Flipper lag theory

[Jeff Strong]

And he is so full of lies , the ps3 version is horrible lagging and the xbox version is not lagging at all..tested on sony bravia kdl40hx750 2012 tv

the ps3 version is unplayable...so not identical to the lag free xbox version

I have al tables for slim xbox and slim ps3..

it cant be identical lag wise so how is that so ???

Full of lies? Ha, that's too funny...why would I lie about a video game?

Don't know what to tell you, man. Both the 360 and PS3 versions play the same on my TV in terms of lag. I can take a video if you don't believe me.

However, I hope you realize that we have different TV's though and that apparently can make a big difference.

 

[ROTTEN]

Full of lies? Ha, that's too funny...why would I lie about a video game?

Don't know what to tell you, man. Both the 360 and PS3 versions play the same on my TV in terms of lag. I can take a video if you don't believe me.

However, I hope you realize that we have different TV's though and that apparently can make a big difference.

I'm not calling you a liar, but I'd love to see that video just so I can see for myself I've played PA on 3 different TV's and they all have lag. On 360 there is no lag whatsoever. It just baffles me that some have (or think they have) no lag.

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

I changed all my TV stuff off and it helped a little but not as noticeable as dropping to 720p.

 

[Mark W**a]

Full of lies? Ha, that's too funny...why would I lie about a video game?

Don't know what to tell you, man. Both the 360 and PS3 versions play the same on my TV in terms of lag. I can take a video if you don't believe me.

However, I hope you realize that we have different TV's though and that apparently can make a big difference.

Something must be wrong with your 360 then. Farsight themselves have confirmed lag and said it's because of the lighting engine.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Something must be wrong with your 360 then. Farsight themselves have confirmed lag and said it's because of the lighting engine.

They said one frame of lag, which really shouldn't be noticeable. I certainly can't notice it, and no one else who's played on my PS3 has either. One of my friends who has TPA on the 360 was just over a couple days ago playing on my PS3 and he didn't notice any lag either.

It's not like I'm the only guy who isn't getting any noticeable lag. If everyone was, then I wouldn't think they'd be selling much DLC on the PS3, plus there would be a constant outcry on Facebook.

Anyway, maybe I'm just lucky, but I still hope they can fix it ASAP because it has to be very frustrating for those who experience it.

 

[superballs]

They've confirmed a single frame of lag which is 16ms.

To most people this will be either imperceivable or nearly so.

For reference. At approx 6 feet when you're having a conversation with someone 6 feet away from you, the latency between seeing their lips move and hearing the sounds is 5ms, and is imperceivable. The brain just puts it together.

Now, we're talking about a lag that's 3 times as long, howerver, when monitoring sound while recording, it's widely considered that up to 25ms is acceptable.

Now, I don't have a PS3 and even if i did, i only have a 720p television. I have to think that something like pinball would make that kind of lag more noticeable when the ball is travelling quickly but if it's moving slowly, there would be almost no perception of the lag.

If it's "extremely noticable" then there's something more than the single frame lighting lag.

 

[shutyertrap]

I'm on a CRT RPTV that only does 1080i for HD. I have never noticed a lag, and there is not difference switching back and forth between Zen and TPA. (Well, actually Zen drops down to 480p since I can't do 720, but lag wise there is nothing) My TV does zero post processing, so the ONLY lag I'd be experiencing is that 1 frame lag FS has put in for the HDR lighting processing.

It is widely known that LCD and Plasmas have varying degrees of lag, and ways they try and compensate for it. All flat panel TVs are not created equal. You may have turned off every bit of post processing you think your TV has, and STILL experience lag, because that is the nature of that set. You also need to make sure your PS3 doesn't have all sorts of processing turned on too. Your Xbox does not have the lag because it processes and sends the signal differently.

I think it's time for some people to acknowledge the possibility that their TV is the problem, and FS can't possibly program for every set that is out there or has been for the past 10 years. Take your PS3 into a Best Buy, ask to hook it up to their wall of TVs and put on TPA. I'd put money on the fact that you'd find varying degrees of lag between all manner of sets.

Whenever I read a TV review over on HomeTheater.com and they're talking about active glasses 3D, ghosting and cross talk are always brought up. There are some sets where it is bad on a particular title, yet others handle it fine. The funniest recent one is with Sony TVs, where using the high end glasses they had all sorts of issues, but using the cheapo ones made for the Playstation TV, they had a phenomenal experience. There are so many factors involved that can be causing the problems, but they are not by any means universal.

Hell, my TV has a huge overscan issue, to the point that if you were to look at Elvira and the Party Monsters on mine, the score display is literally cut in half by the top of my TV. This is entirely on me and my set. Could FarSight put in what other games have, where you can shrink the size of the display, thus negating this issue? Sure they could, but why should they really concern themselves with my 12 year old HD set? It's your TV that is the problem.

 

[ER777]

I think it's time for some people to acknowledge the possibility that their TV is the problem, and FS can't possibly program for every set that is out there or has been for the past 10 years.

I don't agree with this statement at all. In zero cases I've heard has it been the TV alone that is the problem, as evidenced by the fact that the same TVs can play PHoF and Zen with no input lag whatsoever. This isn't a general TV performance issue, its an issue the TVs have with one particular display source - TPA. Both parts need to be considered together, since neither alone has a problem, but together they both do.

Saying that the problem is just the TV because TPA plays fine on a different TV is just as unfair as saying that TPA is a bad game because other games play better on that TV.

Also keep in mind that Farsight does have the ability to program in a way that works perfectly for every TV, they did it in PHoF (and Zen has done it in their games). They chose to do lighting/display in a different way in TPA to make it look better, but that's had unexpected negative impacts to gameplay for some people (a large enough number that it shouldn't be dismissed). So now its a matter of whether they can get the best of both worlds out of TPA for all setups or if they give up and say its just never going to play right for a bunch of PS3 owners with the "wrong" TVs - most of which will just give up on TPA rather than the TV.

 

[superballs]

I don't agree with this statement at all. In zero cases I've heard has it been the TV alone that is the problem, as evidenced by the fact that the same TVs can play PHoF and Zen with no input lag whatsoever. This isn't a general TV performance issue, its an issue the TVs have with one particular display source - TPA. Both parts need to be considered together, since neither alone has a problem, but together they both do.

Saying that the problem is just the TV because TPA plays fine on a different TV is just as unfair as saying that TPA is a bad game because other games play better on that TV.

Also keep in mind that Farsight does have the ability to program in a way that works perfectly for every TV, they did it in PHoF (and Zen has done it in their games). They chose to do lighting/display in a different way in TPA to make it look better, but that's had unexpected negative impacts to gameplay for some people (a large enough number that it shouldn't be dismissed). So now its a matter of whether they can get the best of both worlds out of TPA for all setups or if they give up and say its just never going to play right for a bunch of PS3 owners with the "wrong" TVs - most of which will just give up on TPA rather than the TV.

There is validity to this.

Basically just cut out the enhanced lighting and make it look simply like the XBOX version.
There will probably be some backlash but at least the game should be playable.

Besides, while the PS3 is a behemoth with texture fill rate, the 360 is the machine with the better lighting/shader architecture. I don't think the PS3 should be the system with the enhanced lighting/shading. Sharper texures? Yes for sure, but not lighting.

 

[smbhax]

They said a long time back that they were planning to update the 360 version to the fancier lighting. Of course then they lost their publisher and couldn't release more updates for the 360.

 

[superballs]

They said a long time back that they were planning to update the 360 version to the fancier lighting. Of course then they lost their publisher and couldn't release more updates for the 360.

I'm just hoping that the same thing doesn't happen.

Even though the 360 is better with lighting/shadows. I'd hate to see a performance bottleneck introduced. However, I'd like to see the improved lighting implemented.

 

[ragingpoodle]

I have an upper end Sony TV a 60 inch NX720 and I have a LOT of flipper lag, I've tried all settings, etc.

The 360 version plays excellent. I've bought all the DLC for the PS3 because I have a Vita, otherwise the lag is so bad I would have expected a refund. I really hope they can fix it and if it's just the lighting that gives me the lag, give me an option to turn "advanced lighting on/off", I would rather it be a little less pretty and PLAYABLE!!

 

[Daniel Osborne]

Just wrote a huge report on my first play of the ps3 version, but it wouldn't post.! Arghhh. Lost it now.

 

[Daniel Osborne]

Firstly, the ps3 version looks lovely, nicer lighting and ball reflections, and small details like the green lighting inside the trunk on tom. Obviously it's further advanced than the current xbox version, so I expected that, the Dmd was far clearer, but I'm not sure if it looks more like a real one or not, but it's much clearer.
Secondly, the controller. Sorry guys, but that controller is hideous. The biggest problem is that the stick used to nudge is too low to flick quickly, the triggers feel crap too. Maybe I'm just used to the xbox controller, but that controller is just hideous in my opinion.
Thirdly, laaaaag. Yuk.
I sold my pioneer krp500A plasma screen today and part of the deal was to deliver the screen and set it up. I asked him to dl tpa, and he did. It was running the same settings as my xbox was on this tv. Game mode and game control preference on.
There was still a noticeable lag.
It wasn't disastrous, but it certainly wasn't as crisp as the xbox version.
I hope that the updated and improved lighting doesn't bring lag to the 360 party. It would be a big shame.
So, I really enjoyed the ps3 version, but the lag and controller definitely spoil it somewhat, most of you will like the controller, so the main issue is still the lag. I hope it gets fixed.

 

[Byte]

Thanks for posting that. Relevant comparisons that can be made are side-by-side comparisons between Xbox360 and PS3 on the same TV, with the same settings, and the same connection (with for 1080p would be HDMI, but for 720p could be component as well).

Another interesting comparison is of course the DualShock3 vs. other controllers, preferably wired, of course on the same setup, to see what difference that makes.

 

[ROTTEN]

I've been messing around with 1080p settings and setups lately trying to get the best gameplay out of this game with minimal lag. I tried game mode many times which doesn't do much at all really except make the game look really dull. I've tried using my controller plugged in with my 10 foot usb cable .... I thought it helped at first .... turned out to be a placebo. I've used various HDMI cables with no improvement.

The only thing that helps is going to 720p. I realized that the only table I ever use for testing is Arabian Nights so I switched to different tables and found they were very crisp and responsive in 720p. I have all of the tables, but AN has always been my fav.

A little test for you all - Try tables with great flipper response like BK in 720p concentrating on the flippers and then go to AN in 1080p. The lag in AN is absolutely horrible. I'm actually enjoying this game in 720p using other tables besides AN. Can anyone else confirm this? I can't play Arabian nights anymore .... lol The flippers are god awful.

 

[Daniel Osborne]

I did write a much better report, but like I say, it wouldn't post, so I had to log out and back again, and then use my phones keyboard to see what it remembered!
Really looking forward to both versions getting all their updates and problems sorted out.

 

[rom]

I play on my old fat PS3 (very first generation but it still works fine)

I had a very annoying (really unplayable) lag when I had it connected to a Philips TV LCD FULL HD 47PFL5603D/12.

Now that I am using a cheap LG W2361V Full-HD TFT-Monitor. Result: NO LAG AT ALL!!!

 

[shutyertrap]

Are you using the lower (R2/L2) triggers, or the upper shoulder buttons (R1/L1)? I know if you are used to a 360 controller where the lower triggers are more commonly used it can be a bit of a switch going to a DualShock where the upper buttons are more commonly used, but those are waaaay better for TPA. I've had a PS controller in my hand for far too many years, and as such I've learned how to hold the thing loosely. Unlike a 360 controller, a finger on each shoulder button is an exercise in getting a hand cramp!

 

[Rafie]

Firstly, the ps3 version looks lovely, nicer lighting and ball reflections, and small details like the green lighting inside the trunk on tom. Obviously it's further advanced than the current xbox version, so I expected that, the Dmd was far clearer, but I'm not sure if it looks more like a real one or not, but it's much clearer.
Secondly, the controller. Sorry guys, but that controller is hideous. The biggest problem is that the stick used to nudge is too low to flick quickly, the triggers feel crap too. Maybe I'm just used to the xbox controller, but that controller is just hideous in my opinion.
Thirdly, laaaaag. Yuk.
I sold my pioneer krp500A plasma screen today and part of the deal was to deliver the screen and set it up. I asked him to dl tpa, and he did. It was running the same settings as my xbox was on this tv. Game mode and game control preference on.
There was still a noticeable lag.
It wasn't disastrous, but it certainly wasn't as crisp as the xbox version.
I hope that the updated and improved lighting doesn't bring lag to the 360 party. It would be a big shame.
So, I really enjoyed the ps3 version, but the lag and controller definitely spoil it somewhat, most of you will like the controller, so the main issue is still the lag. I hope it gets fixed.

I pretty much agree with everything except the controller part. I believe the 360 controller is the one that is...well not as good as the PS3.

I have experienced slight stutters on the 360 version, so its not at all perfect like everyone is making it out to be. Yes the PS3 version has its problems, but I like the way it looks way better than the 360. I'll admit that the 360 version is better and plays better, but the PS3 isn't far behind and it looks better than the 360 version. I believe once the 360 version has the "looks" of the PS3 version, then the 360 one will be the ultimate version to play on. I'm actually rooting for the Wii U version to be honest.

Once FS fixes that flipper lag (which I absolutely LOATHE!!) then the PS3 will be the system to play on. Note...I play on all devices except Android. So I have no bias here.