DLC Release Date

[Ozzpot]

Each time the update has been resubmitted so far, it has contained additional code for one more DLC pack (menu assets and other supporting code, not the tables themselves) than the previous submission. Since this new code was not tested as part of the previous submission, the whole clock starts over again.

I do not know whether FarSight could shorten the time for the next submission by not including the code for DLC #4 or making any other alterations (other than those needed to fix the memory card issue).

Surely there is a case for Microsoft "fast-tracking" the process by now though, because it is getting ridiculous and with every week that passes they are themselves potentially not only losing money but customer base. I know for a fact they can get it done in 2 weeks.

 

[Mike Reitmeyer]

It takes a minimum of 2 weeks for Microsoft to test it, sometimes longer. No matter what we change, they do an entire certification test on the game. Asside from that, we also need time to make the change, then do internal testing to make sure nothing broke, which adds a few days to a week.

Please don't forget that Microsoft is Zen's publisher, so its more likely they would fast track a submission from them then a non first party published title.

 

[pinbot-76]

I wonder if it's worth scrapping the Xbox DLC altogether and just put out the content on disc at a later date.

 

[Richard B]

It takes a minimum of 2 weeks for Microsoft to test it, sometimes longer. No matter what we change, they do an entire certification test on the game. Asside from that, we also need time to make the change, then do internal testing to make sure nothing broke, which adds a few days to a week.

Please don't forget that Microsoft is Zen's publisher, so its more likely they would fast track a submission from them then a non first party published title.

Does this mean they rejected the idea of postponing the fix until the next update?

 

[lettuce]

This DLC coming out has been 4 month in the waiting we know what has failed MS certiciation this time but what about the other times?. As you stated Mike it takes a minimum of 2 weeks for MS to go through their process so lets say 3 weeks on averager so MS have rejected your submission 4-5 times. So what were the problems these 3-5 times?

 

[Dutch Pinball ball]

Zen is the only reason of these delays.

MS just cant stand to be owned. It shows they lack sportmensship and are bad losers.

 

[Kitten with C4]

Zen is the only reason of these delays.

MS just cant stand to be owned. It shows they lack sportmensship and are bad losers.

Can't tell if you are sarcastic or serious, but if serious, that is a delusional thing to say.

 

[Mike Reitmeyer]

Does this mean they rejected the idea of postponing the fix until the next update?

No not yet, we're still discussing with them. Hopefully they will let us fix it in the next patch.

This DLC coming out has been 4 month in the waiting we know what has failed MS certiciation this time but what about the other times?. As you stated Mike it takes a minimum of 2 weeks for MS to go through their process so lets say 3 weeks on averager so MS have rejected your submission 4-5 times. So what were the problems these 3-5 times?

2 weeks is a minimum. Most of the time is 3 weeks or more. There is also a week for us to make a submission, test it and submit. Then sometimes we have to wait for an "appointment" date, which can take up to a week. Expect 3-5 weeks per submission.

 

[bavelb]

Interesting article for those who want to read about patching process on XBLA, the costs and procedures involved.

http://www.giantbomb.com/news/the-rabbit-hole-that-is-life-after-fez/4275/

Like everyone else, Polytron had no control over the release date and price of Fez. It could “influence” the decision, not make it. While it mostly got what it wanted (April 13, lower price point), there was always the chance that Microsoft could have done whatever it wanted. This has been a common criticism of Microsoft’s XBLA program, including the decision to have slots that are, essentially, privately bought and sold between publishers.

Two, a number of issues post-release prompted Polytron to work on a patch. Releasing a patch on XBLA costs $40,000, according to Fish (Double Fine’s Tim Schafer has separately mentioned this figure). Microsoft gave Polytron a pass on the first patch, but when the patch was approved by Microsoft certification, released to the masses and caused a small number of users to lose their saved progress, Microsoft pulled the patch.

A follow-up patch will now cost Polytron $40,000. That patch is not yet released.

“It’s this whole certification process that Microsoft has, which is in place to ensure there’s a certain level of quality in the games,” he said. “They don’t want games to be constantly patched all the time, and I understand the reasoning for that, but god damnit, it takes forever, it costs a fortune--you have to pay them for it--and it doesn’t work.”

 

[Richard B]

Interesting article for those who want to read about patching process on XBLA, the costs and procedures involved.

http://www.giantbomb.com/news/the-rabbit-hole-that-is-life-after-fez/4275/

$120,000 down the crapper?

 

[bavelb]

$120,000 down the crapper?

I assume not as it states 40.000 per patch if its approved right away, not 40.00 per submission.

 

[mmmagnetic]

...and people call the iOS app store draconic. Sure, you can get apps pulled for reasons some people might call unreasonable, but at least you´re not getting financially drained when you´re putting stuff on there.

Really makes me think that the whole console market deserves a nice, brutal shake-up.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

Interesting article for those who want to read about patching process on XBLA, the costs and procedures involved.

http://www.giantbomb.com/news/the-rabbit-hole-that-is-life-after-fez/4275/

Oh wow. Between this and that old TCR documentation linked to earlier, I'm surprised smaller developers are willing to work under these conditions at all. I certainly wouldn't be.

 

[Richard B]

I assume not as it states 40.000 per patch if its approved right away, not 40.00 per submission.

Still, that means FS loses $40,000 every time they add new tables?

 

[phantomfriar2002]

At this point, they should "re-launch" TPA for Xbox -- with new DLC packs and the updates -- when they're ready at one time, even if it's literally months from now. Not in drips and drabs, assuming we eventually get those, because this isn't doing anyone any good right now. I'd be happier knowing there was going to be one big huge "new TPA" coming in the fall with all the DLC up to that point and the lighting updates instead of this very frustrating system of false hope and continual delays. Even if one thing gets accepted, you can see this happening again -- then another huge chunk of delays following -- given FS' issues with MS' approval process and the like. That's not going to be good for FS or consumers, and will only spread more negative word of mouth about the product.

 

[Richard B]

At this point, they should "re-launch" TPA for Xbox -- with new DLC packs and the updates -- when they're ready at one time, even if it's literally months from now. Not in drips and drabs, assuming we eventually get those, because this isn't doing anyone any good right now. I'd be happier knowing there was going to be one big huge "new TPA" coming in the fall with all the DLC up to that point and the lighting updates instead of this very frustrating system of false hope and continual delays. Even if one thing gets accepted, you can see this happening again -- then another huge chunk of delays following -- given FS' issues with MS' approval process and the like. That's not going to be good for FS or consumers, and will only spread more negative word of mouth about the product.

They aren't having trouble with the DLC getting approved, it is due to the title update that is causing the delay. They have extremely strict requirements, and failing to meet a single one means rejection. FS has had to learn this the hard way, but from what I've read, they're not the first. This struggle is not uncommon, especially if they are new to Live Marketplace. This last rejection was painful, since it was over such a ridiculously stupid error that probably .000001 percent of their users will ever legitimately see, but there's not much we can do about it.

 

[Franky]

MS just cant stand to be owned. It shows they lack sportmensship and are bad losers.

it's so hard not to comment on such stupid stuff. MS are losers? in what? in making zillion million dollars every year? and they are jealous about what? a completely different 5 dollar pinball game? People seem to forget that microsoft ignored the 4mb "bug" farsight made, they made an exception just for them - but i haven't read any "thanx microsoft" posts in here back then. Instead it's hate against microsoft for failures farsight made. To be a fan means to be objective. And as i already said in another post - if microsoft doesn't want another pinball game than there would be none.

A follow-up patch will ... cost ... $40,000.

They didn't pay for the first patch $ 40.000 it's the price for the follow-up patch. Microsoft wants to avoid patching all the time, if you do it right the first or second time you don't have to pay $ 40.000. All their measures are in favor for their company (which is professional) and for the consumers (which i like very much). A pain in the a... for Developers right, but hard lessons are the best lessons. You get better and more carefully with every project you make - and thats a good thing. People all over the net complaining about bugs in games and on the other hand the complaining about a company who tries to avoid bugs by charging on constantly patching. To fit everyone's needs is an impossible thing.
And one more thing about the 40K, don't forget microsoft brings a customer base of several million people - so charging quite a bit is not only normal it is just fair. Farsight is reaching millions of people because of microsoft. It's like inventing a new burger and getting the permission to sell it via mcdonalds.

ridiculous bug

and stopp saying it's a ridiculous bug, because it's not. it's a quality standard - if something gets disconnected a pop up window needs to appear. there is nothing stupid about it - it's a quality frame. You think it's not necessary because it doesn't happen very often - so we don't need it anyway - what if another company thinks: "ok, it's completely irrelevant to the game to use the colors green/white - we use gold/silver for the xbox related stuff. Another company thinks, actualy it is quite unnecessary to use the color green for the "A" Button because it says "A" anyway, we use the colour purple, and on and on and on and on.....

It would be a total chaos, there have to be guidlines to be sucessful and to be, and to create, a brand. All the small things are useless and unnecessary in a way but they are needed to asure quality. And the fact is, as mike said, farsight have forgotten it. So there is no need for all the hate against microsoft. Because what i've learned so far is, it takes quite a while to bring the content to the consumer but microsoft also have been very cooperative in the past.

It's very funny how you guys picking out the bad stuff just to have someone else to blame and leave the good stuff unnoticed. And in terms of farsight, picking out some rare highlights and totaly fade out the bad stuff - objectivity is the key.

i'm really curious to see what will happen if microsoft makes another exception on ANOTHER bug farsight made - if it will be "thanx microsoft" or "congratulations farsight".

 

[The Amazing Psych-Man]

I have some serious complaints about the Xbox360 version of The Pinball Arcade.

I personally like to unplug the power cable of the 360 whenever I'm loading TPA. You won't believe it, but EVERY single time I pull the power cable the screen goes black and the game never starts -- and there is no error window at all telling me the problem. I've tried it time and time again and I have yet to be able to play a single game of TPA on the 360.

A friend of mine likes to smash his 360 with a sledgehammer every time he tries to load TPA. Oddly, he has the same problem of the screen going black and not getting to play TPA. I guess I should consider myself lucky as I don't have to constantly replace my 360 but it does seem strange that both of us are having a similar problem.

I tried to research this a bit but the only thing I found that was even similar was from someone who likes to submerge their 360 in a tub of water before playing TPA -- that guy can't even get his 360 to boot up much less get to the screen where you load the game.

All 3 of theses issues should be fixed by FarSight immediately. I can't believe microsoft would even let a game with these bugs through their rigorous testing procedure.

What else will they tell me I can't do to my 360 while playing TPA?? I wonder if filling the 360 with cement will cause TPA to not run properly -- all I know is, it better because I'm counting on winning some back alley TPA tournaments on my 360 to pay for this cement.

 

[bavelb]

No Franky, each patch costs 40.00. In my example the Fez developer will have to pay 80.000. Again, feel free to read that part again.

In regards to objectivity, pot meet kettle. Please don't claim you are objective, none of your posts sofar have showed any objectivity. The cherrypicking of parts of posts and articles, then disregarding the rest of the message is the biggest offense there, as every reply to you I have to ask you to read posts again as you seem to take a part out of them, and twist it to your version of the truth. The worst part of it is the patronizing tone in which you choose to deliver your message. Most of us are critical adults here if they forum survey regarding age is to be believed, so feel free to approach us like that. Just because we disagree with your viepoints doesn't mean we are sulking teenagers that need to be put in their place.

I already replied to you before I refuse to go into a discussion with you because of this tone especially, but if this keeps up I don't think any sort of discussion on the facts is possible as Ill mostly be replying to the tone behind them and probably will just plain out put you on ignore. Don't get me wrong, this isn't a " threat" but rather a reason upfront why I might not be replying to your posts in the future anymore.

 

[xNiCeGuYx]

So next kickstarters will be for patches? Just kidding.