Doctor Who Kickstarter

[Rich Lehmann]

The Farsight managers could always pay their own costs you know. Nothing stopping them chipping in 50K, don't tell me nobody at Farsight made a load of money from TPA

I think they would be foolish not to. While Doctor Who may not be popular among current TPA customers it has a much larger base than pinball. I don't believe the majority of Zen Pinball buyers are traditional fans of pinball but fans of the tables subject matter such as Star Wars and Marvel Comics. A Doctor Who table may not sell well among existing TPA users but would attract a lot more first time buyers than tables like No Fear, Judge Dredd, Frankenstein or even Addams Family who than may purchase add-on tables. Farsight needs to stop milking their existing classic pinball customer base for more money and start attracting new customers.

 

[shutyertrap]

Is it the theme, the pin, or just Kickstarter fatigue?

I'd say kickstarter fatigue first and foremost. It plagued T2, and I think TAF only escaped it because of how beloved the table is. The pin itself nor the theme are really to blame, as both are likeable. I myself never saw a Doctor Who table till 2 years ago, so it completely escaped me back in the day, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

But yeah, fatigue. How many times can the same well be dipped into? It's why we asked the question of Barbie Ba-bomb how Zen gets away without kickstarters. The answer was to spread the costs into the budget of a lower priced table, but never changing the price on the customers. It's a hard nut to swallow where on the one hand the KS video states how long FarSight has been around, and on the other they ask for help.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

That's a fair point. If FS had said "tables are going to be $5.99 / $8.99 Pro from Season 5 onwards" there would've been grumbling sure but folks would've ponied up.

And then later they come out and say "here's Dr Who, we managed to negotiate this and get it done without a KS", the grumbling would certainly die down.

 

[DanBradford]

I'm sure Farsight must indeed have far sight and so must have an exit strategy. They can't go on forever making new old tables, or if they do then they can only inevitably decline in game title popularity and prestige as all the top 100 get used up and then the top 200. When even the worst-ever titles (XFiles etc) get released to ever-smaller purchase numbers, it will be time for them to finally move into the business of releasing Stern's new titles digitally in sync with the physical table releases.

But I digress. All you guys that pledge to FS Kickstarters are very generous but also really are suckers paying for FS to increase profits and for non-pledging people like me to get the game at the same time - you even double your pledges when things get close or unlikely, that's dedication. But by definition, Kickstarters are not for established companies to use to milk the goodwill of their customers and so to avoid all financial risk themselves; no, they're for start up companies who actually need the money. Surely you get this?

I buy all their tables without exception on my platform of choice, iOS, so I consider myself to be one of their good and loyal customers, right? Wrong. Many of you will read this and consider me to be disloyal for writing it.

I'd rather pay more per table. And I'd rather they fix old bugs than release new product. But mostly I just wish they'd abandon the pretence that they can't afford to pay their own start up costs, because they plainly can.

 

[Lostboy]

According to FS on their Kickstarter page,

"When we add up the costs of each required license and calculate what we’d have to charge for the table, we’ve concluded that Doctor Who is just not commercially viable."

Do they have the money to put towards it themselves? Sure they do. But they probably wouldn't make their money back without Kickstarter. They're not a charity. I wish there was a better way, but I don't hear any other realistic suggestions.

 

[Lostboy]

Elsewhere in this thread people suggested having tables made exclusively for kickstarter backers. As if it doesn't take man hours that will cost FarSight WAY more than the value of the kickstarter, by the way.

Maybe you have more inside info then I do, I don't know. But I disagree. I don't think a simple EM table with the only license being the manufacturer, would cost $50k+ in man hours. My guess is no more then $15k. Maybe I'm wrong. Yes, it would be money taken away from raising Kickstarter money, but I think it would add more and be worth it. I don't know. I haven't seen many other reward suggestions.

 

[jaredmorgs]

Maybe you have more inside info then I do, I don't know. But I disagree. I don't think a simple EM table with the only license being the manufacturer, would cost $50k+ in man hours. My guess is no more then $15k. Maybe I'm wrong. Yes, it would be money taken away from raising Kickstarter money, but I think it would add more and be worth it. I don't know. I haven't seen many other reward suggestions.

If you listen to BlahCade, I'll be pushing up the Backroom session from Monday tomorrow.

We talk at length about the kickstarter. The suggestion of locking in table exclusives to kickstarter entitlements is discussed and why it just won't happen.

 

[Lostboy]

Looking forward to hearing it!

 

[jrolson]

Don't think I will be donating for this one since I don't know who Doctor who is...

Also why do we still need kickstarters? Couldn't Farsight sell some of their tables to get the licensing costs at this point?

 

[jaredmorgs]

Don't think I will be donating for this one since I don't know who Doctor who is...

Also why do we still need kickstarters? Couldn't Farsight sell some of their tables to get the licensing costs at this point?

That is a reasonable suggestion.

Selling their tables proved to be a costly mistake last time. I doubt they will do that again.

They should consider using a portion of coin drops on their routed tables to partially fund their kickstarters in future.

 

[wolfson]

maybe 68 tables on Pinball Arcade and 60 tables on ZEN,and now we have the prospect of another 30 odd tables from Zaccaria and the Stern app which could be another 30 odd tables and Pro Pinball,makes me think do we need any kickstarter. looks like it has to be a great table like SIMPSONS.

 

[ScotchYeti]

This campaign shows that the whole excitement is only on the side of the pinball fans. From FS it looks more like a cold commercial calculation: it will either work or not.

Where is the commitment to preserve pinball now? Where is the extra step to motivate people to support this kickstarter?

As people have suggested, it might make more sense to increase the costs per table to finance the expensive ones. This would require a new contract with us fans where it's clear what the mission is. You won't buy just a game/table but support something beyond.

But what is FS's plan for the future? At the moment we can just guess. Digital pinball is a niche, let's face it, and caring for the fans and buyers should be a no-brainer. Otherwise the cash flow will stop rather sooner than later, especially now that most of the good tables are already available.

 

[vikingerik]

They should consider using a portion of coin drops on their routed tables to partially fund their kickstarters in future.

Well, presumably that coin drop revenue is already going somewhere. Putting that into a kickstarter just takes it out of whatever other pocket of Farsight's. If it makes any meaningful profit at all over the costs of servicing.

 

[vikingerik]

As people have suggested, it might make more sense to increase the costs per table to finance the expensive ones. This would require a new contract with us fans where it's clear what the mission is. You won't buy just a game/table but support something beyond.

Thing is, this already happened. $5 for one pinball table is already rather premium compared to the rest of the world of mobile games at free-to-play or 99 cents, or to Steam where full-sized games go on sale for $5 all the time. We're already paying that premium to support the past and future of pinball. I don't think Farsight can go much if any higher in the realities of the modern gaming market.

 

[Tann]

But by definition, Kickstarters are not for established companies to use to milk the goodwill of their customers and so to avoid all financial risk themselves; no, they're for start up companies who actually need the money. Surely you get this?

This.

I can understand the first Kickstarters FS launched (TZ, STTNG) when the game was is in youth, and FS needed a LOT of support.

But now, FS kickstarter campaign seems a little bit stingy coming from FS. And the way they manage it just seems to be a commercial purpose, and that they don't care if it fails.

And I'd rather they fix old bugs than release new product. But mostly I just wish they'd abandon the pretence that they can't afford to pay their own start up costs, because they plainly can.

Definitely yes. At 5 bucks the table (8 bucks for the Pro version), who can possibly believe that FS will lose money once the table is released?

And knowing that for people having already purchased the Season Pass, the table is in a way already semi-payed...

 

[Kolchak357]

My only concern is, if this fails, we can probably forget about seeing any heavily licensed pins in the future.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

My only concern is, if this fails, we can probably forget about seeing any heavily licensed pins in the future.

Or maybe FS will realize the game is finally up, and figure out a way to finance these things themselves.

If Season 5 had been $1 extra per table / $5 extra per season pass, say, I figure they'd have cleared the $72k they need for the license. (Or would they still be able to use the $17k left over from TAF?)

 

[Tron]

They picked the wrong table to kickstart.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

They picked the wrong table to kickstart.

We don't know why they picked Dr Who. The T2 KS came together very quickly, because they suddenly had the opportunity and a small window to get it done in. This one somehow feels similar. Maybe the right person at the BBC picked up the 'phone, and FS decided to act quickly just in case that person went away.

 

[The Night Flier]

Thing is, this already happened. $5 for one pinball table is already rather premium compared to the rest of the world of mobile games at free-to-play or 99 cents, or to Steam where full-sized games go on sale for $5 all the time. We're already paying that premium to support the past and future of pinball. I don't think Farsight can go much if any higher in the realities of the modern gaming market.

True.

Perhaps the Doctor Who fanbase is overrated.Or none of them are pinheads.