Bug Leaderboard exploit discussion

[phreaker47]

We've suspected all along that the bugs/exploits were most likely coming from Android/IOS. What's a little surprising to me though is I suspected someone was using a cheat utility of some kind... funny that it's actually an inherent bug in the game itself.

 

[SlamCitySkates]

Ive used the word Hack previously because I simply don't know how they are done, so have always assumed they were deliberate. This thread is quite eye-opening.

Ive also found the leaderboards quite frustrating to use.
(1) A lot of my scores don't register - Im starting to wonder if I could find them on the board of another table!
(2) I trust the PS3 scores, but not the mobile scores and get frustrated that I cant filter the leaderboard to PS3 only.
(3) If my scores aren't registering then how many other people's aren't? I might think Ive got a Top 20 score and then a voice at the back of my head reminds me that there must be several other people whose scores aren't registering
(4) Some of my legit scores have been inflated by a piece of luck with the game mechanic. For instance, if I get a game on RBION where one of the balls goes missing during a multiball - I can carry on scoring in multiball mode, collecting as many jackpots as I can with just one ball on the table, and then call for the attendant when I lose that ball. This can have a significant effect on the score.

For the reasons above I rarely look at the leaderboards anymore. To realise this is a game glitch just amazes me more.

 

[brakel]

Ive used the word Hack previously because I simply don't know how they are done, so have always assumed they were deliberate. This thread is quite eye-opening.

Ive also found the leaderboards quite frustrating to use.
(1) A lot of my scores don't register - Im starting to wonder if I could find them on the board of another table!
(2) I trust the PS3 scores, but not the mobile scores and get frustrated that I cant filter the leaderboard to PS3 only.
(3) If my scores aren't registering then how many other people's aren't? I might think Ive got a Top 20 score and then a voice at the back of my head reminds me that there must be several other people whose scores aren't registering
(4) Some of my legit scores have been inflated by a piece of luck with the game mechanic. For instance, if I get a game on RBION where one of the balls goes missing during a multiball - I can carry on scoring in multiball mode, collecting as many jackpots as I can with just one ball on the table, and then call for the attendant when I lose that ball. This can have a significant effect on the score.

For the reasons above I rarely look at the leaderboards anymore. To realise this is a game glitch just amazes me more.

1) is it just that you're looking right away? The scores don't show up on the leader board for a while. I've had some that took about 30 minutes to get posted.
4) I thought that when you called the attendant on a lost ball that it would come back and say that there were no stuck balls. In my experience this always wound up with a game that could not be completed.

 

[sotie]

So did this issue get fixed in the latest update?

 

[Clawhammer]

So did this issue get fixed in the latest update?

My guess would be no. 1,457,563,900 on Centaur seems a wee bit suspect...

 

[Gord Lacey]

A reminder to NOT post the steps to cheat on the forum.

 

[DeeEff]

A reminder to NOT post the steps to cheat on the forum.

Thanks for the quick action, Gord - that was scary.

 

[9u1d0]

The glitch should be fixed. Leaderboards must be reset.
I think its Android only....

 

[9u1d0]

Thanks for the quick action, Gord - that was scary.

It is not scary. I think hundreds of people must know this. It is no fun like this. Every score on the LB can be a fraud.

 

[DeeEff]

The glitch should be fixed.

Agreed.

Leaderboards must be reset.

I think the obvious cheats should be deleted but not the entire leaderboard; I could care less if someone cheated to get #2, but I do care what the legitimate high score is.

I think its Android only....

I sure ain't gonna try it and mess up my high scores!

 

[9u1d0]

I trust my own scores and definitely dont want to mess them up. But the leaderboards are there to compare with other players, right?
Why having leaderboards if every score can be a fraud? It is no fun to me anymore.

 

[Luobo]

So did this issue get fixed in the latest update?

Don't think I need to tell you by now, but no.

The glitch should be fixed. Leaderboards must be reset.
I think its Android only....

iPhone as well, or so I've heard.

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

separate leaderboards would solve some of the problem for PS3 users not having to see hacks at #1 position or mobile scores from different tables mixed in with others, but if it doesn't affect "game PLAY" it's a non-issue to FS.

 

[Luobo]

My guess would be no. 1,457,563,900 on Centaur seems a wee bit suspect...

Nejsem Okurkaa is an obvious glitch abuser. He's (?) got top position on several tables now.

I think the obvious cheats should be deleted but not the entire leaderboard; I could care less if someone cheated to get #2, but I do care what the legitimate high score is.

There is no way to tell which scores are legit and which ones are not. A smart cheater will make a fake score look legit. The leaderboard has lost its legitimacy and therefore its purpose. Fix the bug and reset it. Reset it periodically, like once every season or so.

 

[Krellan]

Perhaps TPA should take a strategy from the world of first-person shooters.

Record the player input of the entire game, as well as the seed values of any random number generators that the game uses.

Then, the entire game can be replayed later on, at will, by anybody else, since all necessary state to replay the game is included in the recording file. If the player used any cheating/bugs/exploits, they will become obvious.

I'm not sure what random number generators are used by the emulated pinball ROM, but it should be deterministic. I do know that a lot of the games have credit dots (error indicators) on their scoreboard, and when opening the coin door in Pro Mode, the only error is "Time And Date Not Set" which is harmless. So, the game must not use current time as a RNG seed.

The storage/network requirements for this would be pretty steep, though, so perhaps save the game locally, and only require tranmission up to the server if it's a worldwide top 100 score (or something like that).

 

[smbhax]

Fix the bug and reset it. Reset it periodically, like once every season or so.

I do think the Mobile scores need to be cleared out once the bug is fixed. I wouldn't like to see scores reset just for the heck of it, though.

 

[brakel]

Perhaps TPA should take a strategy from the world of first-person shooters.

Record the player input of the entire game, as well as the seed values of any random number generators that the game uses.

Then, the entire game can be replayed later on, at will, by anybody else, since all necessary state to replay the game is included in the recording file. If the player used any cheating/bugs/exploits, they will become obvious.

I'm not sure what random number generators are used by the emulated pinball ROM, but it should be deterministic. I do know that a lot of the games have credit dots (error indicators) on their scoreboard, and when opening the coin door in Pro Mode, the only error is "Time And Date Not Set" which is harmless. So, the game must not use current time as a RNG seed.

The storage/network requirements for this would be pretty steep, though, so perhaps save the game locally, and only require tranmission up to the server if it's a worldwide top 100 score (or something like that).

Mike R. has already said that capturing game play requires too many resources. I think he was playing around with capturing 8 seconds of game play for debug purposes.

 

[9u1d0]

I do think the Mobile scores need to be cleared out once the bug is fixed. I wouldn't like to see scores reset just for the heck of it, though.

If it is Android only, why clear the IOS scores?

 

[Luobo]

If it is Android only, why clear the IOS scores?

But it is not just an Android issue, there have been reports of the same bug on iPhone.

 

[MontanaFrank]

But it is not just an Android issue, there have been reports of the same bug on iPhone.

Now they are running a mobile tournament. I don't understand, you think they would have know of your thread Luobo and that the leaderboards are still wide open for hacking.