Flipper lag theory

[atari2600]

Have you set 'scene select' to game? Makes a massive difference.

thanks for the advise. this worked immensely

 

[iCub]

v1.06 (Euro) and slight flipper lag is still in evidence at 1080p (though the last couple of versions have shown improvement). Drop down to 720p though and I really can't detect it.

As I understand, the lighting pass uses 1 frame whether at 1080 or 720 so it cannot be the cause of the problem otherwise the lag would feel the same in both resolutions.

 

[smbhax]

FarSight only said there was a 1-frame delay at 1080. They didn't specifically say it *wasn't* there at 720, but I certainly can't detect it at 720, while it's pretty easy to see at 1080.

 

[iCub]

What would be nice is the inclusion of a 720p setting within the game, so that I don't have to change the PS3 settings down to it everytime I want to play TPA. Perhaps the extra CPU/GPU cycles that would be freed up playing 720p could be used for an anti aliasing pass...

 

[cants]

What would really be nice is no issue at all!

 

[Lord Boron]

It would be interesting to see a poll of PS3 user to see how many are affected by it and how many aren't. It might also give Farsight an idea of how big a problem it is.

 

[ER777]

It would be interesting to see a poll of PS3 user to see how many are affected by it and how many aren't. It might also give Farsight an idea of how big a problem it is.

That would be a good idea but the poll should be more than just Yes/No since it happens in greatly varying degrees, based on different TVs and output settings. It would have to have a range of options between none, very little, and a whole lot.

I for example have 1 TV* that its very noticeable on, 1 TV* that its just slightly noticeable on, and 1 TV (an old CRT I just pulled out to test TPA with) that has no lag whatsoever.

So I would vote Yes - some, but its not nearly as bad for me as a guy on my friends list who has just 1 TV* and tells me that TPA is unplayable for him (even after I advised him of the optimal settings for both his TV and PS3).

*Disclaimer: All of these TVs play PHoF and Zen games with zero lag so its not "just the TV"..

 

[brakel]

I went to the Midwest Gaming Classic and talked to the guys at the FarSight booth for quite a while. We were talking about bugs in general and PS3 specifically and one of the guys said that they had just figured out the cause and cure for the remaining lag issue on the PS3. He seemed pretty confident that this fix would be applied soon. I was pleased to hear this. The current lag I find very playable but I'd love for it to be removed completely.

 

[Mark W**a]

I went to the Midwest Gaming Classic and talked to the guys at the FarSight booth for quite a while. We were talking about bugs in general and PS3 specifically and one of the guys said that they had just figured out the cause and cure for the remaining lag issue on the PS3. He seemed pretty confident that this fix would be applied soon. I was pleased to hear this. The current lag I find very playable but I'd love for it to be removed completely.

Thank God.

I'm very happy to hear this and this cements my purchase of PS3 very soon.

 

[smbhax]

Not having to switch my PS3 down to 720 to get rid of that last frame of delay would be sweet. : D

 

[ER777]

I went to the Midwest Gaming Classic and talked to the guys at the FarSight booth for quite a while. We were talking about bugs in general and PS3 specifically and one of the guys said that they had just figured out the cause and cure for the remaining lag issue on the PS3. He seemed pretty confident that this fix would be applied soon. I was pleased to hear this. The current lag I find very playable but I'd love for it to be removed completely.

That's great news. Being able to play this game at 1080p again will be quite a treat at this point, it just looks so much better than 720p.

 

[Jan Duin]

I went to the Midwest Gaming Classic and talked to the guys at the FarSight booth for quite a while. We were talking about bugs in general and PS3 specifically and one of the guys said that they had just figured out the cause and cure for the remaining lag issue on the PS3. He seemed pretty confident that this fix would be applied soon. I was pleased to hear this. The current lag I find very playable but I'd love for it to be removed completely.

Happy to hear they've finally found a solution. The only way for me to play lag-free in 1080p on my Samsung TV is to change the PS3 source input from "Game" to "PC". This removes all lighting effects and makes the tables very dark.

 

[ROTTEN]

I went to the Midwest Gaming Classic and talked to the guys at the FarSight booth for quite a while. We were talking about bugs in general and PS3 specifically and one of the guys said that they had just figured out the cause and cure for the remaining lag issue on the PS3. He seemed pretty confident that this fix would be applied soon. I was pleased to hear this. The current lag I find very playable but I'd love for it to be removed completely.

I hope this is true! I really, really do

 

[Tann]

I went to the Midwest Gaming Classic and talked to the guys at the FarSight booth for quite a while. We were talking about bugs in general and PS3 specifically and one of the guys said that they had just figured out the cause and cure for the remaining lag issue on the PS3. He seemed pretty confident that this fix would be applied soon. I was pleased to hear this. The current lag I find very playable but I'd love for it to be removed completely.

What a good news!

And if they can do something about the lack of sound dynamics...

 

[Byte]

The announced fix that I can't wait for is that two-stage flipper problem; I find myself punching the buttons instead of lightly depressing them. Just did another round on the PS2 with my Logitech controller and it's soooo refreshing not to have to press the buttons almost INTO the controller.

Edit: this causes more problems for me than just the flipper lag. I'm glad FS realized that the PS3 controller does not have flipper buttons.

 

[goforthewall]

For me with the new PS3 update 2.09 I have no noticable flipper lag on 1080p (LG passive 3D TV) any longer. In fact it is so responsive to me that I didn't even go back to try if there was any (further) improvement in 720p. As for the two stage flipper problem: I am all for an on/off option, although I never seem to press the L1/R1 buttons lightly enough to see this "problem". I can always get the top flippers to register quite easily.

 

[Tann]

The current lag I find very playable but I'd love for it to be removed completely.

I played a lot of (short) games on the PS3 demo, switching continually between 720p and 1080i. My TV is not an HD TV, it's a CRT HD prepared (Philips 32PW9551, one of the very last CRT on the market, bought in 2006). It accepts HD source through HDMI (and component) cable, but downscale it.
The result is clean, image is sharp and colourful. In 2006 to 2009 approximatively, it blows most of low to middle price true HD screens. In 2013, it is clearly no more a good deal (excepts for the CRT image stability) . But I keep it!^^

So, my first statement was that TPA lags in 1080i (and it proves that the TPA lag is a software problem).

But now, I find controls more enjoyable in 1080i! Ramp combos are easier than in 720p. It's strange, but in 720p, the ball has no weight, aiming is just a pain.
In 1080i, once you're used to the little delay, controls are just perfect, for a very realistic experience.
The little grip that remains is when you have to shoot at the very last time, to aim an orbit or a side target for example, it happens regularly that the ball drains directly.

To conclude, I don't know what to think now (and the fact that my TV is a strange TV ). But one thing that's sure: I download the full game tonight!

 

[Tann]

Me again.^^

I've downloaded the full game and two DLC (Medieval Madness and Monster Bash). Now that I played all tables, I can say that lag is noticeable on TOTAN and Theatre of Magic, a little less on Ripley, and none on Black Hole. Whatever, it stays playable, but input lag is obvious when you compared to the DLC tables (it seems to affect only "core" tables).

 

[Tann]

It seems that input lag is currently addressed by Farsight, and will come as a patch in a (very) near future. I hope so.

I played an extensive time on each table I own (both in 720p and 1080i), and like I said in my previous post, input lag is more or less obvious, depending on the table played.
Here's my final statement concerning lag, on a scale from 0 (lag free) to 3 (unplayable):


---------------------
Core Tables
---------------------

- Theatre of Magic: 2

That's strange, but in 1080i, some shots become easier, like the captive ball shot. But keeping alive a multiball a long time, is very difficult due to lag. And I have to press buttons considerably earlier to achieve ramp combos.

- Tales of The Arabian Nights: 3

The worst. Loops are almost impossible to reach while aiming, multiball is a pain. In 1080i, my best score was around 30 millions, first game in 720p: 117 millions. Period.

- Ripley's Believe it or Not: 1

Lag is present, but the table remains playable. There's anyway a noticeable difference when I switch to 720p.

- Black Hole: 1

Almost 0. The difference is minimal, flips are responsive.

---------------------
DLC Tables
---------------------

- Medieval Madness: 2

Almost 3, due to the sudden ball accelaration after a Damsel or Peasant ramp. In 1080i, you lose the ball, in 720p, you can chain ramps. Definitely a better feeling in 720p (but graphics are ugly compared to 1080i).

- Bride of Pinbot: 0

Perhaps a very little delay, when you attempt the leftmost ramp. No big worries in 1080i and the table is gorgeous.

- Monster Bash: 0

I was surprised, but i noticed strictly no lag on this one. Perfect.

- Gorgar: 0

I played only two games on this one, maybe a little delay when coming to multiball. But hardly noticeable.

-----------------------

That's all. So, I play in 720p, but it's a pity, while the game is clearly more gorgeous in 1080 resolution (on my TV).

I really hope the fix will come with the next patch (end of the current month?), to fully enjoy the best pinball game to date.

Thanks for reading.

Tann.

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

You got a multiball on Gorgar?