". The table is just too popular and too highly requested.

True, but I think common sense tells us "If they CAN get it, than it would be the next table chosen for a Kickstarter. If they CAN'T, then they'd have to move on to another table."

The public is not a forgiving one and does not forget anything anyone has spoken. Many a politician have been ruined for having uttered something without delivering it.

Also, you have an ability to perceive something from someone else's perspective, and you use this frequently (to where you refer to it as common sense). I'd consider that a good thing, but it's not universal. I think that most people who buy The Pinball Arcade buy it to play pinball machines digitally and don't give a rat's butt about Farsight. When it comes to transactions relating to The Pinball Arcade, they are only thinking about themselves and what they can get out of it. Some people want The Addams Family, and anything else would be interpreted as betrayal or dishonesty.

As we're on the subject of The Simpsons here, think about the self-entitlement that Comic Book Guy has. He's constantly talking about how people owe him or how he gets upset when he discovers something isn't ideal. You know there are at least a few people like that waiting for the next Kickstarter from Farsight. Let's then apply the GIFT and the concept of the vocal minority, and the backlash if the next Kickstarter is anything but The Addams Family is all but inevitable.

Oh, and achievements: my son won't touch a game without them. He paid twice the amount for Spelunky on Steam than GoG, just for the Achievements. I will never get that.

That's simple. It's a mark of accomplishment. Remember also that these networks have a number hanging over everyone's account names, meaning someone with a low number can be seen by everybody. Right from when Microsoft implemented Achievements on the original Xbox, these numbers became a mark of social standing on the network. Higher numbers are associated with greater skill (they're not; you have games like Avatar: The Last Airbender that awards points like candy, and you have others, like Sonic Unleashed that will refuse to give them up without a fight) and, presumably, greater respect (they're not; it's just like in the schoolyard, where nobody has the humility to actually respect anyone else).

 

[Kolchak357]

If they came out and said that they are still working on the licensing for Addams but there is still many licensing hurdles to get through. But in the mean time they were able to come to agreement with FOX and are starting a kickstarter for TSPP. People would be jumping for joy and it would breeze through it's goal. I think any backlash would be drowned out by the overwhelming excitement. That's how I see it.

 

[karl]

You are 100% correct, Kolchak. As always you are a wise man. Thumbs up!

 

[pm1109]

Hell give me TSPP and I will forget about TAF for a few months

 

[DokkenRokken]

Hell give me TSPP and I will forget about TAF for a few months

No kidding.

 

[shutyertrap]

Personally, I don't want to see FarSight with their hands out for another Kickstarter at all. Not unless it's treated more like a pre-order, where a $5 donation actually gets you the table. I know they won't do that, but I'm just sayin'.

I would like to see FarSight smooth over the waters some. Put out a few licensed tables on their own, like they did with Elvira and the Universal tables. Show that not every licensed table requires crowd funding. I think that would bring some meaning back to a Kickstarter campaign. I also think that when the time comes to do a SAM Stern, the first one should be entirely on their dime. Show the customers that you can handle that system just fine, showing what a customer can expect from future tables. Then, and only then, Kickstart if needed other tables of the same system.

 

[DokkenRokken]

Personally, I don't want to see FarSight with their hands out for another Kickstarter at all. Not unless it's treated more like a pre-order, where a $5 donation actually gets you the table. I know they won't do that, but I'm just sayin'.

I would like to see FarSight smooth over the waters some. Put out a few licensed tables on their own, like they did with Elvira and the Universal tables. Show that not every licensed table requires crowd funding. I think that would bring some meaning back to a Kickstarter campaign.

I agree, to a point. If it's a big name movie table, than we're going to need a Kickstarter. There's just no way around it. I can't imagine them being able to fully fund something like "Lethal Weapon 3" as easily as a table like "Monster Bash".

I've got no problem with the company doing Kickstarter campaigns, as long as the table is worthy of it. There are so many great movie based tables ("Lethal Weapon 3", "The Shadow", "Last Action Hero", "Demolition Man", "Jurassic Park", etc), and each one is worthy of a Kickstarter, at least in my opinion.

I also think that when the time comes to do a SAM Stern, the first one should be entirely on their dime. Show the customers that you can handle that system just fine, showing what a customer can expect from future tables. Then, and only then, Kickstart if needed other tables of the same system.

I highly doubt this will happen. I'm going to assume that the newer Stern tables are pretty pricey, not to mention if the fans/customers want a high end table, they're gonna have to chip in for it. Again, just my opinion.

 

[shutyertrap]

I highly doubt this will happen. I'm going to assume that the newer Stern tables are pretty pricey, not to mention if the fans/customers want a high end table, they're gonna have to chip in for it. Again, just my opinion.

Cost of the table isn't a factor. FarSight paid big bucks for what we assume was Cactus Canyon. More than a new Stern would cost. Gary Stern is very keen on the idea of working with FarSight to digitize machines, as he sees it as a sales tool. If FarSight could actually figure out how to emulate and run SAM on all the platforms, which is the true hurdle they face, then I think it's just the cost of the licenses. It has been suggested many times over, even among FS employees, that a deal could be worked out with Stern to just put language in their contracts with future licensees to include TPA reproductions. The cost of the license would then become miniscule for FarSight and everybody would be happy.

I agree that there are a great number of movie and TV related pins that would need help funding, but of those, how many would people really be up for funding? Arnold is really expensive, but Last Action Hero is hardly a beloved property or a well thought of pin. Lethal Weapon is a great property, but in my opinion a rather tepid pin. How many times can FarSight dip into the crowd funding well before people go, meh, that last pin was hardly worth it. TAF at least taps into nostalgia, LotR is a deep pin and well respected, but if people had to Kickstart something like South Park? Within a week of playing it they'd have Kickstarters remorse. I think FS would have to pony up for things like Dirty Harry, Johnny Mnemonic, Tales from the Crypt, Judge Dredd, and leave the kickstarters for the AAA titles that aren't going to leave a bad taste in people's mouths from the hype they just can't live up to.

 

[karl]

Please do not shut yer trap, Shutyertrap.(Really bad pun end here)

That was a post that made a lot of sense and I agree with everything. Yes, please make some soft license tables first. They really should, because it will pay off in the long run.

I agree that there is only a few machines that at this point will succeed as a kickstarter. Leaving out Sam games and Disney, We are left with only 3 options for a kickstarter that has a good chance of success in my view : TSPP, LOTR and TAF. We know TAF is hard. Farsight have said LOTR is hard to get, also. Only one game left in my view (after a couple of soft licenses of course )

 

[DokkenRokken]

Cost of the table isn't a factor. FarSight paid big bucks for what we assume was Cactus Canyon. More than a new Stern would cost. Gary Stern is very keen on the idea of working with FarSight to digitize machines, as he sees it as a sales tool. If FarSight could actually figure out how to emulate and run SAM on all the platforms, which is the true hurdle they face, then I think it's just the cost of the licenses. It has been suggested many times over, even among FS employees, that a deal could be worked out with Stern to just put language in their contracts with future licensees to include TPA reproductions. The cost of the license would then become miniscule for FarSight and everybody would be happy.

I agree that there are a great number of movie and TV related pins that would need help funding, but of those, how many would people really be up for funding? Arnold is really expensive, but Last Action Hero is hardly a beloved property or a well thought of pin. Lethal Weapon is a great property, but in my opinion a rather tepid pin. How many times can FarSight dip into the crowd funding well before people go, meh, that last pin was hardly worth it. TAF at least taps into nostalgia, LotR is a deep pin and well respected, but if people had to Kickstart something like South Park? Within a week of playing it they'd have Kickstarters remorse. I think FS would have to pony up for things like Dirty Harry, Johnny Mnemonic, Tales from the Crypt, Judge Dredd, and leave the kickstarters for the AAA titles that aren't going to leave a bad taste in people's mouths from the hype they just can't live up to.

Why was "Cactus Canyon" so expensive?

I know I would personally help fund things like "Lethal Weapon 3" or "Last Action Hero", where I wouldn't give a dime for "Lord of the Rings". I'm also not even sure why Farsight would even WANT to add "South Park"? It's easily one of the most boring, most easiest pinball tables of all time, but I see what you're saying.

(Personally, I thought "Last Action Hero" was a much better pin than "T2".)

 

[karl]

The problem is that you are not the only person they count upon. Last Action Hero and Lethal Weapon 3 is mediocre games to most people and the license in itself is not big enough to carry any weight. If they get them cheap and do not require a kickstarter, fine but they will not succeed as a kickstarter. Time has shown us how hard that is.

About CC, Shutyertrap meant that it is a very expensive machine to get a hold of.(nothing to do with license there)

 

[shutyertrap]

At one point FS had said they spent 11 grand on a table, but didn't specify which. Cactus Canyon was announced soon after. Thus we all assume it was that machine. In the real world, it is also a very expensive pin to buy, due not only to its low production run, but being the last production table made.

Dokken, the point isn't whether LAH is better than T2. So many people that play TPA have limited to no experience playing the real version of these machines. So what it comes down to is the look and the theme appeal. T2 is just a much more appealing property on every level. Better movie, better look to the table, and a Williams machine compared to Data East (which many people, myself included, look at as an immediate strike against!).

As for why FS would want to add South Park? Because the name alone will sell a bunch of copies. Imagine the horror if FS managed to secure the Simpsons license and then put out the Data East table instead of Stern's! And yet they'd still sell a bunch just because of the name. A really interesting experiment would be to see the difference in a Kickstarter for Shrek or Family Guy, since they are the exact same table layout, just different graphics.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

Personally, I don't want to see FarSight with their hands out for another Kickstarter at all. Not unless it's treated more like a pre-order, where a $5 donation actually gets you the table. I know they won't do that, but I'm just sayin'.

That is how a normal Kickstarter works. Kickstarter campaigns see more success when the investors are treated more like pre-orderers than donors. Even then, the most successful ones allow you to get the product at a lower price, get unique and rare perks, or, at the top, allow the investors to directly influence the final product in some way.

I agree, to a point. If it's a big name movie table, than we're going to need a Kickstarter. There's just no way around it. I can't imagine them being able to fully fund something like "Lethal Weapon 3" as easily as a table like "Monster Bash".

I've got no problem with the company doing Kickstarter campaigns, as long as the table is worthy of it. There are so many great movie based tables ("Lethal Weapon 3", "The Shadow", "Last Action Hero", "Demolition Man", "Jurassic Park", etc), and each one is worthy of a Kickstarter, at least in my opinion.

I actually thought Monster Bash would have needed additional funding, but it didn't. That demonstrates Farsight can do licensed tables on its own.

The best way to go about this is to be as independent from Kickstarter, Indie Go Go, or any other source of crowdfunding as possible. If Farsight repeatedly turned to Kickstarter to get licensed tables, what does that say about the company to an outsider? That either Farsight is in big financial trouble or that it squanders money from the previous campaigns.

Kickstarter is not a magic bullet. If not executed tactfully, it's just a regular bullet.

As for why FS would want to add South Park? Because the name alone will sell a bunch of copies. Imagine the horror if FS managed to secure the Simpsons license and then put out the Data East table instead of Stern's! And yet they'd still sell a bunch just because of the name. A really interesting experiment would be to see the difference in a Kickstarter for Shrek or Family Guy, since they are the exact same table layout, just different graphics.

And different audio.

There are actually a few reasons why I believe the South Park pinball machine is good for growing the pinball fanbase, but that's a discussion for another topic.

 

[Tales from the Crypt !!]

Personally, I don't want to see FarSight with their hands out for another Kickstarter at all. Not unless it's treated more like a pre-order, where a $5 donation actually gets you the table. I know they won't do that, but I'm just sayin'.

I would like to see FarSight smooth over the waters some. Put out a few licensed tables on their own, like they did with Elvira and the Universal tables. Show that not every licensed table requires crowd funding. I think that would bring some meaning back to a Kickstarter campaign. I also think that when the time comes to do a SAM Stern, the first one should be entirely on their dime. Show the customers that you can handle that system just fine, showing what a customer can expect from future tables. Then, and only then, Kickstart if needed other tables of the same system.

Or instead of a K.S. they could just charge 10. dollar's for a premium table Would you pay 10 bucks for TAF or the Simpsons i think most would

 

[Kolchak357]

I can't wait to hear complaints about how it's too easy to tour the mansion. To sleep perchance to dream.

 

[ER777]

I never said it wasn't good, I'm saying there are a lot more better Premium type tables than "Metallica" that need to be done first. (http://digitalpinballfans.com/content.php/320-PAF-Top-Ten-Most-Wanted-Table-Poll-Series-THE-RESULTS-ARE-IN!!!)

I also think "Metallica" would struggle with a Kickstater, similar to "T2", but that's just my opinion. I think it could pass, but not with ease.

I can't really agree with saying there are a lot that should come first. Of the premium tables in that list I would only put LOTR and TSPP ahead of Metallica as candidates for TPA. Those two will always be perfect candidates becuase of being both very popular licenses and great machines with very deep rulesets, which is key on TPA with gameplay being easier than the real thing. IJ would be on par with them if it were a possibility, but its really not.

I really don't think Metallica would be an expensive kickstarter either. They really seemed into the idea of having a pinball machine based on them and I think they would be in favor of a video game version reaching even more people. I think its all about ego with them now, since they have piles of money already, so they would probably be reasonable on price for the license. They probably saw other bands like AC/DC having pinball machines made and wanted to one-up them, TPA could be a continuation of that.

One other thing to consider is that Metallica fans are in the age group that has disposable income now, and there are a lot of them out there. With a little promotion it could be the kind of kickstarter that SYT mentioned where a lot of people contribute small amounts rather than a small group of people contibuting heavily. I think a lot of Metallica fans would be willing to part with $5 for a copy of Metallica Pinball on their phone or tablet. It might even bring in a new audience to try some other tables.

Of course this is all moot until SAM games can be emulated so back to TSPP and LOTR for now.. and I guess that TAF game everybody talks about.