Ask Questions of Bobby King and FarSight for July BlahCade Podcast!

[Baltimore Jones]

License expirations are supposedly coming up on TZ and T2 according to the original licensing terms. Are these being extended somehow or will they stop being available for purchase?

 

[vikingerik]

Great point invitro, thanks for bringing that up. One more impossible shot is the STTNG lock lane from a running feed from the left popper, which always reaches the drop target but rattles around and doesn't quite go in. There are more that I haven't rigorously tested to prove impossibility, a couple that come to mind are Gorgar's 1-2-3-4 bank and Black Hole's BLACK targets, at least one of which I think is impossible but don't remember exactly which ones.

Farsight may not realize these shots are not just difficult but actually impossible. It took a while for folks on here to realize and acknowledge it. People have faulty memories on whether they hit it and whether the shot started from a trap. Every one on that list I spent a good ten minutes deliberately testing without a single success. I'm not sure Farsight ever has.

 

[Spork98765]

I would ask Bobby about long out standing bugs that have been reported numerous times, but support@ seems to be unaware of each time it is brought to their attention.

Things like the Pro Modes for Tee'd Off and Cue ball Wizard not having a properly mapped UX that makes changing any settings impossible. This one is just embarassing as it is a paid for feature that hasn't worked since day one.

Another might be the strange "event camera" glitch on TOTAN, HRC, and DD where the view angle will quickly switch back to camera angle one then back to the players selected camera setting.

Or re-apperring problems, like where playing in Pro Mode will delete all the local HSTD data.

Then of course there is the ongoing broken UI in Android where the plunge mechanism is broken for touchscreen and a player can plunge via any spot, below the upper nudge zones, on the screen. as opposed to only being able to plunge from the right flipper touch zone. As it is presently only STTNG is still set-up correctly.

Any info about how/why so many bugs keep sliding into new builds would be "enlightening". Especially when many of the bugs are ones that have been fixed previously.

 

[crazyflipperfingers]

Thank you, thank you for bringing this up again. I thought I was the only one that was being driven crazy by this problem. This shows that the tables do not go through a very thorough testing and these problems really need to be fixed.

SYT, I would very much like to know something about the impossible shots: can they be fixed, why are they difficult to fix, why they exist in the first place. Here is a list of them (are there more?):

ToM, R orbit, from L flipper trap.
AfM, R ramp, from L flipper trap.
HRC, R orbit, from L flipper trap.
FirePwr, bottom Power standup, from L flipper trap.
Taxi, bottom Pinbot drop target, from L flipper trap.
JY, D-O-G ramp, from running L flipper shot.
DrDude, Gift of Gab, from running L flipper shot.
FH, trap door, 'without relying on the "T" target rebound angle'.
HRC: slot machine lane (when the ramp is all the way down), from R flipper trap (maybe).

I made this list from these posts by @vikingerik:
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showt...-harder-in-TPA?p=196116&viewfull=1#post196116
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showt...-harder-in-TPA?p=196102&viewfull=1#post196102
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/8457-Tips-amp-strategies?p=205011#post205011
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showt...TACK-FROM-MARS?p=190264&viewfull=1#post190264

My attempt at a question: "Are you aware that many (important) shots are literally impossible? Like the R orbit in ToM from a L flipper trap, the R ramp in AfM from a L flipper trap, the R orbit in HRC from a L flipper trap, and the D-O-G ramp in JY from a running L flipper shot? If you're aware of these, do you plan to make them possible? Why haven't you done so already... is it a particularly hard fix? Why do these exist anyway?"

I chose those four shots because they are the ones that I've noticed the most, dozens or hundreds of times. I know they have a massively long bug list; I think this should be near the top of it.

 

[Kratos3]

SYT, I would very much like to know something about the impossible shots: can they be fixed, why are they difficult to fix, why they exist in the first place. Here is a list of them (are there more?):

ToM, R orbit, from L flipper trap.
AfM, R ramp, from L flipper trap.
HRC, R orbit, from L flipper trap.
FirePwr, bottom Power standup, from L flipper trap.
Taxi, bottom Pinbot drop target, from L flipper trap.
JY, D-O-G ramp, from running L flipper shot.
DrDude, Gift of Gab, from running L flipper shot.
FH, trap door, 'without relying on the "T" target rebound angle'.
HRC: slot machine lane (when the ramp is all the way down), from R flipper trap (maybe).

I made this list from these posts by @vikingerik:
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showt...-harder-in-TPA?p=196116&viewfull=1#post196116
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showt...-harder-in-TPA?p=196102&viewfull=1#post196102
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/8457-Tips-amp-strategies?p=205011#post205011
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showt...TACK-FROM-MARS?p=190264&viewfull=1#post190264

My attempt at a question: "Are you aware that many (important) shots are literally impossible? Like the R orbit in ToM from a L flipper trap, the R ramp in AfM from a L flipper trap, the R orbit in HRC from a L flipper trap, and the D-O-G ramp in JY from a running L flipper shot? If you're aware of these, do you plan to make them possible? Why haven't you done so already... is it a particularly hard fix? Why do these exist anyway?"

I chose those four shots because they are the ones that I've noticed the most, dozens or hundreds of times. I know they have a massively long bug list; I think this should be near the top of it.

It'll be interesting to see if the flipper physics have any effect on this.

 

[mpad]

It'll be interesting to see if the flipper physics have any effect on this.

That's what I thought.

 

[shutyertrap]

I actually posed that in the question, if the new physics would affect that kind of thing. I tend to believe it will, as I've been playing Big Shot with it, and I seem much more able to aim than I used to. Not 100% about that, but it's the feeling I'm getting.

 

[karl]

Good question!

 

[vikingerik]

I actually posed that in the question, if the new physics would affect that kind of thing. I tend to believe it will, as I've been playing Big Shot with it, and I seem much more able to aim than I used to. Not 100% about that, but it's the feeling I'm getting.

This is very possible to be just generally improving at TPA, though. I often find on going back to a table I haven't played in a while (6-12 months), I find myself surprisingly more able to aim and hit shots. Happened noticeably on Co1812 and Teed Off in the PC tourney, and when Ripley's was TOTW.

I'm skeptical that the new flipper physics are anything more than a couple "if" statements that make railroads for drop and live catches. Still an improvement but no miracle worker, I don't expect it will make any difference on the unshootable shots. I will try to remember to try out Big Shot sometime soon, though pretty busy this week.

 

[shutyertrap]

The shots for me on Big Shot I don't remember being able to get are the 7 and 15 drop targets. Now I can get them a fair amount of times. Also it is noticeable when flipping off the tip that balls don't rocket at full speed. I'll let you do the rigorous testing though!

 

[Kolchak357]

With Zen making a Family Guy pin, is a Stern Family Guy pin recreation no longer a possibility.

 

[shutyertrap]

With Zen making a Family Guy pin, is a Stern Family Guy pin recreation no longer a possibility.

Yes and no. Technically there is nothing stopping them from making it, or South Park, or The Walking Dead, or any Marvel table. The problem comes from the license holders, who more than likely wouldn't want two of the same product on the market at the same time. More to the point, why would you want an older version out when a new version is available? If FarSight wants the Simpsons, they'd better make a play for it before Zen does.

And no, I don't mean by having a kickstarter. What is the difference in economics with licensing between FarSight and Zen? Ignore the deeper pockets, at the end of the day you still have to make a profit on the table. Zen doesn't charge any more then TPA, yet locks down all these licenses. Is the difference that FarSight also has to pay the WMS or Stern license too? As we move into season 5, I'll be very curious to see how many licenses FarSight adds, but I'd really like to see them secure a big giant one without crowdfunding. If they can do that, the idea of modern Stern tables coming to us just might be that much closer to a reality.

 

[invitro]

Is the difference that FarSight also has to pay the WMS or Stern license too?

I'd guess that Zen pays its programmers a lot less to develop its tables.

 

[Gorgar]

Yes and no. Technically there is nothing stopping them from making it, or South Park, or The Walking Dead, or any Marvel table. The problem comes from the license holders, who more than likely wouldn't want two of the same product on the market at the same time. More to the point, why would you want an older version out when a new version is available? If FarSight wants the Simpsons, they'd better make a play for it before Zen does.

And no, I don't mean by having a kickstarter. What is the difference in economics with licensing between FarSight and Zen? Ignore the deeper pockets, at the end of the day you still have to make a profit on the table. Zen doesn't charge any more then TPA, yet locks down all these licenses. Is the difference that FarSight also has to pay the WMS or Stern license too? As we move into season 5, I'll be very curious to see how many licenses FarSight adds, but I'd really like to see them secure a big giant one without crowdfunding. If they can do that, the idea of modern Stern tables coming to us just might be that much closer to a reality.

With the rumors of a Zen/Stern deal, do you think that Zen's Family Guy could actually be a recreation of the Stern version?

 

[francis247uk]

That's certainly an interesting topic.

If you look at Pinball Arcade on Facebook, Pinball Arcade actually has 12,000 more likes then Zen currently, (29,000 to Zens 17,000) however how that translates into sales each month I would be unsure.

One thing I always notice is that Zen seem to get loads more coverage on more mainstream gaming sites (IGN, Kotaku etc) whenever they release a licensed themed table, whereas Farsight barely get a notice.

I think maybe a break down of exactly who requires what for future kickstarters would be appreciated, rather then a flat figure. Atleast that way the whole licensed table funding process would be a bit more transparent.

 

[shutyertrap]

So I just watched yet another video for Lego: Dimensions and you have to wonder about how much they are spending on IPs. Game has Batman, LotR, Simpsons, Harry Potter, Dr Who, Portal, Back to the Future, and who knows what else. The expansion packs are going to be costly, I think I heard $30. Here's the question...Lego is a big enough brand of its own that companies come to them, so does Lego wind up spending less on the IPs? Is is a holdover from when they got the license for when they were making actual sets and not a game? Travelers Tale makes the game, but are they merely hired by Lego? Because at this point it seems all they make are Lego games.

Furthering this along, does any of that parlay into what FarSight and Zen go through? What if Stern = Lego to FarSight = Travelers Tale? Does TT have to do any of the heavy lifting for getting IPs or is it all Lego? Do companies approach Zen since they can do originals, offer up a bit of a discount? New contracts easier to deal with than digging up old ones?

I swear I could talk to Bobby for hours about licensing, and I'd still probably come away with questions. It's such a sticky, mucky, messy thing, yet I am endlessly fascinated with it, and have been for years in terms of movie and tv rights properties. I don't envy people that have to untangle the mess some of these things get split up into, and I always do a small victory cheer when something does get untangled.

 

[shutyertrap]

One thing I always notice is that Zen seem to get loads more coverage on more mainstream gaming sites (IGN, Kotaku etc) whenever they release a licensed themed table, whereas Farsight barely get a notice.

Why it's smart to hire a good PR person. FarSight seems to rely on its newsletter, Facebook, and the this fan forum. These are great ways of communicating directly to your fan base, but absolutely horrible for getting new customers. Imagine if they were able to nurture a relationship with IGN and Kotaku, then announcemets regarding tables, physics, lighting, whatever, would be constant news. Makes me wonder if there are any pinball fans working for those sites.

 

[jaredmorgs]

I'd guess that Zen pays its programmers a lot less to develop its tables.

Devs don't work for peanuts. I don't think this is the reason.

 

[invitro]

Imagine if they were able to nurture a relationship with IGN and Kotaku, then announcemets regarding tables, physics, lighting, whatever, would be constant news. Makes me wonder if there are any pinball fans working for those sites.

I searched for "pinball" at kotaku, and clicked through to many articles about TPA / Zen. The articles on Zen seemed to have many, many more hits / comments than the ones on TPA. If this is correct, it makes sense that kotaku would post more articles about stuff that their readers are more interested in.

I think kotaku's (and all video game websites) readers are very, very young, and have much more interest in licensed themes (check out the articles on comic book character Zen tables) than general pinball players, and this is why they favor Zen.

 

[invitro]

Devs don't work for peanuts. I don't think this is the reason.

Oops, I see where what I wrote looks like a per-hour statement. I meant it to be about the total dollars paid to the set of programmers per table, which is more a statement about hours than per-hour rates. The reason I say this is that the quality of TPA's tables is much, much higher than that of Zen (which hopefully is an objective result by now ).

I am curious though what the FS progs make... can't be all that much, based on the post Reitmeyer made about his tiny house , and on the very poor value of the dollar in California...