If FS is limited to the number of B/W tables, why waste them?

[dtown8532]

If you are really interested in the history of it I suggest you listen to the awesome Topcast podcasts, interviews with just about everyone who was involved around that time. Great listening.

I second that. The Topcast interviews are fantastic. Especially the Steve and Mark Ritchie, Pat Lawlor and Python Angelo ones. Also, on the bonus disc for Tilt there's a good interview with Larry Demar which mentions the Bally acquisition.

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

When FS runs through thier limit of B/W games they can always renegotiate for more and they most likely will so they're not really WASTING anything.

 

[Kevlar]

I second that. The Topcast interviews are fantastic. Especially the Steve and Mark Ritchie, Pat Lawlor and Python Angelo ones. Also, on the bonus disc for Tilt there's a good interview with Larry Demar which mentions the Bally acquisition.

I've been listening to a few of them a 2nd time and today I was listening to Steve Ritchie talk about Firepower while playing the table on my ipad

 

[Jeff Strong]

I've been listening to a few of them a 2nd time and today I was listening to Steve Ritchie talk about Firepower while playing the table on my ipad

Too bad we can't listen and play on the same ipad.

 

[Butterkins]

FS can only do a limited number of B/W tables, then they have to renegotiate.

Is this confirmed?

 

[Sumez]

I doubt "renegotiating" involves much more than FS sending new docs to WMS for them both to sign, going on with the agreement ensuring more money to both parts. Standard paperwork procedure. If FS had any sort of feeling that the number of Bally/Williams tables they are able to produce would ever be limited to the 40 they currently have, they would probably be spending a lot more time on the IPDB top 30 than they are right now.

As I've stated many times before, though, I think it's exciting to see a lot of tables that aren't exclusively the most popular tables that you always see and hear about.

 

[Hinph]

Yeah, I like variety. Variety is good.

As far as negotiating for other tables... any reason to believe this should be a problem? No other developers are interested in making pinball recreations for profit right now. Why wouldn't Bally/WMS want the revenue?

I wonder how much longer Farsight will continue with this project...

 

[Bowflex]

This was confirmed by bobby king I believe. No idea where the interview or q&a is where he mentioned it. Details were not very specific. I would guess they probably have about 50-75 tables they can do.

As far as digitizing tables, it has been mentioned that they purchase the tables for a few reasons. First is the work they do to the actual unit (complete restoration to make the table as close as possible to how it played after factory completion). Even if you are making it restored, most people would have an issue with you messing that much with it, removing mods, etc. they also need the tables long term to tweak physics, design issues, etc. not easy to fix if you keep having to travel and/or transport equipment.

 

[Mike Reitmeyer]

Just to clarify what others have said.

We need the real table here for mulitple reasons. 1st, they tear it apart so the artists can model each part and get good photo references for texturing. Then one of our producers uses the table to write up the instructions, while I use the table to figure out how everything works. Unfortunatly the manuals aren't clear enough so I need to refer to the real table sometimes. (In the case of AFM, some of the switches are incorrectly labled in the manual)

Then finally it's used during the tuning phase to make sure our game plays like the real one. This entire process takes a few weeks, so we can't travel to a table on site and get everything we need.

 

[Worf]

Heck, if we can't find a Centaur, perhaps we'd have to settle for having it shipped from the UK to the US for half a year or so.

 

[karl]

Thanks Mike. I am wondering if you would consider doing it the old way (not buying the table) if it was the only option for you to digitize a table that you really want to do, say pinball Circus as an example. It would probably take a couple of trips (or more) and a lot of extra work but could be worth it in some rare occasions. (way down the road of course) Btw. It is really appreciated that you do all that you do to make the tables as real as possible. The difference between the old pinball hall of fame tables (done with trips taking pictures) and the new TPA tabels (where you own the tables) is a huge improvement

 

[Fuseball]

Heck, if we can't find a Centaur, perhaps we'd have to settle for having it shipped from the UK to the US for half a year or so.

I'd be surprised if they couldn't find one more locally that they could at least borrow (mainland US for a start!). The cost, risk and timescales make shipping across the Atlantic a less appealing proposition. Even if they needed to hire one for six months, that would still work out cheaper than the shipping costs.

I mean, I'm open to suggestions and the prospect of being without my Centaur for a while isn't an issue. It's more the safety of the game in transit that concerns me. I have no worries about the good care FS would take of it while in their possession. I strip down my pinballs to the wood when I workshop them, so that side of things isn't a worry either.

 

[Clawhammer]

If FS is still looking for a Centaur...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bally-CENTA...023?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a8505d47

It's definitely overpriced; Centaur seems to be a game that is particularly subject to horrible price inflation. Nonetheless, it's in good shape and the ebay seller will ship.

 

[Fuseball]

That looks to be in slightly better condition than mine as well - similar wear around the bonus inserts though. Overpriced, yes... but not as bad as a couple I've seen.

I was looking out for a Fathom recently and the only one I could find, the owner wanted £2,500 for it. It had a new playfield but it was in bits and required a complete rebuild!

 

[Nik Barbour]

Thanks Mike. I am wondering if you would consider doing it the old way (not buying the table) if it was the only option for you to digitize a table that you really want to do, say pinball Circus as an example. It would probably take a couple of trips (or more) and a lot of extra work but could be worth it in some rare occasions. (way down the road of course) Btw. It is really appreciated that you do all that you do to make the tables as real as possible. The difference between the old pinball hall of fame tables (done with trips taking pictures) and the new TPA tabels (where you own the tables) is a huge improvement

Couldn't the tables be created from CAD or technical drawings?

I use Autodesk Inventor CAD software @ work, and recently while messing about with 'dynamic simulation' , knocked up a test pinball table with working flippers directly off the inserted jpg file. It looked and worked fairly well.

If you're in contact with the manufacturers for licencing reasons, could you also have access to the technical drawings?

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

Couldn't the tables be created from CAD or technical drawings?

I use Autodesk Inventor CAD software @ work, and recently while messing about with 'dynamic simulation' , knocked up a test pinball table with working flippers directly off the inserted jpg file. It looked and worked fairly well.

If you're in contact with the manufacturers for licencing reasons, could you also have access to the technical drawings?

That might work for modeling of the physical table, but it won't help with the electronic sequences of operation, the ROM emulation, or anything involving the DMD.

 

[Fuseball]

That might work for modeling of the physical table, but it won't help with the electronic sequences of operation, the ROM emulation, or anything involving the DMD.

In the case of Centaur, it's not going to be emulated anyway. You could use VP/PinMAME as a reference for the rules and timings. Of course, it's not as good as having the real thing to hand but may work as a plan B.

I personally think that the hardest part would be getting high resolution scans of the playfield art.

 

[Mike Reitmeyer]

It would be up to managment whether or not we would travel to a site to do a table.

We've asked for the CAD and other artwork for the tables and haven't had much luck with that. It would help drastically.

I'm sure we'll figure something out.

 

[Nik Barbour]

I personally think that the hardest part would be getting high resolution scans of the playfield art.

Surely the manufacturers must have either images, or originals of the Artwork unless it was a one off prototype.
Anything that's manufactured in any quantity by a company, is documented, ip protected where applicable and therefore normally reproducible, unless lost in the passage of take overs and time.

Getting access to it is another matter though I guess.

 

[shutyertrap]

One other reason FS needs the physical table in their possession...so it can be one of the tables in their eventual Bar-Cade!

I swear I'm more excited over the prospect of that than anything. Even if it's years off away from happening.

Please?