Pinball Arcade vs. Williams Pinball Hall of Fame ??

[Mark W**a]

Gamestop is OOS. Off to eBay I go....


HDMI to TV. Optical cable to receiver (shouldn't affect this). Samsung LN55B650 TV. Help!


I know, right? Although playing on the iPhone drives me nuts because my thumbs cover part of the screen. Anyone have an iPad? Is TPA on the iPad full screen like the iPhone, or is there a place to hit the flippers that doesn't cover part of the table??

By the way, I love your Xenon avatar. Brings back some great long-forgotten memories!

Gamestop is OOS. Off to eBay I go....

HDMI to TV. Optical cable to receiver (shouldn't affect this). Samsung LN55B650 TV. Help!

Ok we own pretty much the exact same TV. What are the chances, eh?

Step #1 : Buy this: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=vga+cable+360&_sacat=0&_from=R40

I wouldn't have you buy a 5 dollar cable (10 with shipping?) if I wasn't extremely confident that this is what you need. Trust me on this, you will thank me as this cable not only has beautiful image but it eliminates lag. Don't listen to what anyone says about VGA, this is the only way to eliminate lag on the set completely, and the image quality is perfect. And it has a slot for optical so you're good to go. This is what I use, with our TV it's the only solution that completely eliminates lag.


Step #2:
In the mean time, I went ahead and got the settings that you can tweak while you wait, that will reduce lag:

Menu
Picture
Advanced Settings:

Black Tone = Off
Dynamic Contrast = Off (this one is very important, even when you get you're VGA, to keep off)
LED Motion Plus = Off (this mode is crap in general, makes films look like day time TV dramas)

stuff like Edge Enhancement and Expert Pattern (no idea what this is), might as well shut these off too, but I don't think it matters.

Picture Options:
Auto motion plus : off
Digital Noise filter: off
Mpeg Noise filter : off

Basically, if you see a setting, and you can turn it to "off", then do so.

Oh one more thing, make sure your Xbox is set to 1920X1080 (1080P). You do this in the dashboard, in the last tab choose settings, display, and select the last option. This way the 360 will display in native 1080P and it's important but you probably already had this set.

Now that's with HDMI. And it most likely still won't be lag free. Yeah, I know. Once you get the VGA cable all you have to do is turn off Dynamic Contrast, you don't screw with any other settings, and you're good to go 100% lag free.

 

[Mark W**a]

I think your TV is a touch newer than mine. I remember getting the TV back in early 2011. Just got a Kinect at the time and Kinect has lag as it is, with HDMI and factory settings it was virtually unplayable. Street Fighter was also a nightmare, input lag offline was not fun. I almost considered returning the TV until I discovered VGA.

 

[SoundsGood]

Ok we own pretty much the exact same TV. What are the chances, eh?

Small world. Or popular TV.

Thanks very much for the detailed help, much appreciated. I'm not familiar with the recommended cable(s) but I'll give it a shot. I might try those settings too -- but it took so long to get things "just right" I might hold off on that for right now.

I just double-checked the display settings on the Xbox -- yep, 1080p.

Thanks again!

Oh, one more question: Where can I find a list of ALL tables currently available for the Xbox version of TPA?

 

[SoundsGood]

Step #1 : Buy this: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=vga+cable+360&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Is there a specific one on this page you suggest, or should I just pick one? Also, what does this thing "do" exactly? Why or how does it help?

 

[Mark W**a]

Is there a specific one on this page you suggest, or should I just pick one? Also, what does this thing "do" exactly? Why or how does it help?

The tables are:
Arabian Nights
Theatre of Magic
Black Hole
Ripleys Believe it or Not
Bride of Pinbot
Medieval Madness
Cirqus Voiltaire
Fun House
Monster Bash
Gorgar


Doesn't matter which cable you get. I use Microsoft's but my friend has a generic one and it's fine.

As far as the TV settings, turning that stuff off it's not going to mess with the color or contrast or anything like that. Also the TV will have different settings for each mode so like, if you set up the Xbox one way it won't effect your TV on HDMI 1, or your Blu Ray on HDMI 2 etc. if you follow what I'm saying.

This is my "educated guess" as to why the cable works. TV sets have post processing effects. Most TV's have what's called "Game Mode", which basically turns all of these off. Some TV's don't have game mode, and others game mode doesn't eliminate the lag anyway. My theory on why VGA seems to bypass all the post processing is because it's an analog signal, though the reason I call it a theory is because this doesn't work with Component cables, which are also an analog signal.

Post processing is different than say, adjusting the contrast, brightness, or color of the TV. It's an added effect where the TV actually "processes" the image and does it's thing. So like Dynamic Contrast for instance, makes the image darker and the colors more saturated. It's a great effect for movies, and since we're talking processing time in the miliseconds, you'd never notice delay when watching a blu ray (which only refreshes at 24 frames per second anyway). However with games, especially ones that require fast reaction and run at 60 frames per second, you feel even the slightest changes. 2 frames of input lag, that's 1/30th of a second, is enough to piss off most fighting game players, or throw off your pinball game.

Here's an easy test to prove what I'm saying. Plug you're 360 into you're PC monitor, using you're HDMI cable. There should be no lag whatsoever. That's cause monitors don't have all that post processing mumbo jumbo (99% of them anyway). Same reason I can use HDMI on Asus Monitors we use for our gaming setups, and they don't lag.

Why VGA seems to be this miracle cure for TV lag, like I said I have theories but I simply don't know, and I'm too lazy to really dig into information and find out why. And I've had arguments with people telling me VGA is old, VGA is "worse" because it's "analog", yet these same people use optical which is also analog. It's stupid, and like I said I'm not the most technical dude when it comes to knowledge, but I know from real world experience what works and what doesn't, what looks good and what doesn't. And for "outdated" tech it's kinda funny cause this computer I'm typing on is a Windows 7 machine purchased last year 1080P monitor and look at that, it's hooked in via VGA

 

[Mark W**a]

Actually don't quote me on the whole "no lag when HDMI to PC monitor". I can safely assume that's the case, but I have never actually tried it myself. I base this assumption off the fact Asus monitors don't lag via HDMI, and those are just glorified PC monitors that function as TV's. For all I know there may be a very important reason PC's still use VGA hookups as standard.

 

[SoundsGood]

The tables are:
Arabian Nights
Theatre of Magic
Black Hole
Ripleys Believe it or Not
Bride of Pinbot
Medieval Madness
Cirqus Voiltaire
Fun House
Monster Bash
Gorgar

I was hoping for Black Knight and Firepower (two of my fav's) so I guess I'll still need to buy the Williams PHOF disc.

Doesn't matter which cable you get. I use Microsoft's but my friend has a generic one and it's fine.

I read somewhere when looking into this that the non-Microsoft cables can cause ghosting. Do you know if this is true?

 

[SoundsGood]

Actually don't quote me on the whole "no lag when HDMI to PC monitor". I can safely assume that's the case, but I have never actually tried it myself.

Are you SERIOUS!!??

I just spent the last hour getting behind my TV to unhook everything, then moved everything to my PC, then re-hooked everything up, for NOTHING!!??

Nah, I'm just kiddin'.

 

[Fungi]

Is TPA on the iPad full screen like the iPhone, or is there a place to hit the flippers that doesn't cover part of the table??

I play on my iPad exlusively now. The screen fills up like the iPhone, but it's so much bigger that even tho' your thumbs still cover the picture, it's at a much smaller ratio now. Playing in portrait, your thumbs just block a tiny bit of the table, not even the important parts. Playing in landscape and your thumbs just cover the floor of the arcade.

Btw, for more info on The Pinball Arcade itself, check here,
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showt...arSight-Studios-Concerning-The-Pinball-Arcade

 

[SoundsGood]

The screen fills up like the iPhone, but it's so much bigger that even tho' your thumbs still cover the picture, it's at a much smaller ratio now. Playing in portrait, your thumbs just block a tiny bit of the table, not even the important parts. Playing in landscape and your thumbs just cover the floor of the arcade.

Gotcha. That makes sense, thanks. Gotta get me an iPad one of these days...

Btw, for more info on The Pinball Arcade itself, check here,
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showt...arSight-Studios-Concerning-The-Pinball-Arcade

Oh my. Is it just me, or is the Xbox version the stepchild of the family? Yikes.

Ya know what? I'm tempted to just buy the Williams Hall of Fame disc and wait until the Xbox version is a bit more cooked!

 

[Daniel Osborne]

Isn't Williams pinball available on games on demand too?

 

[Nik Barbour]

Isn't Williams pinball available on games on demand too?

Yes - It's £15
Don't think you can use MS points for some reason - no idea why.
(I got a load of MS points ready for TPA dlc, and now have nothing to spend them on!)

 

[Fungi]

Is it just me, or is the Xbox version the stepchild of the family? Yikes.

FarSight had a setback recently when their publisher, Crave, went belly up. Since Microsoft insists on game studios having a publisher, FarSight has had to put a hold XBLA releases for the time being.

 

[VenomPlug]

Ya know what? I'm tempted to just buy the Williams Hall of Fame disc and wait until the Xbox version is a bit more cooked!

Good thinking, WHoF is a good deal since there are problems with finding a new publisher for TPA Xbox360 version. Where TPA is better, graphics (obviously) and it plays little faster and little more realistic. WHoF has this up to 4 players tournament mode i enjoy a lot, and of course..tables! (Pin*Bot, Firepower, Whirlwind! ). Good game and pretty easy to find for cheap.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Actually don't quote me on the whole "no lag when HDMI to PC monitor". I can safely assume that's the case, but I have never actually tried it myself. I base this assumption off the fact Asus monitors don't lag via HDMI, and those are just glorified PC monitors that function as TV's. For all I know there may be a very important reason PC's still use VGA hookups as standard.

Actually, DVI has been the standard for PCs for several years now. Most video cards don't even come with VGA any more, but they do still usually come with a VGA to DVI adapter.

But yeah, you're right about no lag on PC monitors (unless it's an older/crappy model), because like you said, they don't have all the extra post-processing features that TV's do, and PC gamers are really particular about low response times. You can always see the response time in the monitor's specs, but most TVs don't give you that info because it's usually quite a bit higher unless you turn on game mode, disable the other bells and whistles, etc.

 

[Mark W**a]

Gotcha. That makes sense, thanks. Gotta get me an iPad one of these days...


Oh my. Is it just me, or is the Xbox version the stepchild of the family? Yikes.

Ya know what? I'm tempted to just buy the Williams Hall of Fame disc and wait until the Xbox version is a bit more cooked!

Oh no, don't get it twisted. Xbox is the big Daddy, the #1 son of pinball arcade. Best version by far. It's just, well you're new here so let me explain. In short terms - Microsoft sucks, and the publisher of this title went belly up. So the system is now way behind in dlc. The good news is you have 8 brand new tables (to you) to keep you busy. By the time you get bored the new dlc will (hopefully ) be out.

As for the iPad, unfortunately I do not recommend that version or any mobile version period, unless you have no other option, or as a companion platform. Touch controls suck and you can only nudge in 2 directions, and it's very difficult to nudge since u have to move your hands. Not to mention downgraded visuals, and a smaller screen. Still it's great to have, I'm playing on my iPhone right now, but it's no substitute for console.

Also want to mention if you have a powerful pc the upcoming steam release is going to replace Xbox as the definitive version.

 

[Mark W**a]

Sounds Good I'd love to sell you my Williams disc, and I'd only charge u 20 bucks (it's around 40 on eBay).

However I HIGHLY recommend you just get the current Xbox Pinball arcade tables instead. Williams on 360 is the same as Wii except for 3 additional tables: Arabian Nights, Medival Madness, and No Good Gofers. Arabian and Madness are both on pinball arcade, and are FAR superior to the Williams versions. No Good Gofers isn't out on Xbox yet, but Ripleys Believe it or Not is arguably the better table (same designer and similar style too). And you also get Theatre of Magic, which is just flat out amazing. And that's just the base pack that costs 10 bucks.

If you still want the Williams disc though just pm me.

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

I got a PS3 copy I'd part with NO SCRATCHES! $20 got my trophies

 

[Sinistar]

I got a PS3 copy I'd part with NO SCRATCHES! $20 got my trophies

I'd like to take that off your hands you take PAYPAL?

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

PM me no I dont.