Rudy Yagov
New member
- Mar 30, 2012
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I generally don't pay attention to ratings anyway. The opinions of other people don't affect my own.
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Welcome Back to Digital Pinball Fans - please read this first
DLC Schedule For The Next Six Months
- Thread starter PiN WiZ
- Start date
- Mar 17, 2012
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Both of which were included for historical reasons. Space Shuttle was "the machine that saved pinball" in the mid 80s. Yes, it's ridiculously easy, but pinball needed a table that was accessible to the masses at the time and Space Shuttle happened to fill that void right when it was needed.
Firepower and Black Knight introduced multiball to the masses. (There might have been a table that had it earlier - I can't remember - but these two tables are the ones the made it popular.) Black Knight derives additional importance from being the first table with a split-level playfield, although I personally detest BK - there is something about it that my brain refuses to understand and consequently I do very poorly on it.
Fungi
Active member
- Feb 20, 2012
- 4,888
- 2
My first intro to multiball was the EM version of Fireball. Once you release multiball with the zipper flippers closed, you feel all powerful. My problem with BK is that the multilevel effectively messes up the table by giving you only two little lightly targeted playfields. Trying to play both levels at the same time during mutiball is pretty cool tho'. OTOH, BK2K I love. Guess I just need flashing lights and a killer soundtrack to make me happy.
Finally, someone who admits what a crapfest BK FP SS and all the other pre-86 games are. Who cares how innovative they were back in the day? Humpty Dumpty was the first game with flippers. So what? It still sucks compared to today's games. I don't want to play now-mediocre tables just because they were innovative in their time, I want to play the hundreds of tables that have taken those innovations and improved on them a hundred-fold. I don't want to play the best tables from 1980, or the 50s, 60s, 70s, EM era, or early SS: I want the best tables PERIOD.
- Feb 19, 2012
- 8,144
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Well, that's fine....but there are a lot of people who still enjoy the older machines, myself included. Thankfully, Farsight is doing a nice job of bringing a variety of machines to TPA, so everyone can be happy.
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Actionball
Banned
- May 23, 2012
- 116
- 0
I will understand if BK makes it, of the weak sauce that was on WPHOF its better than the other 2 SS and FP, Sorceror and Gorgar I think are both great games, just tough as hell. The split playfield is the huge negative, its the same bad part about Pat Lawlor games, cutting the playfield in half.
Firepower could have been a better game with drop targets instead of stand ups as it was planned but the game just stinks. Space Shuttle might just be the most boring 4 hours I have ever spent in my life when I was doing the Williams Challenge. That "music" was dentist drill bad after about 2 hours, probably the worst part. It might have saved pinball once upon a time, but the american public has notoriously bad taste, witness the rebirth of NEON this year. Can't wait for them to reboot "Small Wonder" or "Alf" for the big screen
There are some killer games from that era, but SS and FP ain't them. High Speed anyone?
Matt McIrvin
New member
- Jun 5, 2012
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I actually like Firepower a lot; when I was playing PHoF:W a lot, the simplicity of it meant it gave me a lot of practice at basic skills. It's almost the minimal nontrivial multiball pinball. There's no real goal other than multiball, and once you get multiball there's nothing to it but... multiball. But I find the layout appealing. People have modded Firepower tables to have the originally planned drop targets in place of the standups, and the consensus seems to be that it just slows the game down a little.
The problem with Space Shuttle is that it hands out extra balls cheaply enough that it's actually possible for me to rack up enough of them to become bored, and I'm no wizard.
I do like the idea of these older games being offered alongside the Nineties/2000s DMD tables as a la carte DLC.
- Mar 17, 2012
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I'd rather have High Speed II than the first one. They're similar enough that FarSight won't do both.
Brian Clark
New member
- Feb 28, 2012
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I hope this isn't the case since they aren't the same game and both play very well.
Posts like this make me sad. Admits? As if people can't have valid reasons for liking the games? Do you have to have a negative reply everytime someone comments on a classic game? Black Knight has quite a bit going for it for the time it came out and plays extremely well. Timed Drop targets, bonus multipliers, 2 ball and 3 ball multiball, and the paths to the top area light for bonuses. Space Shuttle is one of the easier tables, but is fun to paly with the timed ramp and multiball. Firepower has a simple design with plenty of targets and a neat multiball. Humpty Dumpty, on the other hand hasn't aged as well and isn't as fun to play. It's a bit unfair to lump it in with 80s games, as well. It's your opinion, but I feel BK, SS, and Firepower, have aged better than many others and even play better than some newer tables. I don't want to see Farsight skipping them over becuase of some negative posts, especially when they have fans that like them for reasons other than just nostalsgia. Personally, I want the best tables period as well, and for me that means including both newer and older tables.
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dtown8532
New member
- Apr 10, 2012
- 1,685
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Yes, yes. I would love to get both High Speeds. They are similar yet different as well. Each have a unique feel. Especially in the ramps.
I, also, totally agree that some early SS tables have an awesome nostalgic factor to them and hold up quite well. Especially if you grew up in the Atari era with those sound effects. I just played Pharoah yesterday for the first time. It was one of Williams four double playfield tables along with BK, JL and SF. A lot of fun and, for me, just as cool as BK. Probably won't ever see it on TPA but at least I'll get BK.
Brian Clark
New member
- Feb 28, 2012
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I love older games. I have a lot of the older systems (though I don't have (NOT don't like, silly typo) Vectrex or Odyssey 2) and some old computers, as well. cool. What about Grand Lizard? That one looks interesting as well, and has System 11 hardware. I hope more of the double playfield games make it. Personally, I would like to see Black Knight released with another double playfield game, but I'm fine with it coming with Creature From the Black Lagoon, as well.
Rudy Yagov
New member
- Mar 30, 2012
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Grand Lizard is like an updated Black Knight. It plays pretty similar, but it's got more going on. My only real complaint is how ugly (art-wise) it is, but that's not a game-breaker. I like the lizard head at the top of the playfield, though.
http://mirror2.ipdb.org/images/1070/image-36.jpg
Brian Clark
New member
- Feb 28, 2012
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I wish they kept the art from the pre-production backglass. It looks much better than the art they used for the production version.
Rudy Yagov
New member
- Mar 30, 2012
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That does look better. I'm not sure why they would change that, other than to promote Python Anghelo.
Actionball
Banned
- May 23, 2012
- 116
- 0
Never saw that before. Way better, and that is probably your reason. Pretty sure they were still silk screening glass at that point and the pre-pro one is just beautiful, lots of colors/shading/detail = lots of cost.
I have nothing against games from back then, I like a lot of the Centaur/Xenon/Fathom era stuff, even things like Stern Meteor and flight 2000 just for how the backbox looks. The thing is there are better games to pick from the pre system 11 era than Space Shuttle and Firepower, I guess since they are built for WPHOF you might as well pull them along, but I question the why they were included to begin with. That crappy EM Jive Time for that matter....WTF.
Who else thinks that this was a budget and time sort of deal for FS at that point? I can see them working really hard getting the great games ready and then getting caught without time and money so to round it out they just took what was available at the local coin op place.
Remember, they had to round up a physical copy that was not all hashed, and whats easier to find intact from that era than games nobody played
Brian Clark
New member
- Feb 28, 2012
- 624
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Who else thinks that this was a budget and time sort of deal for FS at that point? I can see them working really hard getting the great games ready and then getting caught without time and money so to round it out they just took what was available at the local coin op place.
Remember, they had to round up a physical copy that was not all hashed, and whats easier to find intact from that era than games nobody played
Jive Time may have been a budget thing, but Firepower and Space Shuttle were very popular tables.
dtown8532
New member
- Apr 10, 2012
- 1,685
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I should have been more specific. When I said four tables I ment the four that got released around the same time to combat the video arcade craze of that time. Grand Lizard is decent. I have't played one in a while but I don't remember it making a big impression on me. Nontheless, I could always try it again.
Fuseball
New member
- May 26, 2012
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I think Bally, rather than Williams, had the edge on those early SS games, which is why we didn't see the best of them in PHOF. I like SS for the audio design. The sound fx on it are awesome for someone, lke me, who loves electronic sound generation. Grand Lizard sounds just as great and is a better game IMO though.
PHOF did not do BK justice. The simulation lacked all the sound and lighting drama and build up to multiball. It's also a game that benefits hugely from harder settings. Multiball is then far from trivial.
I think it is harder to convey what makes these games great in simulation than it is the newer games. They are a lot more physical, arguably requiring more skill. They really are about the satisfaction of making incredibly tricky shots, which is the essence of why we play pinball. The sound is richer and deeper (analog sound generation) than modern games, and the artwork is often stunning. As much as I love modern pinball, I still feel a more physical connection to the game I'm playing on early SS games... but that's very difficult to put across on something like TPA.
PHOF did not do BK justice. The simulation lacked all the sound and lighting drama and build up to multiball. It's also a game that benefits hugely from harder settings. Multiball is then far from trivial.
I think it is harder to convey what makes these games great in simulation than it is the newer games. They are a lot more physical, arguably requiring more skill. They really are about the satisfaction of making incredibly tricky shots, which is the essence of why we play pinball. The sound is richer and deeper (analog sound generation) than modern games, and the artwork is often stunning. As much as I love modern pinball, I still feel a more physical connection to the game I'm playing on early SS games... but that's very difficult to put across on something like TPA.
Kolchak357
Senior Pigeon
- May 31, 2012
- 8,102
- 2
I hope the next DLC or two include a pool theme, roller coaster theme, or race themed pin. Those were always some of my favorites. Now that June DLC has already been released (for some), does anyone want to update their predictions for the next 3 or 4 DLC's? I really enjoy reading what people hope & think will be next.